LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

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dickcheneyx
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by dickcheneyx » 23 Jan 2023, 11:20

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 22:51
I've been hired to work on 240Hz OLEDs as of late, so I'll chime in a bit, as much as my NDAs allow me to do so.

My 240Hz OLED is a bit too bright at maximum brightness, so I adjust it down abit.

I'm used to ~150nit when I'm doing Visual Studio or documents/articles anyway.

Now when gaming, I like the HDR-like feel of perfect blacks. It can be more fun gaming on a ~300-nit OLED with perfect blacks (in a dark room) than a ~600+-nit LCD with grey blacks. The black reference amplifies the brightness feel of the brights when you're gaming indoors without sun shining in a window. LCD is superior if you've got a glass house obviously, but I can confirm these new LG OLEDs is too bright for my eyes when I'm just Visual Studioing at night.

Also, download "Better ClearType Tuner" app to make text look MUCH better on these new OLEDs. Tweak according to preference.

I've always run desktop LCDs at 30% brightness when doing computer text, so that's well within the OLED brightness range. When I am gaming, I like a brighter profile for the HDR-like behaviors.

Replaying old games (like "Bioshock Infinite") is a totally new videogame on an OLED, with the 240fps-at-240Hz LightBoost-quality motion with NO strobing needed; brute framerate-based motion blur reduction is the future.

Everyone knows I wish it was 1000fps 1000Hz hurry up already (ETA 2030?) but today, 240Hz OLEDs already have less motion blur than a non-strobed 360Hz LCD. That's big; the best strobeless blur reduction technology consumers can buy today for brute framerate-based motion blur reduction at near-zero GtG and the only blur seen is purely MPRT only.

Thanks to darn near zero GtG numbers, OLED's are virtually perfect followers of Blur Busters Law -- much more accurately than LCD.

Interesting, how do you feel the 240hz Oled compares to a 240/360 Strobed as far as motion clarity goes ?

Thanks

daviddave1
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by daviddave1 » 23 Jan 2023, 18:20

dickcheneyx wrote:
23 Jan 2023, 11:20
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 22:51
I've been hired to work on 240Hz OLEDs as of late, so I'll chime in a bit, as much as my NDAs allow me to do so.

My 240Hz OLED is a bit too bright at maximum brightness, so I adjust it down abit.

I'm used to ~150nit when I'm doing Visual Studio or documents/articles anyway.

Now when gaming, I like the HDR-like feel of perfect blacks. It can be more fun gaming on a ~300-nit OLED with perfect blacks (in a dark room) than a ~600+-nit LCD with grey blacks. The black reference amplifies the brightness feel of the brights when you're gaming indoors without sun shining in a window. LCD is superior if you've got a glass house obviously, but I can confirm these new LG OLEDs is too bright for my eyes when I'm just Visual Studioing at night.

Also, download "Better ClearType Tuner" app to make text look MUCH better on these new OLEDs. Tweak according to preference.

I've always run desktop LCDs at 30% brightness when doing computer text, so that's well within the OLED brightness range. When I am gaming, I like a brighter profile for the HDR-like behaviors.

Replaying old games (like "Bioshock Infinite") is a totally new videogame on an OLED, with the 240fps-at-240Hz LightBoost-quality motion with NO strobing needed; brute framerate-based motion blur reduction is the future.

Everyone knows I wish it was 1000fps 1000Hz hurry up already (ETA 2030?) but today, 240Hz OLEDs already have less motion blur than a non-strobed 360Hz LCD. That's big; the best strobeless blur reduction technology consumers can buy today for brute framerate-based motion blur reduction at near-zero GtG and the only blur seen is purely MPRT only.

Thanks to darn near zero GtG numbers, OLED's are virtually perfect followers of Blur Busters Law -- much more accurately than LCD.

Interesting, how do you feel the 240hz Oled compares to a 240/360 Strobed as far as motion clarity goes ?

Thanks
I am most curious about the brightness. Motion clarity is unmatched from my understanding.

dickcheneyx
Posts: 4
Joined: 30 Jun 2014, 19:56

Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by dickcheneyx » 23 Jan 2023, 19:30

daviddave1 wrote:
23 Jan 2023, 18:20
dickcheneyx wrote:
23 Jan 2023, 11:20
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Jan 2023, 22:51
I've been hired to work on 240Hz OLEDs as of late, so I'll chime in a bit, as much as my NDAs allow me to do so.

My 240Hz OLED is a bit too bright at maximum brightness, so I adjust it down abit.

I'm used to ~150nit when I'm doing Visual Studio or documents/articles anyway.

Now when gaming, I like the HDR-like feel of perfect blacks. It can be more fun gaming on a ~300-nit OLED with perfect blacks (in a dark room) than a ~600+-nit LCD with grey blacks. The black reference amplifies the brightness feel of the brights when you're gaming indoors without sun shining in a window. LCD is superior if you've got a glass house obviously, but I can confirm these new LG OLEDs is too bright for my eyes when I'm just Visual Studioing at night.

Also, download "Better ClearType Tuner" app to make text look MUCH better on these new OLEDs. Tweak according to preference.

I've always run desktop LCDs at 30% brightness when doing computer text, so that's well within the OLED brightness range. When I am gaming, I like a brighter profile for the HDR-like behaviors.

Replaying old games (like "Bioshock Infinite") is a totally new videogame on an OLED, with the 240fps-at-240Hz LightBoost-quality motion with NO strobing needed; brute framerate-based motion blur reduction is the future.

Everyone knows I wish it was 1000fps 1000Hz hurry up already (ETA 2030?) but today, 240Hz OLEDs already have less motion blur than a non-strobed 360Hz LCD. That's big; the best strobeless blur reduction technology consumers can buy today for brute framerate-based motion blur reduction at near-zero GtG and the only blur seen is purely MPRT only.

Thanks to darn near zero GtG numbers, OLED's are virtually perfect followers of Blur Busters Law -- much more accurately than LCD.

Interesting, how do you feel the 240hz Oled compares to a 240/360 Strobed as far as motion clarity goes ?

Thanks
I am most curious about the brightness. Motion clarity is unmatched from my understanding.
I'm also curious to brightness but most people seem to mention non-strobed when talking about motion clarity. I really would like to buy this monitor to upgrade my XL2546 as i tried a LG C2 and the blur was giving me a headache lol.

Grasshopper24
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by Grasshopper24 » 23 Jan 2023, 23:26

Interesting review here that mentions downsides that not many other reviews are talking about. I’ll be sticking with TN/IPS until OLED matures a bit for monitor usage.

I’ve learned (the hard way) to not buy the first iteration of new technology. Always wait for the revisions and updates.

https://youtu.be/1BmcHU0rwoU

daviddave1
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by daviddave1 » 24 Jan 2023, 07:28

I am very curious what Notty_PT take is on the new generation 240HZ OLED 1440P monitors. Dming him right now with a request to join this topic.

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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 25 Jan 2023, 00:44

dickcheneyx wrote:
23 Jan 2023, 11:20
Interesting, how do you feel the 240hz Oled compares to a 240/360 Strobed as far as motion clarity goes ?
Strobed LCD is still clearer than current OLED.

If you need millisecond-league MPRTs or less, that's still the path to go if you can live with the compromises (e.g. you deem brightness loss and flicker acceptable, etc).

There's also a multiplier factor in preference where you might prefer 4ms MPRT in brute framerate-based motion blur reduction (240fps 240Hz OLED) than 2ms MPRT in old strobing (e.g. LightBoost). But you might noticeably prefer the motion clarity of 0.5ms MPRT of good strobing implementations, if motion clarity is more important and can live with the somewhat dimmer CRT-era brightnesses than LCD-era brightnesses.

Best I've seen in everyday use is probably Oculus Quest 2 VR headset -- one of the best strobing implementations, despite certain rabbit hole flaws;
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KALK4L
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by KALK4L » 26 Jan 2023, 19:11

Are the LG and Asus PG27AQDM monitors going to have the same level of brightness? I'm concerned because the LG seems to have a mediocre level of brightness for use in a well lit room.

GammaLyrae
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by GammaLyrae » 27 Jan 2023, 19:06

Really wondering what's coming re: these OLED monitors. The main page saying the chief has been working with vendors suggests one of them may have a good BFI mode, but his posts elsewhere suggesting that a 240hz OLED combined with a software bfi solution could make for a good 3d monitor replacement makes it easier to infer that his work with them doesn't involve bfi....

Guess we'll find out eventually.

Dream for me would be a 1080p or 1440p oled w/ a 240hz refresh rate, vrr support, blur busters 2.0 certified (so the same granularity of control as the XG2431) combined with the hardware calibration functionality of an LG TV or monitor. Nothing else would be able to match it in terms of SDR color reproduction, motion clarity, or contrast. Not necessarily married to LGs WRGB panel design, I play in light controlled environments so QDOLED would work fine for me, too.

I'd be willing to drop VRR even since as I recall the Gamma shift you see with fluctuating framerates exists somewhere between "it'll happen on all OLED panels until there's a significant hardware change" and "it actually happens on all panels but lcds are just that slow so you never notice it" (I never got confirmation on which one it was), so I'm much happier capping to the nearest average refresh for bfi and dealing with the jitter...

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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by Chief Blur Buster » Yesterday, 16:22

GammaLyrae wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 19:06
Really wondering what's coming re: these OLED monitors. The main page saying the chief has been working with vendors suggests one of them may have a good BFI mode, but his posts elsewhere suggesting that a 240hz OLED combined with a software bfi solution could make for a good 3d monitor replacement makes it easier to infer that his work with them doesn't involve bfi....
The first OLEDs won't have hardware BFI, but they are very software BFI friendly. Even when BFI becomes available, they won't (for a long while) be available at the granularities made available to XG2431 due to limitations on how brief the pulse can be on some backplane designs.

I'm currently working to press for progress behind the scenes. There is very limited control of how Blur Busters can influence a giant panel factory to modify the backplanes, but I am working hard to move the needle at least a little. Much like I toppled a few reluctant dominoes for 60Hz single-strobe support on LCDs. Nothing new yet to announce about BFI on OLEDs, except I wouldn't mind more people to begin commenting about lack of BFI to make the vendors realize there's demand.

I should caveat this, that there's somewhat of a biasing factor of roughly ~2x (depends on your eyes or person), where one can prefer 4ms MPRT GtG=virtually 0 (aka OLED) over 2ms MPRT GtG>0 (aka LCD) because the brightness and colors make the slightly-higher-MPRT motion look "cleaner" to eyes. Beyond a certain point, a very bright DyAc at 0.5ms is still quite noticeably clearer than these OLEDs, but you still have your LCD cons too (e.g. blacks). So it's still pick-a-preference.

For now, the path with OLEDs is brute framerate-based motion blur reduction (which OLEDs excel at), rather than flicker-based motion blur reduction (which is good for retro content), but both needs to be made available. I'm a fan of seeing ~500-1000 Hz OLEDs come out by end of the decade, and 1000fps zero-latency reprojection-based frame generation getting built into major engines such as UE5 (doable with today's GPU technology now!) -- then demand for strobing will fall quite a bit except for retro content and video content, ala 60 years of retro 60fps 60Hz content.

However, even within specific OLED backplane limitations, I'd still like to see 60Hz 4ms MPRT and 120Hz 4ms MPRT strobing support added to 240Hz OLEDs as soon as possible. But there's no good news yet on BFI.

Give the high Hz desktop OLED monitor market more time to mature -- it's still squeakingly flipping brand new -- remember the first true-120Hz LCD computer monitors of 2009 didn't even have strobing (ASUS VG236H and Samsung 2233rz).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter
To support Blur Busters - see Multiple Lists of Best Gaming Monitors
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
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thatoneguy
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Re: LG 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE

Post by thatoneguy » Today, 12:52

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
Yesterday, 16:22
then demand for strobing will fall quite a bit except for retro content and video content, ala 60 years of retro 60fps 60Hz content.

However, even within specific OLED backplane limitations, I'd still like to see 60Hz 4ms MPRT and 120Hz 4ms MPRT strobing support added to 240Hz OLEDs as soon as possible. But there's no good news yet on BFI.
Don't forget also legacy 50hz content. Then there's also VRR + Strobing to be considered(I ask mainly to support retro game console/arcade hardware which all ran at odd non-standard non-NTSC/PAL refresh rates which CRTs generally could display with no problem).

I guess there's only so much you can divulge due to NDAs etc. but what about the whole Temporal HLSL/Phosophor Simulation solution? Could that be embedded into backplanes themselves?
From what I remember from your posts, even 240hz granularity would lessen the flicker significantly when combined with a rolling scan method. Maybe this kind of method would make it a bit easier to convince manufacturers, but I could be wrong.

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