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BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Falkentyne » 03 Aug 2017, 20:29

frankfurt wrote:So apparently DyAc is always enabled and cannot be disabled in the OSD menu. Also there is no other option for any kind of Blur Reduction.
This really makes me question the whole point of this monitor. If you could just get the XL2540 and have the option to enable/disable Blur Reduction then why would you get the XL2546 which forces you to have Blur Reduction (DyAc) on at all times? Obviously there must be a difference between Blur Reduction and DyAc. Still waiting for someone to investigate this... Btw it took them over half a year to make DyAc work on this 240Hz panel.
Also if this is the new top model of their 240Hz esports lineup then tournaments and pro players should be getting this monitor eventually. Many, if not almost all, pro players (at least in CSGO) always play with Blur Reduction disabled. I'm guessing that's because of the lower brightness, added input lag and the strobing potentially causing headaches and so on (I remember when they had pro players talk about how good the new flicker free monitors were a while back. Now they're forcing it back onto them?).
So basically all of these players will be forced to play with these things that they don't like?

I would really like to know the answers to these questions.

1. What is the difference between BenQ Blur Reduction (XL2540) and DyAc (XL2546)?
2. Is this difference worth the extra money and not being able to turn it off?
3. Is there any way to turn DyAc off via Software? And if so, would that just turn it into an XL2540 or is there any other difference between the two monitors?
4. Why does BenQ/Zowie not market Blur Reduction on the XL2540 but they market DyAc on the XL2546?


Edit: I'm stupid. The XL2540 doesn't have Blur Reduction. That pretty much answers half of my questions.


Frankfurt:
dyac can be disabled in the service menu. This goes for the XL2546, XL2540 and XL2735 as well.
On the XL2540 it's called "blur reduction."

To open the service menu you need to power on the monitor holding down button #4 then pressing the power button and releasing button #4 when you get a screen. then button #4 (or 5) enters the service menu.

The factory menu (with the overdrive gain) settings is button #3+#4 held down together while powering on. Then button 5 should enter the factory menu.

The XL2540 DOES have blur reduction but it's OFF by default, instead of on. Service menu lets you enable it.

What I *REALLY* need to know is, if you DISABLE DyAc in the service menu, does Freesync (or adaptive sync) become available in the AMD Radeon Settings panel....the scaler supports it.
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby frankfurt » 03 Aug 2017, 23:12

Falkentyne wrote:
frankfurt wrote:So apparently DyAc is always enabled and cannot be disabled in the OSD menu. Also there is no other option for any kind of Blur Reduction.
This really makes me question the whole point of this monitor. If you could just get the XL2540 and have the option to enable/disable Blur Reduction then why would you get the XL2546 which forces you to have Blur Reduction (DyAc) on at all times? Obviously there must be a difference between Blur Reduction and DyAc. Still waiting for someone to investigate this... Btw it took them over half a year to make DyAc work on this 240Hz panel.
Also if this is the new top model of their 240Hz esports lineup then tournaments and pro players should be getting this monitor eventually. Many, if not almost all, pro players (at least in CSGO) always play with Blur Reduction disabled. I'm guessing that's because of the lower brightness, added input lag and the strobing potentially causing headaches and so on (I remember when they had pro players talk about how good the new flicker free monitors were a while back. Now they're forcing it back onto them?).
So basically all of these players will be forced to play with these things that they don't like?

I would really like to know the answers to these questions.

1. What is the difference between BenQ Blur Reduction (XL2540) and DyAc (XL2546)?
2. Is this difference worth the extra money and not being able to turn it off?
3. Is there any way to turn DyAc off via Software? And if so, would that just turn it into an XL2540 or is there any other difference between the two monitors?
4. Why does BenQ/Zowie not market Blur Reduction on the XL2540 but they market DyAc on the XL2546?


Edit: I'm stupid. The XL2540 doesn't have Blur Reduction. That pretty much answers half of my questions.


Frankfurt:
dyac can be disabled in the service menu. This goes for the XL2546, XL2540 and XL2735 as well.
On the XL2540 it's called "blur reduction."

To open the service menu you need to power on the monitor holding down button #4 then pressing the power button and releasing button #4 when you get a screen. then button #4 (or 5) enters the service menu.

The factory menu (with the overdrive gain) settings is button #3+#4 held down together while powering on. Then button 5 should enter the factory menu.

The XL2540 DOES have blur reduction but it's OFF by default, instead of on. Service menu lets you enable it.

What I *REALLY* need to know is, if you DISABLE DyAc in the service menu, does Freesync (or adaptive sync) become available in the AMD Radeon Settings panel....the scaler supports it.



Oh wow okay I didn't know that, thanks!

And yes that would definitely be interesting to know. I hate how some people have already had this monitor for months and all this information is still not out there :/

I would also be interested to know what the Blur Reduction on the XL2540 is like and why they decided to turn it off by default and hide it from regular consumers. And why they did the opposite for the XL2546 :D
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Falkentyne » 04 Aug 2017, 09:40

Do you own the XL2546 and an AMD video card?

And it's because the XL2540 supports adaptive sync. And adaptive sync cannot be used at the same time as blur reduction. (when blur reduction was in the OSD, on the XL2730, which supported freesync, enabling freesync turned off blur reduction).
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby frankfurt » 05 Aug 2017, 06:18

Falkentyne wrote:Do you own the XL2546 and an AMD video card?

And it's because the XL2540 supports adaptive sync. And adaptive sync cannot be used at the same time as blur reduction. (when blur reduction was in the OSD, on the XL2730, which supported freesync, enabling freesync turned off blur reduction).



Ahh okay gotcha. I don't own one no. Still not sure wether I should go for the 2540 or 2546. I would love to test them side by side. My only use for it is professional CSGO.
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby lexlazootin » 05 Aug 2017, 08:51

Get a Free-Sync/G-Sync, way better then BR :P
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 05 Aug 2017, 20:17

lexlazootin wrote:Get a Free-Sync/G-Sync, way better then BR :P

I know you added the smiley, but -- readers should know it's not a blanket statement. GSYNC/FreeSync certainly looks better for many situations but there are also situations where ULMB can look way better. It all depends on the game you play, and how well your monitor does blur reduction too.

Remember, readers! Blur Busters exists because of strobe backlights

ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur) can look good or bad depending on situation.

We understand how to fix quality of ULMB motion:

Remember, ULMB looks much better with VSYNC ON than VSYNC OFF... The problem is ULMB needs frame rates perfectly matched to refresh rates to look best. (Ultra high frame rates during VSYNC OFF can come close). ULMB amplifies visibility of microstutters, so you need to fix microstutters through other techniques (than VRR) to make ULMB look good.

ULMB will look crappy with low & fluctuating frame rates.
ULMB will look great with frame rates perfectly synchronized frame rates.

For certain things, ULMB actually can reverse tables & look better than GSYNC/FreeSync in certain games where (1) You have lots of panning effects (2) Input lag is not important, (3) You have perfectly matched frame rate & refresh rate & strobe rate, e.g. 120 fps @ 120 Hz.

Basically ULMB works best in games where there's lots of smooth-panning. Like playing a solo RTS game that runs at ultra high frame rates. Or playing a solo platformer game with fast horizontal scrolling. (Non-first-person Sonic Hedgehog style games). Then it looks "super duper TestUFO smooth" in those games (the arcade fluidity effect, the Nintendo butter-smooth panning, zero-microstutter, etc). With zero motion blur (less motion blur than 240fps @ 240Hz non-strobed). To make that happen, ULMB looking better than everything else, you do need frame rates perfectly matched & synchronized to strobe rates where the game scrolls as smoothly as http://www.testufo.com/photo (sole window, continuously green "READY" message in Chrome browser, no stutters detected). In order for ULMB to look sweet to your eyes. Alternatively, ultra-high frame rates (e.g. >500fps) can eliminate most of the amplified-microstutter effects you often see when you turn on ULMB during lower/fluctuating frame rates.

So ULMB is a tradeoff.
If you're playing competitively, perhaps for eSports money, you may prefer VSYNC OFF
If you're playing highly fluctuating frame rates, you may prefer GSYNC/FreeSync
If you're playing high-framerate games where you're getting lots of panning effects, you may prefer ULMB + VSYNC ON

Examples where ULMB looks better than GSYNC/FreeSync (at least during VSYNC ON)
- Fast horizontal-scrolling platformer games (e.g. Sonic Hedgehog type games where scrolling is as fast/smooth as TestUFO or faster)
- That hook "rollercoaster" in Bioshock Infinite
- High-speed low-altitude helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3
- Certain wipeout style racing games / Star Wars Pod Racer games (ultra-high-speed scrolling) -- unfortunately some newer ones scroll a lot more slowly or stutter lots -- so ULMB doesn't always look good.

Tricks to make ULMB smoother
- Turn on VSYNC ON.
- Get a faster GPU.
- Try a lower Hz. ULMB perfect 85fps @ 85Hz looks much, much smoother than fluctuating 100-119fps @ 120Hz ULMB
- If you absolutely need use VSYNC OFF with ULMB, try aiming at very high frame rates. e.g. Half Life 2 running at >500fps. The high framerates greatly reduces microstutters (harmonics between refresh rate & frame rate).
- Lower detail levels
- If the fast-panning is mouse-initiated, then improve your mouse sensor accuracy (better mouse, better mousepad, high poll rate). For example in FPS, you can tell how bad your mouse is if mouse left/right is not as fluid smooth as keyboard strafe left/right. Only the very best in mouse sensors can (rarely) match fluidity in both cases.
- Use frame capping at fractionally above Hz to fix VSYNC ON input lag

How to eliminate approximately ~75% of VSYNC ON input lag
Due to input lag of VSYNC ON, that can be a problem, but when playing solo, it isn't as important, and there are also ultra-low-lag VSYNC ON tricks that can eliminate something like ~75% of VSYNC ON input lag -- including frame-capping at one-hundredth-Hz below refresh rate (works in certain games). This frame capping technique during VSYNC ON eliminates buffer pressure, and removes 1-2 frames of lag. This can help you tolerate the ULMB needing VSYNC ON to look beautifully microstutter-free.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
To support Blur Busters: Official List of Best Gaming Monitors | G-SYNC | FreeSync | Ultrawide
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby frankfurt » 06 Aug 2017, 02:29

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
lexlazootin wrote:Get a Free-Sync/G-Sync, way better then BR :P

I know you added the smiley, but -- readers should know it's not a blanket statement. GSYNC/FreeSync certainly looks better for many situations but there are also situations where ULMB can look way better. It all depends on the game you play, and how well your monitor does blur reduction too.

Remember, readers! Blur Busters exists because of strobe backlights

ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur) can look good or bad depending on situation.

We understand how to fix quality of ULMB motion:

Remember, ULMB looks much better with VSYNC ON than VSYNC OFF... The problem is ULMB needs frame rates perfectly matched to refresh rates to look best. (Ultra high frame rates during VSYNC OFF can come close). ULMB amplifies visibility of microstutters, so you need to fix microstutters through other techniques (than VRR) to make ULMB look good.

ULMB will look crappy with low & fluctuating frame rates.
ULMB will look great with frame rates perfectly synchronized frame rates.

For certain things, ULMB actually can reverse tables & look better than GSYNC/FreeSync in certain games where (1) You have lots of panning effects (2) Input lag is not important, (3) You have perfectly matched frame rate & refresh rate & strobe rate, e.g. 120 fps @ 120 Hz.

Basically ULMB works best in games where there's lots of smooth-panning. Like playing a solo RTS game that runs at ultra high frame rates. Or playing a solo platformer game with fast horizontal scrolling. (Non-first-person Sonic Hedgehog style games). Then it looks "super duper TestUFO smooth" in those games (the arcade fluidity effect, the Nintendo butter-smooth panning, zero-microstutter, etc). With zero motion blur (less motion blur than 240fps @ 240Hz non-strobed). To make that happen, ULMB looking better than everything else, you do need frame rates perfectly matched & synchronized to strobe rates where the game scrolls as smoothly as http://www.testufo.com/photo (sole window, continuously green "READY" message in Chrome browser, no stutters detected). In order for ULMB to look sweet to your eyes. Alternatively, ultra-high frame rates (e.g. >500fps) can eliminate most of the amplified-microstutter effects you often see when you turn on ULMB during lower/fluctuating frame rates.

So ULMB is a tradeoff.
If you're playing competitively, perhaps for eSports money, you may prefer VSYNC OFF
If you're playing highly fluctuating frame rates, you may prefer GSYNC/FreeSync
If you're playing high-framerate games where you're getting lots of panning effects, you may prefer ULMB + VSYNC ON

Examples where ULMB looks better than GSYNC/FreeSync (at least during VSYNC ON)
- Fast horizontal-scrolling platformer games (e.g. Sonic Hedgehog type games where scrolling is as fast/smooth as TestUFO or faster)
- That hook "rollercoaster" in Bioshock Infinite
- High-speed low-altitude helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3
- Certain wipeout style racing games / Star Wars Pod Racer games (ultra-high-speed scrolling) -- unfortunately some newer ones scroll a lot more slowly or stutter lots -- so ULMB doesn't always look good.

Tricks to make ULMB smoother
- Turn on VSYNC ON.
- Get a faster GPU.
- Try a lower Hz. ULMB perfect 85fps @ 85Hz looks much, much smoother than fluctuating 100-119fps @ 120Hz ULMB
- If you absolutely need use VSYNC OFF with ULMB, try aiming at very high frame rates. e.g. Half Life 2 running at >500fps. The high framerates greatly reduces microstutters (harmonics between refresh rate & frame rate).
- Lower detail levels
- If the fast-panning is mouse-initiated, then improve your mouse sensor accuracy (better mouse, better mousepad, high poll rate). For example in FPS, you can tell how bad your mouse is if mouse left/right is not as fluid smooth as keyboard strafe left/right. Only the very best in mouse sensors can (rarely) match fluidity in both cases.
- Use frame capping at fractionally above Hz to fix VSYNC ON input lag

How to eliminate approximately ~75% of VSYNC ON input lag
Due to input lag of VSYNC ON, that can be a problem, but when playing solo, it isn't as important, and there are also ultra-low-lag VSYNC ON tricks that can eliminate something like ~75% of VSYNC ON input lag -- including frame-capping at one-hundredth-Hz below refresh rate (works in certain games). This frame capping technique during VSYNC ON eliminates buffer pressure, and removes 1-2 frames of lag. This can help you tolerate the ULMB needing VSYNC ON to look beautifully microstutter-free.


Thanks for this write-up, great information. You're a beast!
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Aug 2017, 18:13

frankfurt wrote:Thanks for this write-up, great information. You're a beast!

You are welcome!

I should also add something I forgot: Sometimes strobing creates poor color quality (bad colors on older LightBoost monitors). That said, some monitors does a great job of ULMB (and very brightly) with almost no loss of color quality or unacceptable dimness. Poor quality can also be a good reason to avoid LightBoost/ULMB, but this doesn't apply to every single model.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
To support Blur Busters: Official List of Best Gaming Monitors | G-SYNC | FreeSync | Ultrawide
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby Notty_PT » 08 Nov 2017, 12:47

Hi. Felt I had to sign up on the forum and add some information regarding this 240hz subject. I visit this forum for years and is a golden one.

Let me tell you, this first gen of 240hz screens is not that good. Sure, objectively speaking you are right: 240hz monitors have less input lag than any monitor. But in wich conditions? That´s what I will try to explain.

According to all websites, from Rtings, prad.de, HardwareInfo, PCmag, hdtvpolska, etc, these 240hz screens have around 15ms input lag at 60hz using a Leo Bodnar device.

While I know Leo Bodnar isn´t as accurate as other methods, I also know it doesn´t give you erratic values (for example, for 2 monitors with the same measure input lag with accurate methods, leo bodnar won´t show you a discrepancy of more than 1ms on its center screen value).

So, what´s the drill? Well, a good 144hz monitor has 9ms to 10ms input lag at 60hz. You divide that by 2,25 (because of the 144hz) and you end up with around 4,2ms input lag.

With 240hz screens you get 3,75ms (15/4). So objectively speaking, yes, 240hz monitors are more responsive. But is it really worth it to spend 500 bucks or more on something that has a 0,45ms advantage? I don´t think so, considering you can get amazing 144hz screens for half the price (LG 24GM79G for example). Also if you happen to connect a console to those 240hz screens you will have same input lag as some HDTVs!!! And that´s bad for the money you spend.

Also, if you can´t keep constant 240fps in a game (wich will happen on most of them, apart from CS GO), your input lag will increase automatically. So let´s say you can only sustain 180fps to 200fps. Your input lag is now higher than your 144hz monitor at 144fps... see what I mean?

So in conclusion, while objectively speaking 240hz = lower input lag and biggest advantage possible (altho won´t make the difference). A 144hz monitor can end up with better performance on most situations.

Maybe the 2nd gen of 240hz screens will be better and deliver the golden 9ms-10ms mark at 60hz, wich will make it 2ms-2,5ms at 240hz. And then yeah, at half the input lag compared to the best 144hz screens, you will notice its advantages. For now? Not really, not worth it at all.
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Re: BenQ XL2546 (240Hz + DyAc) finally available

Postby mello » 08 Nov 2017, 13:52

Notty_PT wrote:Also, if you can´t keep constant 240fps in a game (wich will happen on most of them, apart from CS GO), your input lag will increase automatically. So let´s say you can only sustain 180fps to 200fps. Your input lag is now higher than your 144hz monitor at 144fps... see what I mean?


This in completely inaccurate. More fps = less input lag, more hz = less input lag & less lag randomness.
So even 180fps@240Hz will always have less lag than 144fps@144Hz. There is no need to match fps with your monitor hz.
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