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Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20th

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Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20th

Postby BlurZapper » 15 Aug 2018, 20:34

There have been a few hints from Nvidia (not explicit but implicit) about the new Turing series to be debuted at Gamescom on August the 20th. Hardware within the GPU designed for Ray Tracing is going to be one of the key points.

This thread can be for discussing things related to the 20XX series. I hope this new addition spurs monitor manufacturers to speed up their R&D/mass production of next generation monitors. HDR, 4K and 144hz should be a breeze for the 20XX series, maybe.

One question I've always wondered if someone has experience, should I get the Founder's Edition card on the first release, I'm assuming with all the miners this series might be sold out quickly and prices might skyrocket like half a year ago. Its either that, or we wait 2 weeks after Founders for ASUS/MSi/PNY/EVGA cards in which case the price might have gone up.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby darzo » 16 Aug 2018, 05:20

According to rumors 4k 144hz will be anything but a breeze for these cards. The 2080 appears to essentially be a 1080ti, if rumors are to be believed. A paltry 8% increase in performance. I would expect no more than 20%. A Titan/the very top card is claimed to be only 50% faster than a 1080ti (and at $3000 although I have a hard time believing this). Likewise, while ray tracing would be supported these cards may not be capable of doing too much with it. At least the glorified 1080ti that is the 2080 should support my 1080 240hz and 1440 165hz monitors adequately at decent settings. Graphics cards are lagging behind monitors.

I go with "aftermarket" cards for cooling peace of mind, even though I burned two EVGA cards in SLI two separate times. Finally Nvidia's reference cards will come with better cooling in the form of two fans, but I'll take the manufacturer overclocking and still better cooling of the others.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby darzo » 19 Aug 2018, 00:30

Rumors are streaming in that the 2080 ti is coming out at the same time as the 2080. In essence it's replacing the badly done Titan (higher price for same performance, exclusively reference with worse cooling and lower clocks). The pricing is claimed to be $900-$1000 and it may be around 40% better than a 1080 ti. I would need all of that just to play Destiny 2 at pretty much its lowest settings at around 144 fps. So while this is welcomed news unless you're going to do SLI, and I've had bad experiences with temperatures, you're still going to be making serious compromises.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby open » 19 Aug 2018, 15:07

Nvidias focus has gone away from gaming this time around. At least current games. The card could be looked at as a sort of future proof card with ray tracing and ai support being the key fetures added. Neither of those things look to be very usable with current games.

As a company they are definately diversifying and I think their foundation of performance in current games has been overlooked. Maxwell was a huge architecture advancement with tile based rendering optimizations or something similar going on in the background. Pascal basically took maxwell added a little better (but still maybe not as good as amds) async support and put it on a newer process. The combination of more cores and faster clocks on the foundation laid by the maxwell architecture led to pascal being a big step up in gaming performance. But to be honest there is little to gain in the way of future maufacturing process updates.

I love nvidia. I first learned graphics programming from their gpu gems series and have always loved how they were a programmer oriented company. But they may be setting themselves up for an amd comeback in late 2019-2020. While nvidia have pushed for the biggest dies ever amd is developing navi that will use something like infinity fabric and HOPEFULLY present to the programmer as a single gpu without the need for as heavy of driver support as something like sli. With nvidia going with big dies (lower yield rates) and amd going with smaller dies (bigger yields) and the performance of 20xx cards being not a huge step up; amd could finnaly be set to be very much competitive again in the gpu market.

It all hinges on navi working the right way.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby darzo » 19 Aug 2018, 15:23

I don't know about that. People are speculating that the immediate launch of the ti card means Nvidia is preparing to crush AMD once again if 7nm or whatever cards are coming in under two years, possibly in around one (although at this point I wouldn't take comments too seriously, and most sites don't seem more informed either). There's repeatedly expectation that AMD will release an upcoming product that will actually compete with or best Nvidia or Intel, and it seems like each time the result is disappointing. I don't know how these new cards compare to the 9xx to 10xx jump but the increased performance will be substantial (40-50% seems to be the ballpark). AMD has yet to touch Nvidia in gaming and if anything Nvidia might be gaining further expertise and resources, something they have alluded to in downplaying Intel venturing into GPUs. These are apparently very complex things.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby open » 19 Aug 2018, 18:23

Amd and nvidia go through the same companies to manufacture their chips. Unless some completely unexpected technology comes out of nowhere and likely even if one did, the remaining gains from process nodes are going to be minimal. You can only make these structures so many molecules wide and fundamentally it just gets harder and harder to do and gains you less as well. From a performance standpoint we are hitting the wall now. And even more so from a performance/price standpoint. The only significant remaining ways these companies can benefit consumers is with 1) architecture imporvements 2) lowering production costs. Nvidia is raising thier production costs. And if the new chips are based on the existing titan / quadro cards of the same generation (which is what nvidia have been doing for a long time) then the performance gains will be very minimal. You say that they will be at least 50% faster. Do you have ANYTHING that suggests that or are you just saying that? Nvidia is probably releasing the top tier card sooner because the margin of improvement is that small. Nobody would buy a 2080 if the 1080ti is faster. So they need the 2080ti at launch. Also they have probably delayed this launch already. An oem manufacturer of nvidia cards recently returned 300,000 gpus to nvidia. Nvidia ramped up production in anticipation of mining demand and mining demand declined. So they have to deal with their back stock before they launch the new line. Especially because the difference between the two is small.

Its clear you are just a fanboy. Im an nvidia fanboy too but im a gpu and realtime graphics enthusiast first. You talk about a repeated expectation for amd to crush nvidia but in the industry it is different. Few informed people expected vega contend with the 1080ti. Navi is different in that it is at least unknown at this point. It is not just a big step for amd but for gpu tech in general. The holy grail has been using multiple chips for one game. But it has been a difficult one with sli and crossfire often failing to present well as a single gpu to the programmer and scale well. Navi has potential harnessing amds work on infinity fabric which was designed with both cpus and gpus in mind. But again it is a big task and it will take more than just infinity fabric to actually be a big step forward. Still given all the information that is out, we have nvidia with lower profit margins and amd with higher profit margins. If nvidia fail to deliver as the evidence suggests then they will be esentially using 3 year old performance when navi comes out. And if navi actually scales well then it will represent a big step up in performance as well as a drop in production cost. If the engineering team does what they did with zen they will own the top tier.

I wish nvidia was a bit more traditional with the new line. Future tech is always nice but it is likely to be more of an afterthought in games untill it is widely adopted. What you can do with the new cards is amazing. You can get movie like effects in realtime. But its one of those things where in 2 or 3 years when you actually have reason to want the capability faster cards will be out. Producers developers and programmers have always been reluctant to put time into a product that depends on a platform with limited adoption.
Last edited by open on 21 Aug 2018, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby darzo » 20 Aug 2018, 03:47

I'm not a fanboy of graphics card companies. If AMD beats Nvidia and has solid drivers I wouldn't mind switching. I find it hilarious seeing some of the comment exchanges between people who apparently identify with Nvidia and AMD enough to attack each other like they're sports team fans, just as I find your presumption to call me a fanboy funny. This stuff is just not that serious to me. I guarantee you each of the new cards will perform at least 40% better than its 10xx counterpart. The 2080 being a meager improvement over the 1080ti, forcing the 2080ti, is a good thought. I think something more can be in play, and I marvel at the people on OCN moaning about a $1000 ti. The Titans that come out first have in effect been the tis, except costing $1200-$1300 with reference cooling and clocks. I'm hopeful this is a from a certain standpoint logical move in the interest of consumers, but time will tell.

I don't follow your logic in the second paragraph, nor am I optimistic about AMD successfully reaching a lofty goal, beating Nvidia to it to boot. But I wouldn't know. Does it give me any pause in buying a 2080ti? Nope. I'll take my chances, and in the off-chance AMD pulls a rabbit out of a hat in under a year and a half that's fine. Wouldn't expect it though, and I would be shocked if Nvidia isn't right on their tails. 40-50% faster than a 1080ti, which is a hair under 40% faster than my current 1080, sounds worthwhile to me. I'll wake up for the leather jacket guy's speech and we might find out. I have a pg27uq to feed and an xb272 or whatever to use on more than minimal settings.

As for ray tracing, I don't really care. That's just a bonus. I'm much more interested in the fps boosts.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby darzo » 20 Aug 2018, 12:49

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/turing/

If these prices are true the 2080 ti is priced the same as a previous Titan, and I'm not even sure it will be available to their partners like the Titans weren't. I don't understand who and why starts seemingly credible rumors that turn out to be wrong like this. Disappointing, but not unexpected.

Now it appears Nvidia's own page is currently wrong and the rumors are right! Unless the slightly overclocked Founder's Edition is $200 more than the reference card... where would others be selling in this case?

https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/20/17760 ... ice-turing

Except this claims that the Founder's Editions will be lower priced. Strange.

The Nvidia-manufactured Founders Edition versions will cost $499 for the RTX 2070, $699 for the RTX 2080 and $999 for the RTX 2080 Ti.


Seems like these guys know just as much as I do. :D

Correction: The prices for the Nvidia GeForce RTX 20-series cards have been updated per Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang’s Gamescom keynote — it appears that the prices listed on Nvidia’s website were not final. The RTX 2070 will cost $499, not $599; the RTX 2080 will cost $699, not $799; the RTX 2080 Ti will cost $999, not $1,199.


You know, I do find it concerning there was zero talk about actual performance. Only ray tracing.

PS

Cursed Frogurt
Even though the Ray Tracing is super impressive, one Turing GPU (probably the 2080Ti) got about 78 FPS on the Infiltrator demo while a 1080Ti got about 30 FPS. So for gaming results, it’s a similar jump in performance; I got about double the frame rate going from a 980 Ti to a 1080 Ti in most games.


Now I'd be really surprised by this. That's 100% territory, i.e. twice as fast.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby open » 20 Aug 2018, 17:11

I would wait and see the real benchmarks when the public can go to town and post results. Core for core and clock for clock we see a best case improvement of 18% for the ti and worst case of 8% for the 2080 using the base clock. Or 13% using the boost clock. Everything hinges on the new unified cache architecture for performance increases. Nvidia quote double the cache bandwidth. Cache improvemen is essentially the same type of tactic that maxwell had by optimising the system to have a better ram to core interface. So it could ammount to alot really. Waiting to hear from my prefered benchmarkers currently.
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Re: Nvidia GPU GTX 20XX Series likely revealed @ Gamescom 20

Postby darzo » 20 Aug 2018, 23:40

That CEO of theirs is a sleazy guy. He lied about the release, kept pulling that Titan trick, and spoke exclusively about ray tracing, even branding the cards as 6x faster in reference to it. I'm hopeful the recent rumors won't be wildly wrong but given I'm short on money I'll be waiting a little. He likes to portray himself as your common guy but I'm starting to dislike that man.
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