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Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Dec 2020, 15:13
by reniak
Just found this old tweet:

ZOWIE BenQ America (sept 7 2020):

"We are working on something better than just 360hz but until we can be sure it is a relevant improvement to our 240hz/dyac for serious gaming, we won’t release a new model. So, no schedule as of right now for any related to 360hz."

(I can't post url links or pictures. Why?)

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Dec 2020, 22:39
by Chief Blur Buster
Thank you for the heads up!
reniak wrote:
17 Dec 2020, 15:13
(I can't post url links or pictures. Why?
Due to a spammer epidemic, new users aren't allowed to post links/pictures until they have a few posts.
On your next post, your should now be able to post URLs and pictures.

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 10 Jan 2021, 14:41
by Boomchakadah
FYI. just like other XL24xxx monitors, the XL2411K is still using that old TN panel from 10 years ago. Here's a screenshot of the service menu https://imgur.com/a/QT2TuiU I just took from this video.

Image

phpBB [video]


https://www.panelook.com/M240HW01%20V8_ ... 17455.html

[Moderator note: embedded [img] and [video] tags for convenience :) ]

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 11 Jan 2021, 01:56
by A Solid lad
Boomchakadah wrote:
10 Jan 2021, 14:41
FYI. just like other XL24xxx monitors, the XL2411K is still using that old TN panel from 10 years ago. Here's a screenshot of the service menu https://imgur.com/a/QT2TuiU I just took from this video. https://youtu.be/U_jnEq_qkVc?t=10

https://www.panelook.com/M240HW01%20V8_ ... 17455.html
oh...my... god
That's so PETTY from such a big company as Benq...
I've had the XL2411Z, it was my first HFR LCD... and while it was fast, it had to warm up like CRT for colors to be acceptable (lol) and even after that, it looked horrible in comparison to my current 2540.
The higher you went with the refresh rate, the worse the colors got.

Surely the scaler is newer, right? Which means it must look at least a bit better?

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 12:11
by axaro1
Boomchakadah wrote:
10 Jan 2021, 14:41
FYI. just like other XL24xxx monitors, the XL2411K is still using that old TN panel from 10 years ago. Here's a screenshot of the service menu https://imgur.com/a/QT2TuiU I just took from this video. https://youtu.be/U_jnEq_qkVc?t=10

https://www.panelook.com/M240HW01%20V8_ ... 17455.html
Even slightly newer revisions of the same panel can have completely different response times/colors.

Look at the 2540/2546 vs 2546S/K, one uses the Q250HTN00 A000 and the other uses the Q250HTN00 A200, and the latter is noticeably better in every aspect.

If we use RTings data we can see -2.4ms G2G (with respectively their best overdrives, AMA High on the XL2540 and AMA High on the 2546K, with the K model dissipating overshoot way faster).

There could be a massive difference between the M240HW01 v8 and the M240HW01 v87h.

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 07:39
by speancer
A few days go I received my Zowie XL2540K, and I gotta say, comparing to XL2546K I'm quite disappointed. XL2540K has pronounced pixel inversion artifacts (vertical lines appearing on the screen in motion), just like both of the older-gen TNs I tested had these artifacts as well (Omen X25f, XL2546), while XL2546K that I tested had basically none (barely visible from a close look-up). On the other hand, colour accuracy seems to be better on my XL2540K than on XL2546K, contrast ratio also appears to be better (I use a dark scenery location in a particular game to compare).

Now, I don't know what panel XL2540K uses exactly, but I suspect that it's not the same panel that is used in XL2546K. Perhaps I'm super unlucky, but I think it just can't be a coincidence that all other TN monitors that I've had, besides XL2546K, had pixel inversion artifacts issue, so I can say it's a common problem on older-gen TN panels from my own experience, that's why I suspect the panels are not the same in XL2540K and XL2546K. Or perhaps this could be the matter of fine-tuning the panel? I'm pretty sure I've seen Zowie representative posting that XL2546K gets manually fine-tuned by Zowie, especially for their DyAc+ implementation, while XL2540K obviously doesn't. On the other hand, the Zowie representative could only mean that it's just fine-tuned for DyAc+, nothing else.

To sum up, unfortunately I do not recommend XL2540K because of pixel inversion artifacts. I wonder how can anyone use a TN panel with this issue and be ok with it, it's just unacceptable. If 3 out of 4 TN monitors that I've had were affected by this issue, I'm pretty convinced all of them, or most of them older-gen TNs are plagued with these artifacts (Chief also said it's common in TN panels afaik). Mind you, I've also experienced this issue on high refresh rate IPS panels, but never to such extent as on TN ones. My previous unit of VG259QM had some inversion artifacts, the other one was free of it.

By the way, I don't know if someone posted this before here, so just FYI, XL2546K/XL2546K-B and XL2540K/XL2540K-B are exactly the same monitors. I guess "B" only stands for "black" or something. The model ID contains "B" for both models, as seen in the picture I took:

Image

[Moderator note: embedded [img] for convenience :) ]

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 07:59
by axaro1
speancer wrote:
Yesterday, 07:39
A few days go I received my Zowie XL2540K, and I gotta say, comparing to XL2546K I'm quite disappointed. XL2540K has pronounced pixel inversion artifacts (vertical lines appearing on the screen in motion), just like both of the older-gen TNs I tested had these artifacts as well (Omen X25f, XL2546), while XL2546K that I tested had basically none (barely visible from a close look-up). On the other hand, colour accuracy seems to be better on my XL2540K than on XL2546K, contrast ratio also appears to be better (I use a dark scenery location in a particular game to compare).

Now, I don't know what panel XL2540K uses exactly, but I suspect that it's not the same panel that is used in XL2546K. Perhaps I'm super unlucky, but I think it just can't be a coincidence that all other TN monitors that I've had, besides XL2546K, had pixel inversion artifacts issue... or perhaps this could be the matter of fine-tuning the panel? I'm pretty sure I've seen Zowie representative posting that XL2546K gets manually fine-tuned by Zowie, especially for their DyAc+ implementation, while XL2540K obviously doesn't. On the other hand, the Zowie representative could only mean that it's just fine-tuned for DyAc+, nothing else.

To sum up, unfortunately I do not recommend XL2540K because of pixel inversion artifacts. I wonder how can anyone use a TN panel with this issue and be ok with it, it's just unacceptable. If 3 out of 4 TN monitors that I've had were affected by this issue, I'm pretty convinced all of them, or most of them older-gen TNs are plagued with these artifacts (Chief said it's common in TN panels afaik). Mind you, I've also experienced this issue on high refresh rate IPS panels, but never to such extent as on TN ones. My previous unit of VG259QM had some inversion artifacts, the other one was free of it.

By the way, I don't know if someone posted this before here, so just FYI, XL2546K/XL2546K-B and XL2540K/XL2540K-B are exactly the same monitors. I guess "B" only stands for "black" or something. The model ID contains "B" for both models, as seen in the picture I took: https://i.imgur.com/rMrXbgY.jpg
My XL2546K is using the Q250HTN00 A200, to enter the service menu you need to switch off then boot while keeping the 5 way wheel pressed.

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 10:50
by speancer
axaro1 wrote:
Yesterday, 07:59
My XL2546K is using the Q250HTN00 A200, to enter the service menu you need to switch off then boot while keeping the 5 way wheel pressed.
Thanks, I entered the service menu, the panel name is AUO M250HTN018. Apparently it's not the same panel as XL2546K uses. I checked the panel name of XL2540, according to display-corner it's AUO M250HTN010, so it seems that XL2540K uses a newer revision of the same panel as XL2540. Too bad it's also affected by pixel inversion issues. As for XL2540K panel supposedly being a new-gen FLC TN panel, it's disappointing to see it with a common problem like this left unresolved.

Is your XL2546K affected by pixel inversion issue? Were your other TN monitors affected? Like I said, all of mine were affected, with the only exception of XL2546K. I'd always refuse to use a monitor with pixel inversion artifacts, and TNs are more prone to this problem as it seems.

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 11:22
by axaro1
speancer wrote:
Yesterday, 10:50
Thanks, I entered the service menu, the panel name is AUO M250HTN018. Apparently it's not the same panel as XL2546K uses. I checked the panel name of XL2540, according to display-corner it's AUO M250HTN010, so it seems that XL2540K uses a newer revision of the same panel as XL2540. Too bad it's also affected by pixel inversion issues. As for XL2540K panel supposedly being a new-gen FLC TN panel, it's disappointing to see it with a common problem like this left unresolved.

Is your XL2546K affected by pixel inversion issue? Were your other TN monitors affected? Like I said, all of mine were affected, with the only exception of XL2546K. I'd always refuse to use a monitor with pixel inversion artifacts, and TNs are prone to this problem as it seems.
My XL2546K definitely doesn't suffer from pixel inversion according to Lagom's Inversion (pixel-walk) test.

I remember running the entire Lagom monitor test on the XG2402 a couple of years ago and I don't really remember seeing any flicker on the pixel inversion test either, but I could be wrong, it was a long time ago.

Not using the XL2546K panel for the XL2540K was a dumb choice by Benq, here in south Europe you can get a XL2540K for 340€ and an aw2521hf for 380€ so I don't see why someone would choose it over an IPS if it's using a bad panel.

They could have easily dominated the 240hz market strictly for competitive players by setting the price to 360€ and using the xl2546K panel and instead they decided to cheap out hoping that good reviews of the 46K would make the XL2540K a tantalising alternative considering the lower price.
That's not cool, Benq :x
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
12 Jan 2021, 21:51
XG2431 is a 23.8" IPS panel.
Personally I was not satisfied by the first gen of 240hz IPS either, if I had to buy a 240hz monitor I'd probably wait for the XG2431 to see if this new generation of 240hz IPS can do better, and I definitely have good expectations this time.

The VG259QM panels looked very blurry out of the box, I've seen this blurriness issue being a common denominator in a lot of 24.5" 1080p 240/360hz IPS monitors.

Re: NEW Benq Zowie Monitors Speculation/Info Thread (XL2546K-B, XL2546K, XL2411K)

Posted: 17 Jan 2021, 12:02
by speancer
axaro1 wrote:
Yesterday, 11:22
My XL2546K definitely doesn't suffer from pixel inversion according to Lagom's Inversion (pixel-walk) test.
Well, I don't really do any tests like this, I just either see or don't see freaking vertical lines appearing on the screen during motion, no tests needed! :) Pixel inversion artifacting issue must be one of the worst things any monitor can be affected with, if you ask me.

Update: I did the Lagom's Inversion Test you mentioned and it's quite heavily flickering on all of the boxes, so this is bad.
axaro1 wrote:
Yesterday, 11:22
Not using the XL2546K panel for the XL2540K was a dumb choice by Benq, here in south Europe you can get a XL2540K for 340€ and an aw2521hf for 380€ so I don't see why someone would choose it over an IPS if it's using a bad panel.

They could have easily dominated the 240hz market strictly for competitive players by setting the price to 360€ and using the xl2546K panel and instead they decided to cheap out hoping that good reviews of the 46K would make the XL2540K a tantalising alternative considering the lower price.
That's not cool, Benq :x
Yeah, as for me, I don't really need DyAc, it does not benefit my gameplay that much, and the price gap is huge, so I thought XL2540K would be exactly the same but with no DyAc, sadly it's not, so yes, disappointing. Pixel inversion artifacts just destroy this display for me, I can't stand it, and I don't wanna play RMA game, I suspect replacement units might as well be affected, as my other TN displays were.
axaro1 wrote:
Yesterday, 11:22
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
12 Jan 2021, 21:51
XG2431 is a 23.8" IPS panel.
Personally I was not satisfied by the first gen of 240hz IPS either, if I had to buy a 240hz monitor I'd probably wait for the XG2431 to see if this new generation of 240hz IPS can do better, and I definitely have good expectations this time.

The VG259QM panels looked very blurry out of the box, I've seen this blurriness issue being a common denominator in a lot of 24.5" 1080p 240/360hz IPS monitors.
I don't think I'm affected by that blur much, I struggle to see a difference between VG259QM and XL2540K after using one for a month and then switching to the other one. Perhaps switching between them back and forth would crystallise the differences more clearly for me. Update: I think fast moving images on XL2540K appear to be sharper after all, but I'd not bet my head on that. Too bad I failed to make a direct comparison again when I still had VG259QM, did not have time to do it. I don't think it helps me to play better though, I perform well on both of these displays. As for the XG2431, why do they have to make it 23.8"? I've already sacrificed 27" 1440p to 24.5" 1080p to benefit from 240/280 Hz, going even smaller is not to my liking! :P