ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Breaking news in the gaming monitor industry! Press releases, new monitors, rumors. IPS, OLED, 144Hz, G-SYNC, Ultrawides, etc. Submit news you see online!
Alpha
Posts: 132
Joined: 09 Jul 2020, 17:58

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by Alpha » 01 Sep 2020, 09:31

ren wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 17:08
Alpha wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 08:08
I own an Omen X 25F and an Asus VG259QM amongst many others (Omen X 27 is another stellar one I have) and can say with 100% certainty that I can not see, identify, or tell the difference on UFO test between the IPS and UFO between the two. Its so freaking close.

Hey Alpha, I was about to pull the trigger on the Omen 25f but after reading your comment I'm back at my indecisiveness. Could you please help me out since you have personal experience with both monitors that I was keeping an eye on?
I'm looking to buy my first 240hz monitor and I keep seeing mixed opinions on whether TN panel is still superior in terms of "speed" over an IPS panel.
I was about to choose the HP Omen to go safe because my primary goal is motion clarity and low input lag, color accuracy is second priority and viewing angles don't matter that much to me. But because I keep seeing people's comments saying that they can't notice the difference between this HP monitor (which is one of the fastest TN panels) and the popular fast IPS monitors (vg259qm, mag251rx, aw2521hf) I thought that I might as well go with IPS if it has the same speed of a TN panel but with good color accuracy.

Alpha wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 08:08
No dog in the TN vs IPS fight. I've said it before in front of the X 25F I can not tell this is a TN panel per say. This display is amazing.

Now you're even making it harder for me because I also see a lot of comments saying that the HP 25f has very good colors for a TN panel. How do they compare to the colors of the vg259qm?
Everyone's perception is different. Before I had read any reviews stating otherwise I could feel the difference in ULMB in the 259QM. I had mentioned it here multiple times. No idea what that is caused by scientifically but it is there but ever so slightly. Finally seeing Rtings review, it is infact a hair slow maybe a 1 ms or two, I'd have to go back for certainty and check their review. I shouldn't notice that. I also mentioned that I did not think it was enough to make any difference in gameplay though. The FW on my 259QM is 105 and no idea what Rtings was for their review. My eyes don't agree with the OD60 vs OD120.

I'd have to look at my Omen X 25f for FW. The 25f is extremely, extremely good imo. These are literally so close in performance and imo calibrated hard to tell a difference. The 259 has the black EQ. The Omen has a far superior Omen Software control panel though some options are missing that aren't for my x 27 which is really weird. Its such a unique time to purchase monitors. TN has really come a long ways. IPS is making grounds. I do literally get paid to play games and between the two I just can't tell enough of a difference. If you haven't seen Bijan Jamshidi YouTube channel check it out specifically in regards to the MAG251RX (the software a lone makes owning this extremely tantalizing). I think some have echo'd here that the differences are becoming so minuscule that you won't tell the difference. They are probably right. The issue is I could tell the difference on the ULMB and I can tell the difference between my G Pro Wireless, my Razor Ultimate (have the mini as well), and my hard wired mice. Thats been debunked so placebo? Won't argue but a person will always know what they know.

I'll personally grab a 360hz monitor and check it out unless Benq drops a bombshell which I don't expect. I believe they shit the bed this time and how the 2546S was handled was a great indicator to me the time in R&D either hasn't been well spent or they have some brutally poor communication internally. If they drop a bomb someone needs a major bonus. With no announcements and the production time typically associated with announcements unless something is crazy under wraps (kudos if that's the case) it would seem to be one of the best kept secrets hands down.

Sept is going to be a fun a month. Can't wait to see how nVidia will spin the new 3000 series cards (watch the 3090 will be spun into the best thing ever though you know due to Samsung yields being so low on 7nm its a paper launch) which it likely won't be but I'll buy anyway lol.

Find a place with a good return policy. Buy one and try it and go with what your eyes say. I love humanbenchmark because I feel this tells me what I need to know as well as aimlabs. UFO test are there as well as my favorites. Likely panel variances maybe I'm not sure but what I see isn't always what I am seeing online that I "should be seeing".

User avatar
A Solid lad
Posts: 317
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 08:07
Location: Slovakia
Contact:

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by A Solid lad » 01 Sep 2020, 09:59

speancer wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 14:56
Anyway, from what they present in this "review", amount of blur is unacceptable. What we want is extremely clear motion with no trails, isn't it? If this monitor turns out to have worse motion handling than 240 Hz equivalents, then I'd say it's pointless. Also, I wouldn't call this video a review, as it has no response times and input lag measurements, so I'm looking forward to seeing some real tests.

By the way, gotta tell you that after playing CS:GO on Zowie XL2546 for several days and then switching back to MAG251RX, I'd swear I definitely could tell a difference in motion clarity, the MSI one looked way more blurry comparing to XL2546 (both on the fastest overdrive setting, no strobing used in comparison). I never thought I'd say that, but I'm starting to like TN, but I still have to do a comparison to VG259QM. I'm also curious what Zowie is going to show up in September.
Agreed on all fronts.
And it isn't just TN... Benq seems to nail motion clarity on their monitors the best.
I've tried Acer, Asus and Dell high refresh rate monitors... and Benq always felt better to play on than the competition.
(Just to be clear, I'm talking about sample-and-hold here.)
Chief wrote:Also, running simultaneous multimonitor mirroring has some frameskipping issues -- 240Hz and 360Hz simultaneous has some microstutter from multimonitor mirroring.
Was waiting for someone to point this out... monitor mirroring is not a good way of comparing monitors.
At the very least, there will be input lag differences... and most likely other issues as well if refresh rates and resolutions aren't matched.
Discord | Youtube | Twitch
Steam with a list of monitors & mice I've used/use.

User avatar
A Solid lad
Posts: 317
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 08:07
Location: Slovakia
Contact:

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by A Solid lad » 01 Sep 2020, 10:38

AddictFPS wrote:Is very fun also see how the FPS Test Setup include a wireless mouse, that is well know that add a bit of input lag

Seems there still being a small difference

One Pro Player can win bucks in one tournament, but also promoting a mouse model ;) Which of two task fills pocket more ?
Please stop... you're embarrassing us.

First off:
Yes, Razer's and Logitech's recent wired mice are indeed 1-3ms faster than their wireless brethren, but the GPW, RVU, G703, etc. are still faster than most older wired gaming mice, which are still being widely used by high level esport players, so the GPW was perfectly sufficient for this test... the faults with LTT' video lie elsewhere.

Second:
Top CS players will swap most of their peripherals, like keyboards, headsets, etc. for more money... but not their mice.
They are fanatics who want to win at all costs, which means they will use the mouse with which they perform their best.
You're delusional if you think otherwise.
(Many pro GPW users aren't even sponsored by Logitech... and many Logitech sponsored players use Zowie mice.)
amezibra wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 18:14
IMHO this PG259QN has been rushed out :

- no 360hz strobing
- Panel response time doesn't look faster than current 240-280 IPS
- most 240hz panel have better ufo test motion reduction from what we see.

it is a rushed out monitor just to claim world first and They totally missed the target audience.

wait 1 or 2 years for a version with a gsync module capable to do ULMB at 360hz and with a faster panel (TN or whatever)
My thoughts exactly.
Discord | Youtube | Twitch
Steam with a list of monitors & mice I've used/use.

ren
Posts: 5
Joined: 20 Aug 2020, 11:26

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by ren » 01 Sep 2020, 12:32

Alpha wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 09:31
Everyone's perception is different. Before I had read any reviews stating otherwise I could feel the difference in ULMB in the 259QM. I had mentioned it here multiple times. No idea what that is caused by scientifically but it is there but ever so slightly. Finally seeing Rtings review, it is infact a hair slow maybe a 1 ms or two, I'd have to go back for certainty and check their review. I shouldn't notice that. I also mentioned that I did not think it was enough to make any difference in gameplay though. The FW on my 259QM is 105 and no idea what Rtings was for their review. My eyes don't agree with the OD60 vs OD120.
What do you mean when you say that you could feel the difference in ULMB on the Asus VG259QM? Do you prefer the Asus over the HP for Competitive Gaming?
Initially I thought you meant that you could feel that it is indeed faster but then you mentioned that it's a "hair slower"?

Alpha wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 09:31
I'd have to look at my Omen X 25f for FW. The 25f is extremely, extremely good imo. These are literally so close in performance and imo calibrated hard to tell a difference. The 259 has the black EQ. The Omen has a far superior Omen Software control panel though some options are missing that aren't for my x 27 which is really weird. Its such a unique time to purchase monitors. TN has really come a long ways. IPS is making grounds. I do literally get paid to play games and between the two I just can't tell enough of a difference. If you haven't seen Bijan Jamshidi YouTube channel check it out specifically in regards to the MAG251RX (the software a lone makes owning this extremely tantalizing). I think some have echo'd here that the differences are becoming so minuscule that you won't tell the difference. They are probably right. The issue is I could tell the difference on the ULMB and I can tell the difference between my G Pro Wireless, my Razor Ultimate (have the mini as well), and my hard wired mice. Thats been debunked so placebo? Won't argue but a person will always know what they know.
Yes I agree, both TN and IPS panels have really come a long way. TN panels are improving their colors and IPS is making it's way to reach the speed of the fastest TN panels.
And yes I saw Bijan Jamshidi's reviews and I think they're good. In the latest video of the MSI MAG251RX he compared this monitor to its competitor, the VG259QM and he said that he prefers the MSI one because of the better Software, Black Equalizer and a slightly better ELMB performance.
Though, the thing is I don't even know if these Motion Blur reduction technologies are worth it. I never had the chance to try them but I see comments saying that it causes eye strain and it doesn't benefit all players because it depends on your "aiming technique". Also the only monitor that does it well is Benq with their DyAc technology, all the other competitors lower the peak brightness by a lot when using motion blur reduction.

Alpha wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 09:31
Find a place with a good return policy. Buy one and try it and go with what your eyes say. I love humanbenchmark because I feel this tells me what I need to know as well as aimlabs. UFO test are there as well as my favorites. Likely panel variances maybe I'm not sure but what I see isn't always what I am seeing online that I "should be seeing".
Yeah if I can't decide I think I'll have to go this way.
Btw thanks, I really appreciate your help.

diakou
Posts: 83
Joined: 09 Aug 2020, 11:28

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by diakou » 01 Sep 2020, 17:42

A Solid lad wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 10:38
Top CS players will swap most of their peripherals, like keyboards, headsets, etc. for more money... but not their mice.
They are fanatics who want to win at all costs, which means they will use the mouse with which they perform their best.
You're delusional if you think otherwise.
(Many pro GPW users aren't even sponsored by Logitech... and many Logitech sponsored players use Zowie mice.)
This is dangerous to write because while pro players have a way better average standing point in terms of feel, sensitivity, changes etc to performance and wanting the best, being within absolute peak of League of Legends players (top 50 EUW) top 10 in battlerite (EU) and the best / top 10 consistently in Brawlhalla. I have come to realize one simple fact; pros are not empirical knowledge regarding gear. They are very uneducated comparatively to most latency enthusiasts and will simply use whatever feels the best to them at the time, regardless of what is scientifically better / has evidence to back it up. There are more important factors such as grip, not being able to handle certain cables etc than 0.5 to 1.5ms in click latency on a mouse. But this citing of pro players has been to a detriment. I understand why people keep doing it, because it makes natural sense from reasoning, but there's a reason in the modern sports world there exists performance coaches, nutritionists (and in the case of olympics with countries such as Russla/China AND OTHERS) steroid/doping specialists.

The players themselves don't choose for a good reason; they more often than not, do not have the time to worry about it and esports world has not progressed enough where teams try and find every single small advantage latency wise because we are just not there yet. I expect the landscape change in competitive gaming to completely turn around within the next 5 years in terms of pros using genuinely better gear.

I ask again, please stop referring to the pros regarding latency, they are simply better fit than the average person, but are NOT a better tester than majority of us on forums like these regarding lag.

User avatar
A Solid lad
Posts: 317
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 08:07
Location: Slovakia
Contact:

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by A Solid lad » 02 Sep 2020, 06:04

What are you even on about?
I never said anything about pros being able to tell latency differences, or them using the fastest gear.
I explicitly said they use the mouse with which they perform their best... regardless of the specs.

We have the same exact point of view on the whole matter... read my post again to realise that.
Discord | Youtube | Twitch
Steam with a list of monitors & mice I've used/use.

purplew
Posts: 82
Joined: 04 Aug 2020, 00:24

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by purplew » 02 Sep 2020, 10:33

Alpha wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 09:31
ren wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 17:08
Alpha wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 08:08
I own an Omen X 25F and an Asus VG259QM amongst many others (Omen X 27 is another stellar one I have) and can say with 100% certainty that I can not see, identify, or tell the difference on UFO test between the IPS and UFO between the two. Its so freaking close.

Hey Alpha, I was about to pull the trigger on the Omen 25f but after reading your comment I'm back at my indecisiveness. Could you please help me out since you have personal experience with both monitors that I was keeping an eye on?
I'm looking to buy my first 240hz monitor and I keep seeing mixed opinions on whether TN panel is still superior in terms of "speed" over an IPS panel.
I was about to choose the HP Omen to go safe because my primary goal is motion clarity and low input lag, color accuracy is second priority and viewing angles don't matter that much to me. But because I keep seeing people's comments saying that they can't notice the difference between this HP monitor (which is one of the fastest TN panels) and the popular fast IPS monitors (vg259qm, mag251rx, aw2521hf) I thought that I might as well go with IPS if it has the same speed of a TN panel but with good color accuracy.

Alpha wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 08:08
No dog in the TN vs IPS fight. I've said it before in front of the X 25F I can not tell this is a TN panel per say. This display is amazing.

Now you're even making it harder for me because I also see a lot of comments saying that the HP 25f has very good colors for a TN panel. How do they compare to the colors of the vg259qm?
Everyone's perception is different. Before I had read any reviews stating otherwise I could feel the difference in ULMB in the 259QM. I had mentioned it here multiple times. No idea what that is caused by scientifically but it is there but ever so slightly. Finally seeing Rtings review, it is infact a hair slow maybe a 1 ms or two, I'd have to go back for certainty and check their review. I shouldn't notice that. I also mentioned that I did not think it was enough to make any difference in gameplay though. The FW on my 259QM is 105 and no idea what Rtings was for their review. My eyes don't agree with the OD60 vs OD120.

I'd have to look at my Omen X 25f for FW. The 25f is extremely, extremely good imo. These are literally so close in performance and imo calibrated hard to tell a difference. The 259 has the black EQ. The Omen has a far superior Omen Software control panel though some options are missing that aren't for my x 27 which is really weird. Its such a unique time to purchase monitors. TN has really come a long ways. IPS is making grounds. I do literally get paid to play games and between the two I just can't tell enough of a difference. If you haven't seen Bijan Jamshidi YouTube channel check it out specifically in regards to the MAG251RX (the software a lone makes owning this extremely tantalizing). I think some have echo'd here that the differences are becoming so minuscule that you won't tell the difference. They are probably right. The issue is I could tell the difference on the ULMB and I can tell the difference between my G Pro Wireless, my Razor Ultimate (have the mini as well), and my hard wired mice. Thats been debunked so placebo? Won't argue but a person will always know what they know.

I'll personally grab a 360hz monitor and check it out unless Benq drops a bombshell which I don't expect. I believe they shit the bed this time and how the 2546S was handled was a great indicator to me the time in R&D either hasn't been well spent or they have some brutally poor communication internally. If they drop a bomb someone needs a major bonus. With no announcements and the production time typically associated with announcements unless something is crazy under wraps (kudos if that's the case) it would seem to be one of the best kept secrets hands down.

Sept is going to be a fun a month. Can't wait to see how nVidia will spin the new 3000 series cards (watch the 3090 will be spun into the best thing ever though you know due to Samsung yields being so low on 7nm its a paper launch) which it likely won't be but I'll buy anyway lol.

Find a place with a good return policy. Buy one and try it and go with what your eyes say. I love humanbenchmark because I feel this tells me what I need to know as well as aimlabs. UFO test are there as well as my favorites. Likely panel variances maybe I'm not sure but what I see isn't always what I am seeing online that I "should be seeing".
Can you try the Omen X25 vs the VG259QM in a gaming scenario where you need to flick? Because I'm pretty s ure you'll see a difference

diakou
Posts: 83
Joined: 09 Aug 2020, 11:28

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by diakou » 02 Sep 2020, 12:25

A Solid lad wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 06:04
What are you even on about?
I never said anything about pros being able to tell latency differences, or them using the fastest gear.
I explicitly said they use the mouse with which they perform their best... regardless of the specs.

We have the same exact point of view on the whole matter... read my post again to realise that.
If your viewpoint agrees with mine, then that is my bad for perceiving it to be different and I apologize for thinking otherwise. When I read your text (and I did read it more than once) it came off as using PROs as a solid argument to why they choose worse gear as an argument to latency not mattering or them knowing better about latency than us. Indeed, their usage of specific mice is comfort very often in FPS, thus even if latency might be slightly worse, they feel better with it. Some of them understand it's a trade-off, some literally do not care and just use whatever they're being told to use (or sponsored gear) and some genuinely think their mice is "better" (but placebo is a very strong effect, so it's not worlds end.)

I've just heard the arguments many times, actually way too many times that I felt the need to comment on it or spread awareness through discussion. Since ultimately the people who use those arguments even if with good intentions, lead us further away from less inputlag and better conditions as they can sway consumer markets and remove the need for innovation by the bigger companies.

User avatar
speancer
Posts: 241
Joined: 03 May 2020, 04:26
Location: EU

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by speancer » 02 Sep 2020, 13:16

A Solid lad wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 10:38
AddictFPS wrote:Is very fun also see how the FPS Test Setup include a wireless mouse, that is well know that add a bit of input lag

Seems there still being a small difference

One Pro Player can win bucks in one tournament, but also promoting a mouse model ;) Which of two task fills pocket more ?
Please stop... you're embarrassing us.

First off:
Yes, Razer's and Logitech's recent wired mice are indeed 1-3ms faster than their wireless brethren, but the GPW, RVU, G703, etc. are still faster than most older wired gaming mice, which are still being widely used by high level esport players, so the GPW was perfectly sufficient for this test... the faults with LTT' video lie elsewhere.

Second:
Top CS players will swap most of their peripherals, like keyboards, headsets, etc. for more money... but not their mice.
They are fanatics who want to win at all costs, which means they will use the mouse with which they perform their best.
You're delusional if you think otherwise.
(Many pro GPW users aren't even sponsored by Logitech... and many Logitech sponsored players use Zowie mice.)
Thanks for posting this, you relieved me from answering on that again, I was like "duh" :P
diakou wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 12:25
I've just heard the arguments many times, actually way too many times that I felt the need to comment on it or spread awareness through discussion. Since ultimately the people who use those arguments even if with good intentions, lead us further away from less inputlag and better conditions as they can sway consumer markets and remove the need for innovation by the bigger companies.
It's funny you say that in a topic that includes discussion about Logitech G PRO Wireless' latency and legitimacy of recommending gear according to what professional players use, as Logitech G PRO Wireless actually is THE revolutionary mouse with super-low wireless latency, and the first wireless mouse which made it so widely into e-sport scene, so that doesn't lead us further away from advancement, it drives the advancement further, it's an innovation which pro players embraced, so it's not like pros are clueless about their gear and following their choice is wrong, it's totally fine to recommend what they use to others, and it's a valid argument, because people who play for hundreds of thousands of dollars would not use gear that'd limit them. I think some people care too much about numbers instead of developing actual skills. I even dare to claim that such small latency differences that we're discussing are negligible in general, as they are still lower than what people can actually perceive. There is certain threshold, when if we're below it, the differences are so small that they're almost non existent. Pros use G PRO Wireless, because it really is an amazing mouse, so their choice is valid and backed up by tests, and it shows that even more innovative mice like this would be welcome, because they get appreciated. TechPowerUp measured G PRO Wireless' latency at 0.5 - 1.0 ms, which is NOTHING, it's completely negligible and beyond human perception. G PRO Wireless' click latency is also below human perception capabilities, it's impossible to tell a difference comparing it to wired mice. I disagree that following e-sport players' choices is a bad thing, especially that so many of them actually switched to high-end wireless mice, which really are that good and revolutionary, so that works against stagnation and fuels further development, if even professionals are willing to make that change and choose wireless mice. Also, the monitor that most CS:GO pro players use (BenQ Zowie XL2546) turned out to be the best in terms of motion clarity and performance for competitive FPS from all monitors I tested so far. What's more, I'd bet that pro players do have specialists who advice them on the hardware they use, as there's so much on stake on tournaments that it'd rather not be left unattended. I can't imagine allowing a pro player to use insufficient gear.
Main display (TV/PC monitor): LG 42C21LA (4K 120 Hz OLED / WBE panel)
Tested displays: ASUS VG259QM/VG279QM [favourite LCD FPS display] (280 Hz IPS) • Zowie XL2546K/XL2540K/XL2546 (240 Hz TN DyAc) • Dell S3222DGM [favourite LCD display for the best blacks, contrast and panel uniformity] (165 Hz VA) • Dell Alienware AW2521HFLA (240 Hz IPS) • HP Omen X 25f (240 Hz TN) • MSI MAG251RX (240 Hz IPS) • Gigabyte M27Q (170 Hz IPS) • Acer Predator XB273X (240 Hz IPS G-SYNC) • Acer Predator XB271HU (165 Hz IPS G-SYNC) • Acer Nitro XV272UKV (170 Hz IPS) • Acer Nitro XV252QF (390 Hz IPS) • LG 27GN800 (144 Hz IPS) • LG 27GL850 (144 Hz nanoIPS) • LG 27GP850 (180 Hz nanoIPS) • Samsung Odyssey G7 (240 Hz VA)

OS: Windows 11 Pro GPU: Palit GeForce RTX 4090 GameRock OC CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D + be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 + Arctic MX-6 RAM: 32GB (2x16GB dual channel) DDR5 Kingston Fury Beast Black 6000 MHz CL30 (fully optimized primary and secondary timings by Buildzoid for SK Hynix die on AM5 platform) PSU: Corsair RM1200x SHIFT 1200W (ATX 3.0, PCIe 5.0 12VHPWR 600W) SSD1: Kingston KC3000 1TB NVMe PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD2: Corsair Force MP510 960GB PCIe 3.0 x4 MB: ASUS ROG STRIX X670E-A GAMING WIFI (GPU PCIe 5.0 x16, NVMe PCIe 5.0 x4) CASE: be quiet! Silent Base 802 Window White CASE FANS: be quiet! Silent Wings 4 140mm PWM (3x front, 1x rear, 1x top rear, positive pressure) MOUSE: Logitech G PRO X Superlight (white) Lightspeed wireless MOUSEPAD: ARTISAN FX HIEN (wine red, soft, XL) KEYBOARD: Logitech G915 TKL (white, GL Tactile) Lightspeed wireless HEADPHONES: Sennheiser Momentum 4 Wireless (white) 24-bit 96 KHz + Sennheiser BTD600 Bluetooth 5.2 aptX Adaptive CHAIR: Herman Miller Aeron (graphite, fully loaded, size C)

diakou
Posts: 83
Joined: 09 Aug 2020, 11:28

Re: ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

Post by diakou » 02 Sep 2020, 14:39

speancer wrote:
02 Sep 2020, 13:16
I can't imagine allowing a pro player to use insufficient gear.
This is why I'm spreading awareness because people like yourself are still stuck thinking this is the case. Hey man, in 2016, a less "known" team, but were popular in mobile games specifically vainglory was my organization and sponsor. Through them I got to visit facilities and experience how other PROs in other genres from teams such as TSM practice, play the game on stage and more. There is very little work done on optimization of a pro players gear outside of the minimal. League of Legends players as an example in end of 2019 (unsure if it still holds up) are playing on 240hz monitors capped at 144hz on-stage because they're struggling to get it to work smoothly past 144, some players at home however are able to play it running well at 240hz, it's just optimization problems. What do you do now? Why is no one fighting for it? It has a huge impact? Image

In overwatch league, let's use surefour, one of the few pros who did speak out (meaning he's most likely more latency sensitive, which is also different from player to player)specifically mentions that OW league PCs couldn't even run at 240 fps so he has started practicing at home on 200 due to it? Where's the help here? You can't imagine it, but here it is.
phpBB [video]


In 2018 I joined an organization called Gankstars which was a part of the H1Z1 Pro League. I got to visit almost every single Pro League team house there while I was living in the team house, including my own players. Everyone had varying monitors of good and bad 240hz or 144hz monitors at the time, majority on 144hz (like very, very few had 240)and a big difference in who had what. These includes, TSM, Echo Fox, Cloud 9 just to name a few. The offical monitor they used on stage was a PG248Q. Many of the players had monitors that were worse and many had monitors that were better, majority of it was provided by the orgs themselves. How is it that they're playing on different monitors, with different color calibrations and VERY big varying total inputlag/response times between models. To reach flow or the zone as an athlete, you require yourself to be feeling challenged while being completely in sync with your environment and game, meaning you can not feel any sort of fluctuation or unfamiliarity as this will outright prevent you from reaching optimal performance. This threshold ALSO varies from pro to pro. These are big-time organizations.

In 2019, I joined a Norwegian organization with big investments as an attempt to be a breakthrough org from Norway as we are a country with great athletic resources that can be used in the Esports direction, mental coaches, performance coaches and more from years of Ski'ing olympics experience. None of these coaches knew what to do about inputlag, none of the performance coaches knew what to say about latency and how to avoid it from impacting the players outside of using analogies for how sub-optimal environmental changes or a bad day affects their top performing ski'ing athletes in the olympics, which unfortunately did not help. Some players in this org were fortnite players (where one also qualified for the fortnite world championship in singles, but then left the team before the event itself) These players all had varying degrees of monitors, from very poor 1st gen 240hz panels, finalmouse ultralight 2 capetown (swearing that this is the best mouse ever possible) even though XM1, Viper, M1k, M4 is better.

I am telling you all this because the truth is, as long as we keep saying, 2ms here, 3ms there, 1ms here, 0.5ms here is not perceivable (even though we know the human body is goddamn incredible) they all stack up, they start becoming factors. And the more we keep denying it and using logic such as "look at the pros" we sincerely start going the wrong path again as shown by your post. It prevents consumer markets and companies from caring about pushing it forward. It prevents game developers from correctly frametesting their games for better sync and optimal rendering pipelines for lower latencies and even stutter/tearing, it prevents game developers from caring about correct flip model implementations. It prevents players from reaching their true potential for better esports entertainment value.

And lastly, people are different, thresholds are different for latency perception, it is unacceptable to leave others behind because they have a lower threshold of acceptance. It's the same as if a basketball player told his coaches his shoes are kinda sticky and everyone ignoring him because they can't see it or feel what he's feeling as it's so minuscule, but there is a difference, his game is thrown off. It's an extreme example. There's another example of; a player practicing on 240hz, going to a competition where the rest of them have been practicing 60-144hz and the competition is providing 144hz monitors as the latency differences are very small between that and a 240. The 240hz player will literally not be able to adapt to the 144 in time (sometimes never at all) while the people who are playing on sub-optimal setups would only get a net-benefit from playing on a higher hz monitor (240) given very little time to adjust.

I hope this explains that I'm genuinely not making bullshit about pros, I literally have competed and been a part of orgs for 5 years, reaching top 10 in a game called Battlerite for fun in europe, reaching top 50 (peak 47) in EUW league of legends in season 3 before I moved on to the game I play today called Brawlhalla. Including winning the world championship in that game in 2016.

The landscape is bad, but it's improving with time and this is a hidden issue that not many have talked about as to how players are having such different performance. Everyone always hypothesized "they're better at home because of comfort" when the reality might be much darker then that, they're not able to adapt to LAN environments due to their low thresholds for game variance (higher latency on setups at competitions etc) while their competitors do not feel the same problems because there's different thresholds from player to player. This needs to be corrected and will be taking bigger and bigger strides now with more research papers and consumer marketing being focused around latency such as NVIDIA's reflex announcement.
Last edited by diakou on 12 Oct 2020, 08:16, edited 3 times in total.

Post Reply