esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

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Discorz
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Discorz » 25 Oct 2022, 09:19

styhk wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 08:05
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The person who posted this claims that the data came from AUO official. Afaik these data are "without any overdrive". I guess with overdrive, the response time could be even faster than the 360Hz TN. :lol:
I really like the MPRT vs LCRT axis approach of this chart. Although Y axis doesn't make much sense, its way off. How can MPRT be higher than initial? Can only get lower if we strobe the backlight/bfi. Still even if we assume these are all without strobing MPRT is incorrect. Perhaps X axis (LC Response) is more accurate. "240Hz Fast TN" being on par with new 360Hz TN. If we ignore the MPRT axis than PG would be 0,5ms slower than 360 TN.
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Oct 2022, 19:11

Discorz wrote:
25 Oct 2022, 09:19
I really like the MPRT vs LCRT axis approach of this chart. Although Y axis doesn't make much sense, its way off. How can MPRT be higher than initial? Can only get lower if we strobe the backlight/bfi. Still even if we assume these are all without strobing MPRT is incorrect. Perhaps X axis (LC Response) is more accurate. "240Hz Fast TN" being on par with new 360Hz TN. If we ignore the MPRT axis than PG would be 0,5ms slower than 360 TN.
MPRT for sample-and-hold can be much longer than a refresh cycle, if LCD GtG is slow enough to start to retard MPRT, since GtG taking longer to go beyond 10% and 90% thresholds can also push MPRT measurements longer than a refresh cycle -- if the GtG thresholds are such that the MPRT thresholds also shift.

MPRT100% can, in fact, look terrible, on ultra-slow LCDs, e.g. 33ms 60Hz LCDs.

MPRT100% (0%->100%) can just never be shorter than the largest of frametime or refreshtime (whichever is the biggest number).

Chart seems accurate-ish, although OLED has faster GtG than that, though they seem to have rounded off to the nearest 1ms.

I also like plotting GtG and MPRT into the same graph, it's a good visualization, and is also related to some research I am doing on new motion metrics.
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Discorz » 27 Oct 2022, 01:21

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
26 Oct 2022, 19:11
MPRT for sample-and-hold can be much longer than a refresh cycle, if LCD GtG is slow enough to start to retard MPRT, since GtG taking longer to go beyond 10% and 90% thresholds can also push MPRT measurements longer than a refresh cycle -- if the GtG thresholds are such that the MPRT thresholds also shift.

Chart seems accurate-ish, although OLED has faster GtG than that, though they seem to have rounded off to the nearest 1ms.
I agree, but if the chart was taking GtG disruption into account then 120Hz OLED would not be at faster 6.7 ms MPRT. Its scored faster than what its capable of for sample-and-hold. So who knows how was this compiled.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
26 Oct 2022, 19:11
I also like plotting GtG and MPRT into the same graph, it's a good visualization, and is also related to some research I am doing on new motion metrics.
It really is nice. I wish I had thought of it.
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Dalek » 01 Nov 2022, 15:23

One of the first reviews! I love how you can switch to a 25" mode with 1080p! this will definitely be my next monitor (assuming that no OLED monitors beat this monitor next year). Maybe worth posting it's own thread shortly?

phpBB [video]


Edit: LG announced the 27" 1440p 240hz OLED Ultragear 27GR95QE. This will be my next monitor :D
Last edited by Dalek on 27 Nov 2022, 06:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Nov 2022, 01:33

Discorz wrote:
27 Oct 2022, 01:21
I agree, but if the chart was taking GtG disruption into account then 120Hz OLED would not be at faster 6.7 ms MPRT. Its scored faster than what its capable of for sample-and-hold. So who knows how was this compiled.
I really dislike MPRT10%-90% when it comes to OLEDs. It's such uselessness to say MPRT is 6.7ms for 1/120sec GtG=0.

Any new metric we develop will obsolete the silly 10% and 90% threshold, especially for MPRT, because on OLED, MPRT0-10% is equally as visible as MPRT10-20% as equally visible as MPRT20-30% and so on [..] ... as MPRT80-90% as MPRT90-100%.

The fact is that with GtG near zero, squarewave refresh cycles create MPRT0-100% with almost exactly 20% more motion blur than MPRT10%-90%.

So MPRT is very compromised when you say MPRT 6.7ms for a 120Hz 0ms GtG display -- because the below-10% and above-90% is equally as visible as any 10% slice of the whole MPRT line.

We are looking at developing a new industry standard motion blur metric that combines GtG and MPRT, that can sync up pursuit camera and photodiode measurements and human eye, even more accurately than before.

We still need cutoff thresholds, but I think 1% should do fine -- even a $25 Arduino photodiode + opamp can measure GtG all the way down to 1% especially if you average repeat-refresh-cycle GtG measurements (to add more bitdepth to dark GtG transitions). So even pixel transitions from 0nit->1nit and 1nit->0nit can be measured accurately in a $25 BOM.

We already have an in-house tester. We are considering opensourcing our tester in a dual-model, where Blur Busters (A) provides open source circuit diagram, and (B) sells a high-cost version (a few hundred dollars) that includes technical support and Patreon-style perks. Those on a tight budget can go for option (A).
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Discorz » 02 Nov 2022, 02:40

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 01:33
I really dislike MPRT10%-90% when it comes to OLEDs. It's such uselessness to say MPRT is 6.7ms for 1/120sec GtG=0.
10-90% MPRT? Oh god! What the heck is that? I'll pretend I never heard of it.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 01:33
We are looking at developing a new industry standard motion blur metric that combines GtG and MPRT, that can sync up pursuit camera and photodiode measurements and human eye, even more accurately than before.

We already have an in-house tester. We are considering opensourcing our tester in a dual-model, where Blur Busters (A) provides open source circuit diagram, and (B) sells a high-cost version (a few hundred dollars) that includes technical support and Patreon-style perks. Those on a tight budget can go for option (A).
I'm really happy to hear that. Blur Busters is about to make a big move, a big change for display world.
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Nov 2022, 04:53

Discorz wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 02:40
I'm really happy to hear that. Blur Busters is about to make a big move, a big change for display world.
We have to be absolutely sure we'll not be a "Failed Kickstarter" if we launch the tester. So it has to have a reasonably healthy profit margin to fund its extremely expensive software-development costs, despite a low hardware BOM. It's essentially a glorified branded "enhanced Ardunio style microcontroller" product after all, but with some sheer Blur Busters software brillance nobody else is doing.

I've modified it with a surprising Apple-style "One More Thing" that no other tester has, which I'll keep hiding in the wings.

Tentative dual-business-model for the tester is highly attractive given Blur Buster's "free display tests" legacy -- where hobbyists can build their own and manufacturers/reviewers can purchase fully supported preassembled kit.

Still need a bit of capital and/or software developer skillz to frontload some further software development, and right now we're doing other contracts with display manufacturers on some unrelated things, before we launch such a photodiode tester. Could be partial or fully opensource software depending on if I can make the numbers work... Software is >90% of the $$$ of this thing, that needs to be covered somehow.

There are other possible business models the Blur Busters tester may adopt instead, but my favourite is dual-business-model (open source DIY build your own option + also sell fully supported preassembled units by those who want to pay to support Blur Busters or need full commercial support)

Being that said, it's been repeatedly shelved too many times than I'd like (Pandemic etc). I'm open to ideas on how to assemble some ironclad business models for the hardware-based universal display tester while satisfying the Blur Busters free-display-testing-inventions legacy. PM or email mark [at] blurbusters.com
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Discorz » 04 Nov 2022, 03:28

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
02 Nov 2022, 04:53
We have to be absolutely sure we'll not be a "Failed Kickstarter" if we launch the tester
I feel like we're about to hit another pandemic era, or something similar. So that might postpone it even further. Too much weird stuff is going on globally. Something's cooking, or better said boiling already.
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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by SvenL » 06 Nov 2022, 11:30

Optimum Tech has just published a review for this monitor!

Here is the TestUFO (compared to ZOWIE XL2566K and Asus PG259QN)
Testufo Asus PG27AQN
Testufo Asus PG27AQN
Bildschirmfoto 2022-11-06 um 17.24.30.png (1.48 MiB) Viewed 6506 times

Source: https://youtu.be/xDTWG_3edpo?t=316

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Re: esports 1440p 360hz displays announced

Post by Discorz » 06 Nov 2022, 12:14

He compared different movement speeds! Faster moving speeds will always look blurrier/smearer. So its not really a apples to apples comparison. Just something to keep in mind.

differing movement speeds XL2566K PG27AQN PG259QN.jpg
differing movement speeds XL2566K PG27AQN PG259QN.jpg (100.49 KiB) Viewed 6494 times
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