stuttering 60fps

Talk about AMD's FreeSync and VESA AdaptiveSync, which are variable refresh rate technologies. They also eliminate stutters, and eliminate tearing. List of FreeSync Monitors.
roro13200
Posts: 66
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 11:27

stuttering 60fps

Post by roro13200 » 08 Jun 2024, 16:08

Hi all

I encounter a problem with gsync (or rather freesync because I have an AMD card and a fressync screen)

when I activate freesync, I have enormous stuterring and it is absolutely not smooth, especially on games that run at 60fps,

To get around the problem I used raw and modified the freesync range to 65/240 instead of 48/240.

If someone could enlighten me on this problem I would be interested, because I don't find it normal to use it raw to play simple games at 60fps and freesync thank you!

Luviaz
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Apr 2024, 16:34

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by Luviaz » 10 Jun 2024, 08:37

Let's first rule out the basics:
Did you have Freesync enabled in both AMD Software and monitor setting ?

Is your game configure to run in Fullscreen/Borderless Fullscreen ? Freesync will not work with windowed application. It works with every api as long as the 3D application occupy the whole screen.

Did you use a frame cap to keep your FPS in the FreeSync range ?

With those out of the way, try to identify the nature of your stutter. Is it sync related-stutter, or hardware-related stutter ? You can do that with a visual frame time graph ( with RTSS, or the built-in OSD in Adrenaline ) . If you find the stuttering correspond to frame time fluctuations, it's hardware related. If the stuttering happens with a flat time time graph, it's sync related.

If it's hardware, there little you can do. VRR is not supposed to alleviate those stutter. You can either upgrade or find specific patch, fix for the game.

If is sync, then there's maybe a misconfiguration. You mentioned "60fps games". In my experience, quite a number of 60 fps games also force a 60hz refresh rate. Without a corresponding FPS cap, this would essentially disengage Freesync and leave you with only Vsync.

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jorimt
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Joined: 04 Nov 2016, 10:44
Location: USA

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by jorimt » 10 Jun 2024, 09:36

roro13200 wrote:
08 Jun 2024, 16:08
I see you DMed me a copy of this same question, so I'll answer here. First off, what's your monitor model and general system specs (CPU, GPU, ram, SSD, etc)?
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48C4 Scaler: RetroTINK 4k Consoles: Dreamcast, PS2, PS3, Switch, Wii, Xbox, Analogue Pocket + Dock VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

roro13200
Posts: 66
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 11:27

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by roro13200 » 10 Jun 2024, 12:35

thank you for your response, I will try to be clear despite my poor English :)

First of all for the material
cpu 5600X
gpu rx7800XT
16gb ram 3200mhz
500GB nvme SSD

the iyaama 2K 240HZ screen (freesync premium)

I have clearly identified that the problem occurs when freesync is activated, when I deactivate it with no other synchronization or even vsync there is no problem

the problem is even worse when my second screen is turned on (Samsung G5 165HZ)
I always run games in full screen.

as explained for games at 60 fps, I ensure that lfc is active all the time otherwise it is literally unplayable

Luviaz
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Apr 2024, 16:34

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by Luviaz » 11 Jun 2024, 00:29

Ah...You mentioned a dual monitor set up.

That's likely the problem. There's lots of reports on stuttering with dual monitor setup with VRR. AMD themselves has a known bug of some sort if I recall correctly.
Turning off Freesync seems to be the solution.

roro13200
Posts: 66
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 11:27

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by roro13200 » 12 Jun 2024, 14:49

it's boring, why take out cards with several video outputs if you can't use VRR afterwards

Luviaz
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Apr 2024, 16:34

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by Luviaz » 13 Jun 2024, 03:43

It is seems to be the case with multiple, varied specs monitor setups.

The only verified working VRR use case with multiple monitor is a Eye Infinity set up with identical monitors

yamaci1775
Posts: 23
Joined: 27 Jan 2019, 02:29

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by yamaci1775 » 10 Jul 2024, 02:49

I'm having a similar issue in AC Mirage. I have a 144 hz screen and I've tried in game, RTSS and NVIDIA's frame cap to cap the game to 60 but result is a stuttery, non smooth 60 FPS that constantly has microstutters and skips on the screen. I can confirm VRR is working with monitor OSD but it also constantly shoots up to 144 hz randomly and is very erratic. Of course monitor OSD is unreliable and only thing it should be used for is to determine whether VRR works or not, in this case, it clearly does. Yeah, I don't see tearing either, and I've tried in game vsync, driver vsync and various different configurations.

Then I tried disabling vrr, setting the screen to 60 hz and then enabling just Vsync. and voila, game now presents smoothly, like super smooth, so much so that I cannot go back to how microstuttery VRR 60 FPS feels in this game.

I'm really at a loss here. Only thing I can think of is that Vsync creates a buffer that somehow erases certain microstutters caused by asset streaming. In that case, VRR should be deemed incompatible with such games. But no one talks about that. Besides, almost half the games I've played over the last year had some kind of streaming/asset loading stutter. I don't necessarily have a top of the line SSD, but at least it is a 2.4 GB/s NVME SSD so it should be, to some extent, enough.

Anyways, it is pretty saddening. Vsync 60 hz method works but of course has some lag. It is acceptable. The actual problem is, AC Mirage is a game where I can get a consistent 60 FPS but in some other games, that is not going to be a thing. So if another game that I cannot get 60 FPS also produces asset streaming hitches that can only be get ridden of with some kind of Vsync, then it means I'd have to go for half rate vsync. And in that case, half rate vsync on PC through nvidia control panel is simply "unplayable" compared to the 30 FPS modes found on consoles. By smoothness, yes, it achieves the same visual smoothness as consoles, I can clearly attest to that. But playability? To me it feels like vsync and half vsync on PC has unnecessary amounts of additional input lag compared to what consoles have, even when compared to a barebones PS4 at that (yes, I did direct comparisons using the same gamepad and monitor in a variety of games).

Anyways it is pretty sad. AC Mirage and Starfield are two games that are riddled with streaming stutters that I can only seem to get away if I rely on Vsync. But then Vsync practically forces me to target 60 FPS, which is impossible for my lowend CPU in some scenes and scenarios. And when I would be fine with 30 FPS itself on consoles, I'm greeted by unplayable levels of input oddity on PC.

yamaci1775
Posts: 23
Joined: 27 Jan 2019, 02:29

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by yamaci1775 » 10 Jul 2024, 06:36

I went ahead and video proofed the issue. First video is with 60 FPS cap, monitor set to 144 hz with VRR enabled. It stutters and frames keep skipping, creating a very unpleasant experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edxIob_GetY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TChbo0gFHkM

Second is with the same 60 FPS cap but at 60 hz with Vsync. It flows smoothly without skips and stutters.

Maybe someone will be able to diagnose what is the issue by examining the frame skips in the VRR exhibition. I have no clue at this point. Exact same location, exact same settings.

Examples of frame skips in the vrr video: 0:09 to the left of the image
0:12 visible judder
0:27 image warps

You may notice more, I won't list them. It just judders, warps endlessly.

Luviaz
Posts: 17
Joined: 07 Apr 2024, 16:34

Re: stuttering 60fps

Post by Luviaz » 12 Jul 2024, 13:44

yamaci1775 wrote:
10 Jul 2024, 02:49
I'm having a similar issue in AC Mirage. I have a 144 hz screen and I've tried in game, RTSS and NVIDIA's frame cap to cap the game to 60 but result is a stuttery, non smooth 60 FPS that constantly has microstutters and skips on the screen. I can confirm VRR is working with monitor OSD but it also constantly shoots up to 144 hz randomly and is very erratic. Of course monitor OSD is unreliable and only thing it should be used for is to determine whether VRR works or not, in this case, it clearly does. Yeah, I don't see tearing either, and I've tried in game vsync, driver vsync and various different configurations.

Then I tried disabling vrr, setting the screen to 60 hz and then enabling just Vsync. and voila, game now presents smoothly, like super smooth, so much so that I cannot go back to how microstuttery VRR 60 FPS feels in this game.

I'm really at a loss here. Only thing I can think of is that Vsync creates a buffer that somehow erases certain microstutters caused by asset streaming. In that case, VRR should be deemed incompatible with such games. But no one talks about that. Besides, almost half the games I've played over the last year had some kind of streaming/asset loading stutter. I don't necessarily have a top of the line SSD, but at least it is a 2.4 GB/s NVME SSD so it should be, to some extent, enough.

Anyways, it is pretty saddening. Vsync 60 hz method works but of course has some lag. It is acceptable. The actual problem is, AC Mirage is a game where I can get a consistent 60 FPS but in some other games, that is not going to be a thing. So if another game that I cannot get 60 FPS also produces asset streaming hitches that can only be get ridden of with some kind of Vsync, then it means I'd have to go for half rate vsync. And in that case, half rate vsync on PC through nvidia control panel is simply "unplayable" compared to the 30 FPS modes found on consoles. By smoothness, yes, it achieves the same visual smoothness as consoles, I can clearly attest to that. But playability? To me it feels like vsync and half vsync on PC has unnecessary amounts of additional input lag compared to what consoles have, even when compared to a barebones PS4 at that (yes, I did direct comparisons using the same gamepad and monitor in a variety of games).

Anyways it is pretty sad. AC Mirage and Starfield are two games that are riddled with streaming stutters that I can only seem to get away if I rely on Vsync. But then Vsync practically forces me to target 60 FPS, which is impossible for my lowend CPU in some scenes and scenarios. And when I would be fine with 30 FPS itself on consoles, I'm greeted by unplayable levels of input oddity on PC.
Your post is pretty much self-concluded. Vsync will deliver a smoother experience in exchange of input latency. That "buffer" you mention is pre-rendered/queued frames that can help iron out frame time inconsistency, which also causes input lag. When you use a CPU frame limiter like RTSS, essentially 0 frame will be queued and VRR does it job to show you exactly how your game is running. That stutter is likely to be frame time stutter, not sync-related stutter so there's pretty much nothing to troubleshoot.

And yes stutter has plagued many PC games over the years. That's the nature of this platform I'm afraid.

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