Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Talk about AMD's FreeSync and VESA AdaptiveSync, which are variable refresh rate technologies. They also eliminate stutters, and eliminate tearing. List of FreeSync Monitors.
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Avantu
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Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by Avantu » 04 Jun 2020, 17:50

Hello,

Recently I bought 5700 xt and it is running with overclocked ryzen 1600 and HP Omen X27 240hz. I tried different Radeon settings and settled on vsync + freesync + ingame cap 237Hz, just like blurbusters recommended for gsync. However Radeon software doesn't turn on vsync like Nvidia does, it only works for opengl. Which vsync should I choose in eg. Cs go? I play Cs go on native 1440p so I get ~200fps. Idk if I should opt in for double or triple buffer. I also don't use anti lag or enhanced sync (I guess I'm right on not using this?), I want to have unified setting for all games so they feel similar but apex and warzone are way more demanding.

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jorimt
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by jorimt » 04 Jun 2020, 18:21

Avantu wrote:
04 Jun 2020, 17:50
Which vsync should I choose in eg. Cs go?
Double buffer; VRR (FreeSync/G-SYNC) natively functions on a double buffer. Triple Buffer is never necessary with VRR, and should typically be avoided (for VRR).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
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fowteen
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by fowteen » 05 Jun 2020, 00:12

You can leave enhanced sync off since you are using freesync with the fps cap however Radeon Anti Lag can be turned on. Hardware Unboxed did an in-depth video on it and you get lower input lag and very negligible performance drops with it on however some games have it worse than others so it would be best to watch his video to get a full understanding on it.

Avantu
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by Avantu » 05 Jun 2020, 02:33

jorimt wrote:
04 Jun 2020, 18:21
Avantu wrote:
04 Jun 2020, 17:50
Which vsync should I choose in eg. Cs go?
Double buffer; VRR (FreeSync/G-SYNC) natively functions on a double buffer. Triple Buffer is never necessary with VRR, and should typically be avoided (for VRR).
That's what i wanted to know, thanks!
fowteen wrote:
05 Jun 2020, 00:12
You can leave enhanced sync off since you are using freesync with the fps cap however Radeon Anti Lag can be turned on. Hardware Unboxed did an in-depth video on it and you get lower input lag and very negligible performance drops with it on however some games have it worse than others so it would be best to watch his video to get a full understanding on it.
Before when i had gtx 1070 i didn't use frame limiter, vsync + ultra low latency mode and gsync in nvidia panel was enough, cs go felt smooth. Now on radeon warzone felt smooth but apex seemed stuttering (i played this 2 titles with freesync and antilag but no vsync because didn't know back then that radeon can't turn on vsync on his own). IDK if i want to use anti lag, it could help with warzone because the game is gpu-limited, but in CS GO it would be overkill, actually i think that in CS GO my OCd Ryzen 1600 isn't enough as my card rarely utilise more than 60%. I want to have same settings for all games if it is possible so i think anti-lag off is fine. 240Hz TN display is fast enough on it's own so it shouldn't be problem. I would rather have bit more latency (consistent latency isn't bad compared to fluctuations) than stutter. But i may be wrong?

axaro1
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by axaro1 » 24 Jun 2020, 08:28

jorimt wrote:
04 Jun 2020, 18:21
Double buffer; VRR (FreeSync/G-SYNC) natively functions on a double buffer. Triple Buffer is never necessary with VRR, and should typically be avoided (for VRR).
Can I ask you a question? Why do you recommend capped freesync + vsync?

I don't know the logic behind it but I too feel like (driver level)vsync + Freesync + 235fps cap feels so much better than standard Freesync + 235fps cap.
VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS|R5 3600 4.45ghz 1.245V June 2020 batch :o | 3733mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR] 16-20-21-37-58 | 5700XT Gaming OC 2064mhz 1112mv

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jorimt
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by jorimt » 24 Jun 2020, 10:32

axaro1 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 08:28
Can I ask you a question? Why do you recommend capped freesync + vsync?

I don't know the logic behind it but I too feel like (driver level)vsync + Freesync + 235fps cap feels so much better than standard Freesync + 235fps cap.
100% tearing prevention within the VRR range. Explanation in the Closing FAQ of my article:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/15/
Wait, why should I enable V-SYNC with G-SYNC again? And why am I still seeing tearing with G-SYNC enabled and V-SYNC disabled? Isn’t G-SYNC suppose to fix that?

The answer is frametime variances.

“Frametime” denotes how long a single frame takes to render. “Framerate” is the totaled average of each frame’s render time within a one second period.

At 144Hz, a single frame takes 6.9ms to display (the number of which depends on the max refresh rate of the display, see here), so if the framerate is 144 per second, then the average frametime of 144 FPS is 6.9ms per frame.

In reality, however, frametime from frame to frame varies, so just because an average framerate of 144 per second has an average frametime of 6.9ms per frame, doesn’t mean all 144 of those frames in each second amount to an exact 6.9ms per; one frame could render in 10ms, the next could render in 6ms, but at the end of each second, enough will hit the 6.9ms render target to average 144 FPS per.

So what happens when just one of those 144 frames renders in, say, 6.8ms (146 FPS average) instead of 6.9ms (144 FPS average) at 144Hz? The affected frame becomes ready too early, and begins to scan itself into the current “scanout” cycle (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen) before the previous frame has a chance to fully display (a.k.a. tearing).

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” allows these instances to occur, even within the G-SYNC range, whereas G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” (what I call “frametime compensation” in this article) allows the module (with average framerates within the G-SYNC range) to time delivery of the affected frames to the start of the next scanout cycle, which lets the previous frame finish in the existing cycle, and thus prevents tearing in all instances.

And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.

For further explanations on this subject see part 1 “Control Panel,” part 4 “Range,” and part 6 “G-SYNC vs. V-SYNC OFF w/FPS Limit” of this article, or read the excerpts below…
As for FreeSync specifically, as far as I'm aware, AMD control panel V-SYNC is spotty and typically only works in OpenGL games I think. You'll probably need to use the in-game V-SYNC option when paired with FreeSync to ensure proper behavior instead.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

axaro1
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by axaro1 » 24 Jun 2020, 10:53

jorimt wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 10:32
axaro1 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 08:28
Can I ask you a question? Why do you recommend capped freesync + vsync?

I don't know the logic behind it but I too feel like (driver level)vsync + Freesync + 235fps cap feels so much better than standard Freesync + 235fps cap.
100% tearing prevention within the VRR range. Explanation in the Closing FAQ of my article:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/15/
Wait, why should I enable V-SYNC with G-SYNC again? And why am I still seeing tearing with G-SYNC enabled and V-SYNC disabled? Isn’t G-SYNC suppose to fix that?

The answer is frametime variances.

“Frametime” denotes how long a single frame takes to render. “Framerate” is the totaled average of each frame’s render time within a one second period.

At 144Hz, a single frame takes 6.9ms to display (the number of which depends on the max refresh rate of the display, see here), so if the framerate is 144 per second, then the average frametime of 144 FPS is 6.9ms per frame.

In reality, however, frametime from frame to frame varies, so just because an average framerate of 144 per second has an average frametime of 6.9ms per frame, doesn’t mean all 144 of those frames in each second amount to an exact 6.9ms per; one frame could render in 10ms, the next could render in 6ms, but at the end of each second, enough will hit the 6.9ms render target to average 144 FPS per.

So what happens when just one of those 144 frames renders in, say, 6.8ms (146 FPS average) instead of 6.9ms (144 FPS average) at 144Hz? The affected frame becomes ready too early, and begins to scan itself into the current “scanout” cycle (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen) before the previous frame has a chance to fully display (a.k.a. tearing).

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” allows these instances to occur, even within the G-SYNC range, whereas G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” (what I call “frametime compensation” in this article) allows the module (with average framerates within the G-SYNC range) to time delivery of the affected frames to the start of the next scanout cycle, which lets the previous frame finish in the existing cycle, and thus prevents tearing in all instances.

And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.

For further explanations on this subject see part 1 “Control Panel,” part 4 “Range,” and part 6 “G-SYNC vs. V-SYNC OFF w/FPS Limit” of this article, or read the excerpts below…
As for FreeSync specifically, as far as I'm aware, AMD control panel V-SYNC is spotty and typically only works in OpenGL games I think. You'll probably need to use the in-game V-SYNC option when paired with FreeSync to ensure proper behavior instead.
Thank you for your explanation, I'll stick to ingame/config file fps limiter + ingame V-Sync, I finished reading Part 1, part 4 and part 6, this is very interesting!
VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS|R5 3600 4.45ghz 1.245V June 2020 batch :o | 3733mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR] 16-20-21-37-58 | 5700XT Gaming OC 2064mhz 1112mv

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jorimt
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by jorimt » 24 Jun 2020, 11:30

axaro1 wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 10:53
Thank you for your explanation, I'll stick to ingame/config file fps limiter + ingame V-Sync, I finished reading Part 1, part 4 and part 6, this is very interesting!
Not a problem, and good to hear ;)
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

ramb0
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by ramb0 » 28 Jul 2020, 22:10

jorimt wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 10:32
As for FreeSync specifically, as far as I'm aware, AMD control panel V-SYNC is spotty and typically only works in OpenGL games I think. You'll probably need to use the in-game V-SYNC option when paired with FreeSync to ensure proper behavior instead.
@jorimt what about vsync with 3rd party app like RTSS? isn't this typically 'better' than using in-game vsync?

also, out of interest, do you ever use ULMB on your XB271HU display - why/why not?

@axaro1 - what sort of FPS are you getting in Apex Legends on your 5700 XT and 1440p resolution? what's the GPU's usage % when playing this game? i have 5700 XT as well and want to get a stable ~144fps, but thinking i may have to go down to 1080p...

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jorimt
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Re: Which vsync should I use for games such as CS GO?

Post by jorimt » 29 Jul 2020, 07:21

ramb0 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 22:10
@jorimt what about vsync with 3rd party app like RTSS? isn't this typically 'better' than using in-game vsync?
I'm not sure I follow? RTSS is an FPS limiter, not a syncing method, so it won't prevent tearing.

If, however, you're referring to RTSS Scanline Sync, then it won't work in conjunction with G-SYNC, as it's effectively trying to do the same thing, but at a fixed refresh rate (tearline steering into the VBLANK).
ramb0 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 22:10
also, out of interest, do you ever use ULMB on your XB271HU display - why/why not?
I've used it before, but I don't regularly, mainly because VRR is my preference. I'm not much on strobing, but that's just me. Part of that is because I tend to stare at the crosshairs (I don't do much eye tracking).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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