Blur Busters Forums

okay so a couple more questions, when you refer to freesync 2 are you talking about freesync premium/pro. What kind of price difference do freesync and freesync 2 monitors have and what differences do do different companies' lfc technology have?

fowteen wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2020, 11:01

when you refer to freesync 2 are you talking about freesync premium/pro.

Yes, they call it FreeSync "Premium" now. And pretty much the only thing "Premium Pro" offers over "Premium" is HDR support.

fowteen wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2020, 11:01

What kind of price difference do freesync and freesync 2 monitors have and what differences do do different companies' lfc technology have?

Regarding price, it varies. FreeSync "Premium" is typically more expensive than standard FreeSync. Beyond that, you'll probably have to research that independently, or ask others here on that.

As for LFC support, if the display supports LFC, the implementation should be the same, regardless of model.

thanks so much for answering all of my questions so far. I think I have one more and that it is there anyway to find out if a freesync monitor is compatible with gsync by looking at its specifications or is the only way to look at reviews/ask people who already own that monitor and have tried using gsync with it.

fowteen wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2020, 11:19

is there anyway to find out if a freesync monitor is compatible with gsync by looking at its specifications or is the only way to look at reviews/ask people who already own that monitor and have tried using gsync with it.

For official G-SYNC Compatible monitors, look here (sort first column by "Type," and refer to "G-SYNC Compatible" entries):
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/pr ... ors/specs/

For unofficially supported monitors, you can take a look at this user-generated list, but it may be incomplete:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/ ... g&sle=true

For GSYNC Compatible, you'll need a supported Nvidia GPU:
https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers ... /related/1

so if you want lfc with a gsync monitor you just need to find a monitor with lfc technology because gsync has no 'premium' version like freesync?

fowteen wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2020, 16:31

so if you want lfc with a gsync monitor you just need to find a monitor with lfc technology because gsync has no 'premium' version like freesync?

This is where it can get confusing quickly.

There are technically four types of G-SYNC now, with the original hardware variants containing a module being "G-SYNC," and "G-SYNC Ultimate" (the difference between the two only being HDR support). These are the most expensive, but guarantee you full LFC support, with an effective 0 to max refresh rate VRR range, dynamic overdrive (reduces ghosting during VRR operation), and for many models, ULMB (a non-G-SYNC hardware module-exclusive strobing mode). Also, no matter what model you buy, you are also guaranteed flawless VRR performance; no frame skipping, blanking or any other issues.

Variant number three of G-SYNC, is official "G-SYNC Compatible," which is a software variant of G-SYNC (no hardware module) that is featured on certified FreeSync displays. These displays have full LFC support with an effective 0 to max refresh rate range, and similar to "G-SYNC" and "G-SYNC Ultimate," typically guarantee you problem-free VRR performance; no frame skipping, blanking or any other issues, no matter what official "G-SYNC Compatible" model you buy, but unlike hardware G-SYNC, with 99% of these models, you miss out on dynamic overdrive (a feature that reduces visible ghosting with variable framerates), as it's very difficult to achieve software-side.

Varient number four of G-SYNC, unofficial G-SYNC Compatible (monitor models that have yet to be tested and certified by Nvidia, or have already failed their tests), is basically the "wild west," where you're not guaranteed either LFC support or a flawless VRR experience. Support of both or either base features (LFC and overall VRR operation) simply depends on the given model of FreeSync monitors that aren't "Officially" G-SYNC Compatible.

learning about this is like entering a new world it's insane. At first I just wanted to buy a 144hz monitor with 1ms response time as I wanted to buy 'the perfect monitor' (only 144hz because I have a pretty low budget) but then learnt about adaptive sync,monitor's that are not 1ms native but are in fact boosted which causes motion blur etc. What do you think is the lowest price range for a 'perfect monitor' that is just 1920x1080 144hz native 1ms freesync as well as gsync (because I currently have an amd gpu but will defintely switch to a nvidia gpu when I can afford it) with lfc and basically nothing bad about it apart from improvements in resolution and refresh rate?

fowteen wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2020, 22:25

At first I just wanted to buy a 144hz monitor with 1ms response time as I wanted to buy 'the perfect monitor' (only 144hz because I have a pretty low budget) but then learnt about adaptive sync,monitor's that are not 1ms native but are in fact boosted which causes motion blur etc.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? I want to make sure you're informed properly, because that doesn't sound right.

For instance, "1ms" GtG on 144Hz monitors, even if they're TN type, is a bit of misnomer, and monitors that report that "1ms" GtG number are actually closer to 3ms GtG on average, with "1ms" only being close to being achieved at higher overdrive levels, which typically cause overshoot (basically reverse ghosting).

Up until this point, we've only been discussing VRR, but there a variety of other factors that determine overall monitor quality and performance.

fowteen wrote: ↑

19 Mar 2020, 22:25

What do you think is the lowest price range for a 'perfect monitor' that is just 1920x1080 144hz native 1ms freesync as well as gsync (because I currently have an amd gpu but will defintely switch to a nvidia gpu when I can afford it) with lfc and basically nothing bad about it apart from improvements in resolution and refresh rate?

That's highly subjective, and depends on your priorities and particular use-case. There are usually trade-offs, e.g. do you want the lowest motion blur possible, the lowest input lag possible, the best picture quality possible, etc? Because you usually can't have all of those at once.

by causes motion blur I meant the overshoot(reverse ghosting) that you are referring to because I heard some monitors are 1ms out of the box which don't have any overshoot and then there are monitor's which you have to use the overdrive setting to achieve 1ms which can cause inverse ghosting but I was wondering if all overdive settings cause this or can you get monitor's that don't cause pixel overshoots after using the overdrive setting

also in a monitor I want to be able to have no screen tearing during all moments of gameplay (variations of fps),no motion blur and lowest input lag with the previous two desires.

fowteen wrote: ↑

20 Mar 2020, 08:51

by causes motion blur I meant the overshoot(reverse ghosting) that you are referring to because I heard some monitors are 1ms out of the box which don't have any overshoot and then there are monitor's which you have to use the overdrive setting to achieve 1ms which can cause inverse ghosting but I was wondering if all overdive settings cause this or can you get monitor's that don't cause pixel overshoots after using the overdrive setting

Again, if you want the absolute lowest GtG on current-gen 144Hz monitors, you want TN-type, but even then, they typically start with native GtG around 4-ish ms, which is then "boosted" via voltage to 2-3ms average with overdrive presets.

The "1ms" number comes into play only for the minimum readings, not the average; few if any 144Hz monitors have an actual "1ms" average GtG response time.

As for overshoot/inverse ghosting, this can typically be avoided by using the medium overdrive settings on a monitor, which balances voltage boosting of overdrive to prevent it.

The irony is the closer you want to get to a 1ms GtG average, the more you're asking for inverse ghosting/overshoot on your typical 144Hz TN gaming panel.

fowteen wrote: ↑

20 Mar 2020, 08:51

also in a monitor I want to be able to have no screen tearing during all moments of gameplay (variations of fps),no motion blur and lowest input lag with the previous two desires.

You can have both low input lag and no tearing with variable framerates, OR you can have the lowest motion blur.

Also, there's no such thing as "no" motion blur on a 144Hz monitor, even with strobing.

There are two types of motion blur on modern LCD panels, pixel response blur, and image persistence blur. Pixel response blur is due to GtG levels, and is responsible for the smearing and ghosting seen in motion. Image persistence on the other hand, is directly tied to refresh rate, and further, the framerate/refresh rate ratio at any given point, and is responsible for the double images seen during motion. E.g. even if your GtG is zero, image persistence blur will still be present, and can only be reduced via black frame insertion/strobing, OR much higher than 144Hz refresh rates paired with a 1:1 framerates (which typically isn't practically achievable yet).

However, strobing has higher input lag than VRR (and requires traditional V-SYNC to prevent tearing), and you need to keep the framerate at your refresh rate at all times to avoid stutter and double images.

I've oversimplified in the extreme to keep things as simple as possible for you, so some semantics and/or accuracy can suffer here (the Chief could expound on this subject, and correct any of my niggles), but that's the 2-minute gist.