Spikes (Animation Time) + Packet Loss

[jack_lawster]

Hello everyone,

I just run the Animation Timing Deviation Test a couple of times and realized that I have regular spikes (see attached image). What really confuses me is that the spikes match a pattern within a game that I play: In Valorant, the game's netstats register regular upstream packet loss but neither I nor my ISP can trace that packet loss (I had PingPlotter run several times for 10-20mins; dsl stats from my router's gui are also excellent), which is why I wanted to ask you if that could be some kind of electrical interference? I already moved the pc to three different rooms/power outlets and tested almost everything in terms of hardware (different routers, different cables, different RAM, CPU, GPU, Motherboard, different pcie and usb to ethernet adapters) so I thought that it could potentially be the computer's case (IO shield, standoff screws). What do you think - could the pattern on the attached image be caused by electrical interference that also affects my ethernet adapters?

Thank you so much in advance and please let me know if I should provide more info!

[RealNC]

If you have any RGB software, uninstall it. It's usually the first thing I recommend in cases like this.

[jack_lawster]

Thank you for your response!
What I did so far:

1) Reset BIOS (only DOCP-Settings active)
2) Fresh Win 10 install
3) Made sure there is no MB manufacturer bloatware
4) Installed Chipset, LAN and Displaydriver from the respective Websites (AMD, Asus/Intel, Nvidia)
5) Installed Valorant to test it
6) Installed Chrome (Ufo tests)

No RGB is connected to the MB headers and the only RGB that is present is the RAM (no software is installed to control it, though)

I already restarted Windows in safe mode with network drivers. The spikes are still there when running them within chrome or edge and I can‘t run Valorant since their Vanguard anti virus thingy needs to be loaded while booting in order to start the game.

[Chief Blur Buster]

- Let's try to exclude Chrome/Chromium engine as a factor. What does FireFox do in Animation Time Graph?

Looking at the tickmarks, they are 486-490 pixels apart from my photoshopped zoom, so they're 243-245 frames apart. If your www.testufo.com/refreshrate reads darn near exactly 240.00 (to nearest two decimal digits), it means something is spiking every 1.01 to 1.02 second.

download/file.php?mode=view&id=3721

spikes.png (3.99 KiB) Viewed 5960 times

Still stumps me. It may very well be internal (defective component/warranty claim/motherboard or GPU), software (glitchy driver), or external (interference). All of them are possible and have happened before.

Not yet enough data to narrow this down further yet, now that we've mostly ruled out most of software. All the low lying apples have vanished. Time to hit the difficult apples.

So it's the much difficult apples hereafter.

I see you did an OS reinstall and safe mode, so that eliminates a lot of possibilities.

- Try testing a very old GPU driver / newer GPU driver too, is another possibility.
- You may have to borrow another computer, or begin resorting to component swaps until it disappears. Begin with testing a different GPU (even if it's an older GPU), then test a different motherboard.
- You can try driver or OS roulette -- e.g. dramatically different OS versions, dramatically different drivers, etc -- e.g. Windows 11 instead of Windows 10 -- older versus newer drivers -- etc.
- If you have a UPS, do a quick offgrid test at least to rule out.

(I have seen this come and go with graphics driver versions)

If you have a UPS barely powerful enough to run your whole computer for a few minutes, try temporarily go completely offgrid (including monitor and Internet). Nothing copper touching the planet. Since you're only running TestUFO, that's lower power than a game, so you can go offgrid only after the computers booted, temporarily lower monitor brightness if necessary, launch TestUFO Animation Time Graph. After the TestUFO loads, disconnect from Internet (pull the Ethernet cord). Next, suddenly unplug your UPS from the power outlet. Now you're offgrid and cordless, no copper. Does the spikes disappear? Probably not, but it's a quick test if you already have a computer UPS, and testing takes only a few minutes unlike laboriously swapping components.

Oh and if you had always been on a UPS for a long time, try bypassing your UPS too, if you've been testing on a UPS all along (e.g. failing UPS power supply) and go completely ongrid too -- at least to rule out a bad UPS that's injecting massive interference. These are all longshot "less than 1% odds" type of tests, but at least quicker tests than component swappings.

Mind you, majority of time, it's been traced to defective software/drivers or defective components, if it wasn't a background app like RGB software.

[jack_lawster]

Thank you for your detailed help with this issue!

I followed your suggestions earlier this morning and
* compared different browsers in safe mode (firefox, chrome, edge) --> spikes are almost identical. Sometimes they are 'smaller' (8ms), sometimes higher (10-12ms), but this is true for every browser when I wait long enough.
* took the time --> You are right, my monitor is running at 240hz and the spikes happen approximately every second.
* downloaded older drivers from 2021 (these were the ones that Asus as the motherboard manufacturer still lists as recommended drivers on their website for this board) --> Identical results.

After all these steps, I started swapping individual components:
* GPU: 2080 OC from Asus instead of my 3080 Ti Aorus Master from Gigabyte --> nothing changed
* RAM: Some older Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3600 MHz (with and without DOCP settings) instead of my Trident Z DDR4 3600 MHz --> nothing changed
* Motherboard: Strix F B550 instead of my Dark Hero VIII --> nothing changed

What I didn't/couldn't test:
* running the setup offgrid (no access to a UPS right now)
* testing a different AM4 CPU (again: no access)
* running Win11 with different components and drivers. I did this, however, a couple of days ago and experienced the same stutters in game. Unfortunately, I didn't know about Blurbusters at that time.

Would it make sense to go after the case next by putting the motherboard on a non-conductive surface or should I go down the Win11 route first?


Again: Thank you so much for your help!

[RealNC]

Try another thing: In the Windows power management settings, switch to "High Performance" mode and see if that helps. Also switch the GPU to "maximum performance" in the GPU driver's control panel.

[jack_lawster]

Thanks for your suggestions! I should've really been more careful with my initial post.

I already tried to enable/disable several settings and made sure to perform resets to the respective factory settings whenever I realized that it didn't change anything.
What I did in terms of settings:

* disabled power saving mode/set to high performance for
a) GPUs
b) Ethernet Adapters
c) Windows power plan

* other Settings
d) CPU: BIOS settings such as PBO for AMD CPUs
e) RAM: DOCP on/off

I also
* installed the GPU into a different PCIe slot
* replaced thermal paste
* made sure that temperatures are definitely not too high (GPU under load max. 65°C, CPU 70°C)

[Chief Blur Buster]

To reconfirm, I am assuming your cyclic stutter behavior (TestUFO) is exactly the same (one stutter per second) in your games.

This is one of those times where we are stumped and you have to do something dramatically different:

- Try a completely different OS (e.g. Win11)
- Try a completely different PC (everything different)
- Try running offgrid (in case it's externally-injected interference)
- If you can't use UPS, try running computer in a new location (different building) to be in a different interference regime -- It has improved TestUFO graphs before

You may have some other defective component, other defective drivers, or some interference, or some other obscure problem that will take forever to troubleshoot along the current path.

What does a DPC latency checker such as LatencyMon graphs say on your computer?

[jack_lawster]

Please excuse my late response but the last couple of days were rather busy for me so I only managed to follow some steps that you recommended me in order to troubleshoot further.

* I switched twice between Win11 and Win10 and there was no difference (again: clean boot without any additional bloat-/ or software in general
* I tried a different PC here at my place and my own computer at my sister's place. I can confirm that the issue was only present on my computer at *both* locations so I guess it has to be a hardware issue?
* I replaced my SSD, GPU, and Motherboard again --> no changes.

Maybe it really comes down to a faulty CPU or a problem with the case? Would it be safe to boot the components outside the case on a non-conductive surface?

[Chief Blur Buster]

Do you have a spare power supply?

Quickly try a different PSU first -- even outside the computer (or from another computer tower) with cables snaking into your computer.

Some defective power supplies generate cyclic interference-surges (like small EMP pulses, literally bombing your latencies).

This is massively more likely than a CPU problem (but you can try a different CPU).

Yes, you can boot outside of your computer case -- or try a different PSU first -- or both.

I've (very rarely) seen this come from PSU's before. Stick to high quality low-interference power supplies, even if you pay more dollar-per-watt, to get the higher end datacenter-quality power. Some PSU reviewers publish interference graphs when reviewing power supplies!