Blur Busters Forums

Who you gonna call? The Blur Busters! For Everything Better Than 60Hz™ Skip to content

Double-Image Effect (Frame Skipping) - Firefox vs Chrome

NEW for 2017: Discussion about the www.TestUFO.com Blur Busters Motion Tests. Widely used by enthusiasts, display tweakers, reviewers, monitor manufacturers and VR headset makers!

Double-Image Effect (Frame Skipping) - Firefox vs Chrome

Postby baffle » 03 Jun 2017, 02:07

I ran the Blur Busters ULMB test and was super bummed to see that I had bad cross-talk on my Acer XB270HU. I tried the various tests in Chrome at 85, 100, and 120hz and all of them were blurry, including the moving photo test. 120hz actually performed best, contrary to many opinions about lower refresh rates handling crosstalk and ULMB better, but 120hz had no stuttering, it was a nice smooth scroll from right to left, whereas the lower refresh rates were choppy and had even worse blur and crosstalk.

So I decided to try Firefox. Guess what? Almost NO crosstalk! (I'm very happy about that btw!!)
What gives? I'm now questioning if these tests have any validity. Why are my results so different, and which do I trust?

And if Firefox can -improve- my crosstalk, then can other software solutions also improve ULMB?
The Blur Buster strobe utility works only on Lightboost/Benq monitors, but what can we do for an Acer ULMB monitor?
Last edited by baffle on 03 Jun 2017, 18:17, edited 4 times in total.
baffle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 03 Jun 2017, 01:24

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby lexlazootin » 03 Jun 2017, 06:29

Aslong as the colours are the same and the test is in the same position, there shouldn't be any difference in crosstalk at all.
lexlazootin
 
Posts: 947
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby baffle » 03 Jun 2017, 14:45

lexlazootin wrote:Aslong as the colours are the same and the test is in the same position, there shouldn't be any difference in crosstalk at all.


And yet, there was. A night and day difference. I was ready to send my monitor back after seeing the Chrome results, but the Firefox results have me feeling like I hit the lottery!
baffle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 03 Jun 2017, 01:24

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby RealNC » 03 Jun 2017, 17:58

If the monitor has crosstalk, it has crosstalk.

Chrome is not able to generate crosstalk. The monitor is. I have no idea what is happening with Firefox, but crosstalk is a monitor artifact, not a software one. If you see it, it's there. It's not been made up.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
User avatar
RealNC
 
Posts: 1254
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby baffle » 03 Jun 2017, 18:16

Right, but when running the tests in Firefox, I see very little to no crosstalk. So my monitor is rendering those images with ULMB on and showing those great results. How is that not valid?

If I never used Chrome in my life, I'd only be reporting that my monitor has great ULMB performance and almost no crosstalk (based on my FF results).

Are there any other tests out there? Perhaps an application that doesn't use a browser?
baffle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 03 Jun 2017, 01:24

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby RealNC » 03 Jun 2017, 19:34

The simplest test is having a black background and moving your mouse cursor over it. Viewing this in fullscreen:

http://jasonfarrell.com/misc/deadpixeltest.php?p=1

and moving your mouse around should give you an indication of crosstalk, which will differ between the top and the bottom of the screen.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
User avatar
RealNC
 
Posts: 1254
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby Haste » 04 Jun 2017, 04:18

Just an idea:

What if baffle is experiencing stutters in chrome that he is not experiencing in firefox?

Repeated frames under backlight strobbing operation gives the "double image" artifact. Which looks very similar to strobe crosstalk.
Monitor: Asus ROG Swift PG279Q
Haste
 
Posts: 295
Joined: 22 Dec 2013, 09:03

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby baffle » 05 Jun 2017, 04:02

RealNC wrote:The simplest test is having a black background and moving your mouse cursor over it. Viewing this in fullscreen:

http://jasonfarrell.com/misc/deadpixeltest.php?p=1

and moving your mouse around should give you an indication of crosstalk, which will differ between the top and the bottom of the screen.



Very interesting. Again, it renders differently in each browser. How is that possible? I also tried to use a solid black background on my Desktop, and got similar results to Firefox. I saw the pointer lagging behind the middle and bottom of my monitor; and at the top, I could also see a hint of a pointer on both sides. I guess my monitor sucks. :(
Last edited by baffle on 08 Jun 2017, 20:34, edited 1 time in total.
baffle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 03 Jun 2017, 01:24

Re: Much Less CrossTalk in Firefox vs Chrome XB270HU

Postby RealNC » 05 Jun 2017, 06:14

baffle wrote:I saw the pointer lagging behind the middle and bottom, and at the top, I could also see a hint of a pointer on both sides. I guess my monitor sucks. :(

No, that's very normal. Blur reduction is not perfect on any monitor. Except on OLED panels. LCD panels always have crosstalk. These tests are extreme cases intended to show LCD crosstalk. The best monitors have less crosstalk, but there is always some of it. No way around it.

Outside of such "synthetic" tests, crosstalk on a good monitor is not very noticeable (when playing games, for example), unless you're actively looking and focusing on it rather than on the game.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
User avatar
RealNC
 
Posts: 1254
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32

Double-Image Effect (Frame Skipping) - Firefox vs Chrome

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 19 Jun 2017, 14:59

Excuse me, let me fix the wild goose & red herring stew...

Let's explain what's going on. Here's my diagnosis (75% confidence factor)

baffle wrote:I ran the Blur Busters ULMB test and was super bummed to see that I had bad cross-talk on my Acer XB270HU. I tried the various tests in Chrome at 85, 100, and 120hz and all of them were blurry, including the moving photo test. 120hz actually performed best, contrary to many opinions about lower refresh rates handling crosstalk and ULMB better, but 120hz had no stuttering, it was a nice smooth scroll from right to left, whereas the lower refresh rates were choppy and had even worse blur and crosstalk.

There are times where browser bugs halves framerates, which creates a perfect double-image effect which looks like very bad strobe crosstalk.

But this isn't strobe crosstalk. It's simply but half-framerate during strobing. Like 30fps@60hz CRT, or 60fps@120Hz LightBoost.

Now in your ULMB 120Hz mode,
Does TestUFO say "60Hz"? Check chrome://gpu (Hardware acceleration needs to be enabled)
Does TestUFO say "120Hz"? Check testufo.com/frameskipping (Browser engine frame skipping)

If you go to http://www.testufo.com/frameskipping -- and see gaps in the squres -- then this is the problem -- the web browser is currently frameskipping at 50%:50%. TestUFO says "120Hz" but it's only showing half the frames whenever the browser incorrectly decides to frameskip. A common cause of browser engine frameskipping is multi-monitor (A 120Hz monitor alongside a 60Hz monitor).

Such every-other-frame skipping will cause 120fps motion to look 60Hz-blurry (in non-strobe mode) or double-image (in ULMB/strobed mode).

To fix this, temporarily disable multimonitor, and run TestUFO only on 1 primary monitor. The problem may disappear.

Now everything's clear.

Happy happy joy joy, eh? :D

(Please follow up if it worked)
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3673
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44


Return to Test UFO Motion Tests

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests