[$2000 bounty] Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Work/Fail

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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Feb 2018, 09:57

Yes, it looks like a very accurate 60.0024Hz timer-like event now.

If you run this:
https://www.testufo.com/refreshrate#digits=5
And wait for a while for all digits to stop jittering all over the place, it will tend to settle at a specific near-exact value (to four digits at least), at all refresh rates - if it is saying 60.0024, it is a strong evidence of a high-accuracy timer instead of VSYNC. If timers are accurate, and very close to a multiple of refresh rate, it will de-stutter for 60Hz and for 120Hz -- but it still isn't a VSYNC event instead of a timer.

Other Application Test:
Do you have non-OpenGL applications that successfully run smooth >60fps in windowed mode?

Window Manager Test:
Does window dragging look like it manages to go at full frame rates?
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by RealNC » 05 Feb 2018, 10:23

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Yes, it looks like a very accurate 60.0024Hz timer-like event now.

If you run this:
https://www.testufo.com/refreshrate#digits=5
And wait for a while for all digits to stop jittering all over the place, it will tend to settle at a specific near-exact value (to four digits at least), at all refresh rates - if it is saying 60.0024, it is a strong evidence of a high-accuracy timer instead of VSYNC. If timers are accurate, and very close to a multiple of refresh rate, it will de-stutter for 60Hz and for 120Hz -- but it still isn't a VSYNC event instead of a timer.
I let it run for about 3 minutes, and it settled to exactly 60.00239.
Other Application Test:
Do you have non-OpenGL applications that successfully run smooth >60fps in windowed mode?
Well, things like scrolling in the file manager is 120FPS.
Window Manager Test:
Does window dragging look like it manages to go at full frame rates?
Yes, absolutely. KWin needs to be told to unlock the frame rate though, because it's 60FPS by default, regardless of refresh rate. The KWin maintainer once stated that "60FPS ought be enough for anybody." He's in the "the human eye can't see past blah blah" camp, and considers high refresh monitors a complete waste of time. But I digress (don't get me started :-P)
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Feb 2018, 11:14

RealNC wrote:Yes, absolutely. KWin needs to be told to unlock the frame rate though, because it's 60FPS by default, regardless of refresh rate. The KWin maintainer once stated that "60FPS ought be enough for anybody." He's in the "the human eye can't see past blah blah" camp, and considers high refresh monitors a complete waste of time. But I digress (don't get me started :-P)
If a discussion flares up, call me.

(Who you gonna call? The Blur Busters Squad!)
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by RealNC » 05 Feb 2018, 12:02

I was able to find an old comment from a bug from 2014 (which of course not only has not been fixed, but left at "unconfirmed" since then, meaning completely ignored), where a kwin dev said:

"If my screen can run @400Hz, why should I repaint the desktop at that speed? Waste battery? Heat the room?"

If you try to talk to these people, you just get ignored or flamed. I gave up trying to talk to these people. If Gnome wasn't an unusable mess UI-wise, I would have switched from KDE to Gnome ages ago.

Anyway, the issue here doesn't seem to be the compositor anyway. It's the browsers. You opened a bug back in 2015 here:

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/is ... ?id=403188

I pinged a couple times, but unfortunately, they ignore it. There's not much we can do if they just don't care about this.
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Feb 2018, 12:13

Blur Busters Squad to the rescue.

KDE compositor isn't VSYNC capable.

I'm opening a new bug report on the KDE Bug Tracking System. Should be open within the hour.

Hell, maybe I'll put up a $1000 BountySource by year 2019 to nuke this bug -- "Make KDE Compositor synchronized to VSYNC". (Multiple Blur Busters fans can team up on building a BountySource.com prize pot -- I'll throw in funds too -- want to donate to the open source prize pot? Contact squad[at]blurbusters.com ...)

And a free spare 144 Hz monitor for one of the KDE developers, gift courtesy of Blur Busters.

Chrome may be an issue too, but KDE's compositor isn't synchronized to VSYNC. So we may have two concurrent problems to fix.
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by RealNC » 05 Feb 2018, 12:18

Vsync works fine for me in kwin. It's configurable in system settings:

Image
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Feb 2018, 12:22

RealNC wrote:Vsync works fine for me in kwin. It's configurable in system settings:

Image
Tearing prevention doesn't mean synchronization. You can play 60fps at 144Hz without tearing.

As far as I know, KDE compositor isn't perfectly synchronized to VSYNC if I read this correctly:
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=138262

One last test, please try this:
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 62#p379117
For me I created /etc/profile.d/kwin.sh

and then added just one line
export KWIN_TRIPLE_BUFFER=0
Perhaps I should rephrase the earlier bug title to "Google Chrome unable to detect display refresh rate under KDE" and also mention that this is standardized under the HTML 5.2 specification (section 7.1.4.2 -- rAF() callbacks matches refresh rates on unconstrained systems).

This could open a BountySource prize (if one is created) to both Chrome & KDE developers, whomever successfully fixes the piece of puzzle -- since the problem may be in either or both.
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by RealNC » 05 Feb 2018, 12:29

I'm already aware of this tweak. It helps alleviate some stutter. But other than that, not much changes.

It's not a KDE-specific issue, btw. Browsers also don't work with high refresh rates in Gnome, which uses a different window manager.
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Feb 2018, 12:32

RealNC wrote:I'm already aware of this tweak. It helps alleviate some stutter. But other than that, not much changes.

It's not a KDE-specific issue, btw. Browsers also don't work with high refresh rates in Gnome, which uses a different window manager.
Yeah, I know.

It's a long standing problem I really want to see fixed.

I am serious about $1000 open source bounty offer going live by January 2019 -- for successful code commits that makes it to the default public release. If a Google Chrome install doesn't successfully VSYNC on a KDE installation by year 2019 on both NVIDIA and AMD cards.

Note: I can accelerate this bounty earlier (or even open one now) with some donors -- readers, inquire at squad@blurbusters.com -- and we can open a prize pot on www.bountysource.com ....

Whatever software is at fault, this needs to be fixed for once and all after so many years.

Let me at least begin by opening a KDE bug report, and seeing if I can get some initial (grudging) movement or smoke signal first.
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Re: Calling 120Hz+ Linux Users: TestUFO Works/Fail?

Post by RealNC » 05 Feb 2018, 12:34

Before opening the bug, this might be relevant prior knowledge:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322060#c117
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