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Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

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Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby zermak » 01 Oct 2017, 11:12

I am about to change my Samsung T220 monitor because of its age and obvious technical limits.
My brother just got a BenQ Zowie XL2720 and it's day night from 60Hz to 144Hz with strobed light during fast pace gaming (Quake Champions, Overwatch and so on) and even on watching movies and I want something similar.
I would like to move to a better quality panel and sacrifice a little of responsiveness (if needed) because I don't play such games anymore (mainly MOBA like League of Legends, sometimes few FPS to test them) and so I was looking at the curved (not a problem, I will be the only one staring the monitor) SVA panels by Samsung on their CxxFG series.
Reading one (?) review it seems the 24 inches model is good overall, is it the same with the 27 inches model?
Plus I am not looking up for a bright display. I set it mine at about 100cd/m2 (I have a Spyder 3 and I use DisplayCAL to calibrate them and HCFR to make the first changes on RGB and other settings before run the profiler).
I can find the Samsung C27FG73 at around 340 euros right now.
Are there any other options on the market? And is the strobed backlighting as good as the one on BenQ Zowie models that can be adjusted as you wish (to correct crosstalk and so on)?

Thank you for your tips in advice.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 01 Oct 2017, 20:38

(Checking Official List of Best Gaming Monitors)

Are you limiting to 1080p, or are you open to 1440p?

There are way more options at 1440p -- there are 144Hz-165Hz options for IPS 1440p.

If you prefer 1080p non-TN, your only choice are VA panels.

Of those options, Samsung's is one of the best.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby zermak » 02 Oct 2017, 07:56

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I want a FHD, not looking for more mainly because of actual GPU power and no need for higher resolution considering what I watch on my monitor (plus upscaling is GPU intensive: I use MadVR for better playback and quality).
And if I am not wrong 1440p 144Hz(+) with strobed light monitors are more expansive than what I am willing to spend.
IPS seems a right choice for both gaming and watching movies but as you have mentioned there are no FHD 27 inches IPS panels to look for and SVA panels from Samsung is the only alternative to TN panels.
I have read all I could on this Samsung curved monitors and it seems, sad to say, the same Samsung's lottery (not of panels this time) to get a decent monitor build with few problems but I have no actual alternatives... I'll give it a try and I'll order one myself.
I hope to get lucky and have a good one.

Thank you again and when I get it I'll post some comments and data about it.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby zermak » 09 Oct 2017, 14:48

I've got the monitor and I am using it right now.
I have only setup few things for now (RGB channels and response actually); waiting to get my new colormeter this week (i1 Display Pro; I am using a Spyder 3 now).
I am happy about its performance so far: no weird backlight bleed and it seems working better at 144Hz rather than 120Hz (with "fast" or "fastest" option on response mode); it looks like it has some synch problems at the lower frequency; I'll investigate it later, maybe.
I am a bit disapponted for the lock on brightness when using the stobed backlight as I would like to turn it down a bit. Anyway with my actual settings I have about 140cd/m2 and that's okay when playing in normal room lighting.
The colors in normal mode are very vivid and its kinda pleasant for normal views but I am a purist and I will calibrate it in sRGB mode with all the ups and downs.
The curvature is not disturbing but things on corners are a little weird if you're used to see them in the classic way even if the "distortion" (from the point of view) is minimum.
Talking about speed: it is slower (pixel responses) than my brother's TN 144Hz but I guess you can only see it on your crosstalk test or side by side playing a game in clone mode because when playing fast pace gaming on it I can't notice any artifacts (even if there are of course).

By the way, any advice on shutter speed for 144Hz to photograph the monitor during the crosstalk test and analyze the image later?

If someone is interested I'll post news and analsys later this week.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 09 Oct 2017, 16:05

Glad yhou like the monitor! Yes, the Samsung 27" is one of the better color quality non-TN FHD monitors.

zermak wrote:By the way, any advice on shutter speed for 144Hz to photograph the monitor during the crosstalk test and analyze the image later?

For strobe crosstalk photography:
-- Static camera: Shutter exposure of one refresh cycle (or slightly less).
-- Pursuit camera: Longer exposures are okay.

Unlike photography of display motion blur (can't easily be done by static camera, so we invented a cheap pursuit camera method), photography of strobe crosstalk is very easy to do very accurately, even with a stationary camera. Easiest is static camera (holding camera still and snapping a pic).

You ideally want a shutter speed that captures a single strobe-backlight flash. So for 144Hz, round it off to finding your 1/150sec shutter setting. The 1/200sec shutter setting will usually capture most strobe flashes (as the flash is ~1/500sec for most strobe backlights)
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby zermak » 09 Oct 2017, 19:39

Thank you for the tip and yes, I've read every article on the site and I knew about the rail possibility (actually I tried it on bare hands "railing" with my elbows on the desk, got an almost usable pic ahah).
I want to shot with static camera to see if I can reduce the crosstalk using CRU.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 09 Oct 2017, 21:30

Be noted that manual strobe crosstalk reduction via CRU only works when the LCD panel is still refreshing synchronously with the cable (real-time scanout mode / instant mode).

If your monitor does scan-velocity conversion (scanning out to the panel at a different speed than the video cable), strobe crosstalk won't change (or predictably) with CRU adjustments. NVIDIA ULMB/LightBoost is unaffected, while BenQ/Zowie/Zisworks improves.

P.S. For things like motion blur photography -- if you are playing with pursuit cameras for blogs or hobby, you might be interested to know that the $0 Tupperware Pursuit Camera actually produces pretty accurate results. (Other sliding camera setups). Though, pursuiting the camera is usually website reviewer / tester / blogger / hobbyist stuff, and not necessary for strobe crosstalk calibration.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby zermak » 10 Oct 2017, 07:23

Is there any way to check if my monitor doesn't do scan-velocity conversion?

About the cheap solution on pursuit cameras, I was looking and thinking about something to realize and thank you for the link, it gaves me few ideas to work on.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby zermak » 12 Oct 2017, 20:24

I've got my i1 Display Pro today and I may apologize to you. My old meter is pratically worn out and it gave me very bad readings.
So the brightness in fastest mode with the strobed lighting working is over 200cd/m2, actually 210cd/m2 after calibrating it (I had to turn down green by 15 points) in sRGB mode and the contrast is over 2600:1 (with full black and full white windows).
I have a calibration report from DisplayCAL if someone is interested and can test more if you care.

I may even find the problem with the stuttering in 120Hz: you have to change the refresh rate in the monitor's menu too but I still haven't tried it yet cause I am interested in 144Hz performance so far.

If I can build something this weekend to do a pursuit camera test, I'll let you know.
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Re: Looking for a 27" non-TN FHD 144Hz strobed monitor

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 13 Oct 2017, 10:47

zermak wrote:Is there any way to check if my monitor doesn't do scan-velocity conversion?

It's very hard but eSports players can feel when the mouse isn't locked to the monitor refresh cycles during VSYNC OFF. CRTs and realtime-scanout monitors "feel right" and scan-converted monitors "don't feel right".

It's not a significant concern nowadays for most monitors, so don't worry about it.

That said, real time scanout can be determined by photographing the monitor next to a CRT while viewing certain test patterns like http://www.testufo.com/flicker ... There will be about 2ms lagbehind for the 1ms GtG LCDs. This test is a little difficult to setup, but you can see whether the LCD panel scanout is in sync with the CRT tube scanout (within a ~2ms offset or so). Basically SMTT 2.0 lag test technique. If all photos are pratically in sync (within ~2ms) regardless of scanout position, you're looking at a realtime scanout LCD.

We also have a TestUFO version of a similar two-display "lag-testing-by-photo" technique that currently undergoing development. We've found an algorithm to have better-than-SMTT lag test reliability with simple VSYNC ON animation, rather than 1000fps animation. However, a lot of projects at BlurBusters has delayed that at the moment...
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