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120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

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120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby MrFriendism » 11 Oct 2018, 06:31

Hello, I am thinking of Buying BenQ XL2546 240Hz Monitor. I play Rainbow Six Siege with 120FPS at my current spec setup.

Specs: GTX 970 (4GB) + Intel i7 4790K (No OC).

Question: I would like to know, If I play 120FPS Rainbow Six Siege on 144Hz or 120FPS Rainbow Six Siege on 240Hz Refresh Rate.

What sort of graphical issues I'm going to notice (Screen Tearing or something else)?

P.S.: Right now, I'm waiting for the new CPU and GPU from Intel and nvidia to come in the market (Waiting for 9900K // 9700K and 2080Ti from ASUS). That is the reason, I am buying 240Hz Monitor right now to make it a future-proof purchase.

Thanks.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby RealNC » 11 Oct 2018, 11:26

If you get a VRR monitor (G-Sync, in your case) then it doesn't matter. The monitor will adapt to the game's FPS. You only need to set 240Hz as your refresh rate. Or just set "preferred refresh rate" to "highest" in the nvidia panel (which is better because then you can keep your desktop refresh rate at 120Hz and use 240Hz only for games.)

We have a 14-page article about how to best use G-Sync here:

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101

It's worth reading, especially the pages about frame capping your games to stay below the maximum refresh rate.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby MrFriendism » 11 Oct 2018, 12:07

RealNC wrote:If you get a VRR monitor (G-Sync, in your case) then it doesn't matter. The monitor will adapt to the game's FPS. You only need to set 240Hz as your refresh rate. Or just set "preferred refresh rate" to "highest" in the nvidia panel (which is better because then you can keep your desktop refresh rate at 120Hz and use 240Hz only for games.)

We have a 14-page article about how to best use G-Sync here:

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101

It's worth reading, especially the pages about frame capping your games to stay below the maximum refresh rate.


Hey, Thanks for the answer. Actually, I'm getting the monitor which doesn't have G-Sync or Free-Sync. I'm going with BenQ xl2546.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby RealNC » 11 Oct 2018, 12:11

In that case, if your FPS does not match your refresh rate, you will have judder/microstutter (the same way as if you play at 100FPS on 120Hz right now.) It's a bit less noticeable on 240Hz, but still there.

The 240Hz monitors have input lag when you don't operate them at 240Hz. There's a way to fix it, by using a custom mode that uses 240Hz-like timing for 120Hz or 144Hz, which eliminates the input lag.

Overall though, G-Sync would be the best solution to the problem. It allows you to play at any FPS without worrying about microstutter.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby MrFriendism » 11 Oct 2018, 12:14

RealNC wrote:In that case, if your FPS does not match your refresh rate, you will have judder/microstutter.


If you don't mind. How does it appear or looks? Could you share the video of something demo. the thing you have said above?

Secondly, How am I suppose to improve it with this monitor? What sort of settings I should do with this monitor to make it least to no problem because of FPS?

Third, Once, I upgrade my PC. I might reach more than 240 FPS. At that moment, My FPS > Hz. How am I suppose to deal with it without V-Sync?
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby RealNC » 11 Oct 2018, 12:28

MrFriendism wrote:If you don't mind. How does it appear or looks? Could you share the video of something demo. the thing you have said above?

Well, the same way as when you play 100FPS or 90FPS on your 120Hz display.

There's a G-Sync emulation animation here, to show what exactly G-Sync is fixing:

https://www.testufo.com/gsync

(Make sure you use a supported browser to watch this. It might not work on Edge, but should on Chrome and Firefox.)

However, note that G-Sync's improvements also depend on which games you play. If you only play fast, flick-based shooters where you constantly swipe the mouse frantically, then the FPS/Hz mismatch stutter doesn't really stick out. If you play slower paced games with smooth camera pans (RPGs like Witcher 3 for example, slow paced first-person games like Skyrim, constant smooth motion games like racing games, etc, etc.) then G-Sync's improvements are way more noticeable.

Secondly, How am I suppose to improve it with this monitor? What sort of settings I should do with this monitor to make it least to no problem because of FPS?

The same way you do on your current monitor. Make sure your FPS is high enough. If not, if might be preferable to switch to a lower Hz that matches the game's FPS.

On the other hand, you might simply not care about this at all. This kind of microstutter is fine for many people. For me it feels like it's the bane of my existence, but not everyone has "pixel OCD" like me :-P So if currently, when you play games at sub-120FPS on 120Hz you don't mind the resulting microstutter, then you'll be fine.

Third, Once, I upgrade my PC. I might reach more than 240 FPS. At that moment, My FPS > Hz. How am I suppose to deal with it without V-Sync?

I find that hard to believe. Very few games will reach 240FPS, especially modern games. However, you might opt for a higher resolution instead of higher refresh rate? I went from 1080p to 1440p for example. Might be worth thinking about whether you prefer faster frame rates or higher image quality.

But regardless, for the few games where you can get more than 240FPS, you can simply opt for disabling vsync in that case, or use a frame capper for low-latency vsync.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby MrFriendism » 11 Oct 2018, 12:33

RealNC wrote:
MrFriendism wrote:If you don't mind. How does it appear or looks? Could you share the video of something demo. the thing you have said above?

Well, the same way as when you play 100FPS or 90FPS on your 120Hz display.

There's a G-Sync emulation animation here, to show what exactly G-Sync is fixing:

https://www.testufo.com/gsync

(Make sure you use a supported browser to watch this. It might not work on Edge, but should on Chrome and Firefox.)

Secondly, How am I suppose to improve it with this monitor? What sort of settings I should do with this monitor to make it least to no problem because of FPS?

The same way you do on your current monitor. Make sure your FPS is high enough. If not, if might be preferable to switch to a lower Hz that matches the game's FPS.

On the other hand, you might simply not care about this at all. This kind of microstutter is fine for many people. For me it feels like it's the bane of my existence, but not everyone has "pixel OCD" like me :-P So if currently, when you play games at sub-120FPS on 120Hz you don't mind the resulting microstutter, then you'll be fine.

Third, Once, I upgrade my PC. I might reach more than 240 FPS. At that moment, My FPS > Hz. How am I suppose to deal with it without V-Sync?

I find that hard to believe. Very few games will reach 240FPS, especially modern games. However, you might opt for a higher resolution instead of higher refresh rate? I went from 1080p to 1440p for example. Might be worth thinking about whether you prefer faster frame rates or higher image quality.

But regardless, for the few games where you can get more than 240FPS, you can simply opt for disabling vsync in that case, or use a frame capper for low-latency vsync.


Thanks for the detailed reply.

1. Rainow Six Siege is kind of modern-day CSGO. What you say is it's the modern-day FPS.Sticking with 1080p with highest resolution is the best thing you get. Given that most of the R6 and CSGO Pros are still on 1080p and they only thing they upgrade is response-time (which they already have 1ms) or the refresh-rate. Like Shroud shifted from 144hz to 240hz.

2. If I play 120FPS on 120Hz. It will act like true 120Hz Monitor? And then, Would I notice any sort of stuttering which you have mentioned?

3. If I play 120FPS on 240Hz. Do I get to notice the Screen-Tearing in that case?

P.S.: Rainbow Six Siege has a Pixel Aim thing. So, people here kill you with a pixel. Yes, It's that competitive. So, if stuttering/blurring/tearing is going to happen, it won't help me.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby RealNC » 11 Oct 2018, 12:44

MrFriendism wrote:1. Rainow Six Siege is kind of modern-day CSGO. What you say is it's the modern-day FPS.Sticking with 1080p with highest resolution is the best thing you get. Given that most of the R6 and CSGO Pros are still on 1080p and they only thing they upgrade is response-time (which they already have 1ms) or the refresh-rate. Like Shroud shifted from 144hz to 240hz.

For these games, 240Hz is definitely useful. 240FPS and more is not at problem at 1080p. G-Sync is not even that useful here.

(I updated my previous post with game types where G-Sync is way more useful.)

2. If I play 120FPS on 120Hz. It will act like true 120Hz Monitor? And then, Would I notice any sort of stuttering which you have mentioned?

You will get more input lag than on a true 120Hz monitor. But you can fix it. There's a guide somewhere around here. It involves using the CRU tool to tweak the timings of each refresh rate.

3. If I play 120FPS on 240Hz. Do I get to notice the Screen-Tearing in that case?

You will always get tearing if you don't use vsync. FPS does not matter. However, the lower your FPS gets, the worse the tearing gets. You need to use vsync if you don't want tearing.

P.S.: Rainbow Six Siege has a Pixel Aim thing. So, people here kill you with a pixel. Yes, It's that competitive. So, if stuttering/blurring/tearing is going to happen, it won't help me.

Well, g-sync will help then, or you can use 120Hz mode (or 144Hz mode), of whatever mode will match your FPS then. And you can do the CRU tweak to lower the input lag of 120Hz or 144Hz.

Btw, I assume you're using vsync right now?
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby MrFriendism » 11 Oct 2018, 13:09

No, I am not using V-Sync because it's the worst thing you would do to play FPS.

Right now, I have 120 FPS on a 60Hz LG Monitor. And trust me, I don't notice any Screen Tearing (FPS Drop happens which is quite normal to happen and monitor can't do anything for it).

But Screen Tearing is non-noticeable or I can't notice even if it is happening. So answer is no. No screen tearing.
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Re: 120 FPS on 144Hz and 120FPS on 240Hz?

Postby RealNC » 11 Oct 2018, 13:22

Oh, OK. I thought you were on a 120Hz display. If you're on 60Hz, then yeah, vsync is a huge problem in competitive FPS.

I've been playing CSGO on a 60Hz at 240FPS in the past. I still noticed the tearing. But it didn't bother me. It only bothered me in games where FPS was lower.

Anyway, we have different priorities. You prefer maximum refresh rate, I prefer a good balance between refresh rate and image quality, which is why I tend to steer people towards 1440p displays, especially when they currently use a 60Hz 1080p display. If those people get a 144Hz+ 1440p display, that's a huge upgrade, because they get a much better refresh rate and also much better resolution. So everything feels better, not just the faster refresh. When you also consider that the majority of games can not reach 240FPS, it makes more sense to me, especially long term, since games will get lower and lower FPS as time goes on (they get heavier and heavier, as graphics improve further and further.) 1440p 144Hz-165Hz really seems like a sweet spot to me.
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