How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

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kokkatc
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How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by kokkatc » 23 Mar 2017, 14:47

My question is simple.

How can you confirm display scaling is being used over gpu scaling? Also, how do you FORCE display scaling?

I ask because my primary objective is to achieve the lowest amount of input lag possible. You can say I'm a bit of an input lag fanatic and I've already tweaked my system in virtually every way to achieve this goal, BUT, GPU & Display scaling raised some questions.

I already know display scaling offers less input lag than gpu scaling. After much research on display & gpu scaling I've come across some troubling threasd. For starters, some say Nvidia automatically uses GPU scaling for anything above 60hz. I've also found some INFO that suggest even if display scaling is checked in say the nvidia control panel, GPU scaling is still being used. Under what conditions does this happen? I don't know for sure...

I've also run tests where I lower my resolution along with refresh rate and check to see if my monitor's OSD reports the same. I have the Asus VG248QE and it typically almost always reports the same resolution and refresh rate so that should suggest display scaling is being used, correct?

I've also read that some suggest 144hz defaults to gpu scaling? 144hz should offer the lowest amount of input lag but if the GPU is scaling the image rather than display, this would incorporate more input lag.

I also ran into a problem where I used toastyx CRU, and ever since rebooting my system, the 'Use Display Scaling' option has FREAKING DISAPPEARED!! Now the only option available is GPU scaling. This confuses me as well! If my OSD reports the same resolution and refresh rate as my current settings, doesn't that imply that display scaling is being used? Are there circumstances where GPU scaling is being used even if my OSD reports the same settings? I did notice that when I set my refresh rate to 119hz, my OSD reports 120hz. Does this imply GPU scaling is being enforced?

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it but I'm pretty confused at this point.

My goal - FORCE DISPLAY SCALING WITH CONFIRMATION

Maintaining the highest refresh rate is not my goal.. I can comfortably go with virtually any refresh rate at or above 110 as long as display scaling is being used. I apologize if this thread is jumping all over the place, I'm just lookign for answers along with a means to force display scaling and know for sure display scaling is being enforced.

Thanks in advance!

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RealNC
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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by RealNC » 23 Mar 2017, 14:57

Display scaling can only be used for modes advertised as supported by the monitor's EDID. If the EDID doesn't for example explicitly list 1280x720@120Hz, GPU scaling will be used.

To see what the monitor supports by default in its EDID, you can use CRU. Also check the extension block in CRU, as modes are also listed there.

If a mode is not listed, you can add it yourself in CRU. Display scaling should then work for that mode. A mode is a resolution+refresh rate combination. 1280x720@60 and 1280x720@120 for example are two different modes. That's why for some refresh rates GPU scaling is used instead of display scaling, even though the resolution is same and only the refresh rate is different.

Finally, if you use a G-Sync monitor, display scaling cannot be used at all.
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kokkatc
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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by kokkatc » 23 Mar 2017, 15:03

RealNC wrote:Display scaling can only be used for modes advertised as supported by the monitor's EDID. If the EDID doesn't for example explicitly list 1280x720@120Hz, GPU scaling will be used.

To see what the monitor supports by default in its EDID, you can use CRU. Also check the extension block in CRU, as modes are also listed there.

If a mode is not listed, you can add it yourself in CRU. Display scaling should then work for that mode. A mode is a resolution+refresh rate combination. 1280x720@60 and 1280x720@120 for example are two different modes. That's why for some refresh rates GPU scaling is used instead of display scaling, even though the resolution is same and only the refresh rate is different.

Finally, if you use a G-Sync monitor, display scaling cannot be used at all.
Thanks for the quick reply!

You mentioned only the advertised modes support display scaling. You then said if a mode doesn't exist, you can add it with CRU and display scaling should work. Does CRU automatically use display scaling? How do you know for sure when display scaling is being utilized?

My goal is to run 1080p @ 110, 120 or 144hz with display scaling.

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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by RealNC » 23 Mar 2017, 15:18

CRU is just an EDID editing tool. It doesn't do anything else. It does not force scaling of any kind. It just allows you to alter the list of supported modes advertised by your monitor. Those modes are then read by the graphics driver and it becomes possible to scale them on the display.

If the resolution+refresh combination you want is listed in the EDID, display scaling will work.

1080p is never scaled, neither by the display nor by the GPU. It's the native resolution of the monitor and no scaling of any kind is performed. Scaling is only used for non-native resolutions (meaning anything else other than 1920x1080.)
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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by Falkentyne » 23 Mar 2017, 15:49

RealNC wrote:Display scaling can only be used for modes advertised as supported by the monitor's EDID. If the EDID doesn't for example explicitly list 1280x720@120Hz, GPU scaling will be used.

To see what the monitor supports by default in its EDID, you can use CRU. Also check the extension block in CRU, as modes are also listed there.

If a mode is not listed, you can add it yourself in CRU. Display scaling should then work for that mode. A mode is a resolution+refresh rate combination. 1280x720@60 and 1280x720@120 for example are two different modes. That's why for some refresh rates GPU scaling is used instead of display scaling, even though the resolution is same and only the refresh rate is different.

Finally, if you use a G-Sync monitor, display scaling cannot be used at all.
This is 100% correct.
Modes shown on the monitor's EDID (that you can also add through ToastyX CRU in addition to default modes) will be display scaled on that exact resolution and refresh rate. However keep in mind that many DirectX 10 games will IGNORE display scaled resolutions and will SKIP to the next NON display scaled (e.g. GPU scaled) resolution. Example if you create a 1680x1050@100hz EDID override in ToastyX CRU and then play a DX10 game, and set 1680x1050@100hz in the game (OR you are running 1680x1050@100hz on the windows desktop), and the monitor usually reports 1680x1050@100hz (proof it's display scaled), trying to initialize this setting in the game will cause the game to skip to 120hz---the next available GPU scaled resolution/refresh rate.

This "problem" doesn't happen in DX9.

There was an old Nvidia driver bug where GPU scaling non native resolutions was adding multiple frames of input lag. This bug should have been fixed a VERY long time ago.

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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by RealNC » 23 Mar 2017, 16:28

Yep, no one has measured an input lag impact with GPU scaling, at least with non-ancient driver versions. The main reason nowadays to prefer display scaling is scaling quality. Some monitors have a very good quality scaler, which makes upscaling look less blurry compared to GPU scaling. Although in some instances (not all, but some,) those high quality scalers do have a latency. Display scaling in that case would have input lag.

Most gaming monitors don't have high quality scalers though. At least I don't know of any. TVs usually come with quality scalers, and with tons of input lag.
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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by kokkatc » 24 Mar 2017, 14:04

Thanks, fellas.

Appreciate the help! 8-)

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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by blackstorm82 » 02 Aug 2021, 23:03

RealNC wrote:
23 Mar 2017, 14:57

Finally, if you use a G-Sync monitor, display scaling cannot be used at all.
May I ask what you mean by this?
Does G-Sync monitor include G-Sync compatible monitors?

And I know that there are monitors with models with display selectable scaling, even for g-sync module monitors..
Are you saying that display scaling still doesn't work?

The GSYNC module monitor is forcing GPU scaling to work. Does it mean that display scaling is not working?

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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by RealNC » 03 Aug 2021, 23:44

blackstorm82 wrote:
02 Aug 2021, 23:03
RealNC wrote:
23 Mar 2017, 14:57

Finally, if you use a G-Sync monitor, display scaling cannot be used at all.
May I ask what you mean by this?
This is outdated information. G-Sync displays can now do scaling themselves. Not sure if all of them do, but many definitely do.

It's easy to verify with CRU. Run it and inspect the EDID modes. Anything not listed there will be scaled by the GPU.

Another way to verify is to simply check in the monitor's OSD. If you run a game at a non-native resolution, then check the display's OSD to see what it says. If it shows the native resolution instead of the game resolution, then that means GPU scaling is used.
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Re: How to force 'DISPLAY SCALING'

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Aug 2021, 00:26

This is correct. The first G-SYNC display I have (ASUS PG248QE) doesn't support display scaling with G-SYNC. But latest G-SYNC displays typically do.

On some equipment combinations, NVIDIA Control Panel doesn't co-operate in ways we want, so it requires a third party Custom Resolution Utility such as ToastyX to create the low resolution for the display to successfully scale.
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