I take your points, but people switching back to 240 Hz doesn't mean there isn't a placebo effect happening. I've tried the latest 240 Hz BenQs and the difference is not nearly as large as you make it out to be, and I want that to be clear for people reading this forum. My point is that 95% of people will have a better experience on the Acer than a 240 Hz TN, even most non-"casuals."Notty_PT wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 17:48That's what you get from being a quake player.. every detail mattersnorth-player wrote: ↑24 Sep 2021, 19:56I definitely appreciate striving for the best image clarity, but I think it's a little hyperbolic to say the Acer is making you "way worse" at games. Even pro players don't split hairs that much. The fact is both the Acer and the most matured TN panels have excellent pixel response times. That's not the say there isn't a difference in motion clarity between these monitors, it's just that the difference is simply not great enough to have any significant effect on in-game performance (beyond placebo/bias).Notty_PT wrote: ↑23 Sep 2021, 14:41
Of course! If you are running a game with more than 240fps you will for sure notice it at 240hz, while at 390hz your monitor will display every frame. I mean, that is easily noticeable, but does it make you play better with all that blur fest? It does nothing for me on Quake, I track way worse as the images are not clear. And what about fast flicks? Total nightmare compared to a good and matured 240hz panel
With these models I feel like playing on an very low input lag responsive mouse, with no frame skipping at all
but...
coupled with "10 years ago" awful pixel response time levels.
Maybe the upcoming TN 0,5ms 360hz panels, releasing soon, will be faster. I guess.
In my opinion: If you stare at the UFO test all day -- get the fastest 240 Hz TN. If you don't, the Acer is a better monitor by most metrics.
No placebo dude, I am top 20 in Quake LG accuracy stats. I Track way worse with 360hz. The ghosting messes up your aim, no debate, no placebo.
You have several players complaining about the same thing, some even went back to their 240hz monitors so... I wouldnt call it placebo, you are not talking with a casual
Clarity/response time/tight image in movement
All more important than refresh rate.
My advice to Acer Nitro 390hz owners: NEVER ever try a matured top notch 240hz panel. You Will want to sell your Acer immediatly. If you are happy with it, dont bother.
Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
I have the 2017-era AW2518H 1080p 240 Hz TN monitor. My Acer 1080p 390 Hz IPS monitor will be here in a day or two. How much better do you think these "top notch 240 Hz panels" are compared to the AW2518H? I'm interested to finally see how this monitor feels in person, but I would think it would be much better than my AW2518H.
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
I trust your POV Notty, you're one of the few people I'd blindly trust when it comes to choosing the right monitor for what I believe is most important; RESULTS/SCORES. These new 23.8 Innolux 240hz monitors are on a league of their own. 2 people have now reviewed the AOC 24G2ZU and one of them did the appropriate testing on it and turned out it had on-par input lag with the 360hz PG259QNR. Amazing. Also, I value consistency a lot and since I'm gonna be playing games where I won't consistently get 390fps or more it's not worth it for the few games that will IMO.Notty_PT wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 17:48That's what you get from being a quake player.. every detail mattersnorth-player wrote: ↑24 Sep 2021, 19:56I definitely appreciate striving for the best image clarity, but I think it's a little hyperbolic to say the Acer is making you "way worse" at games. Even pro players don't split hairs that much. The fact is both the Acer and the most matured TN panels have excellent pixel response times. That's not the say there isn't a difference in motion clarity between these monitors, it's just that the difference is simply not great enough to have any significant effect on in-game performance (beyond placebo/bias).Notty_PT wrote: ↑23 Sep 2021, 14:41
Of course! If you are running a game with more than 240fps you will for sure notice it at 240hz, while at 390hz your monitor will display every frame. I mean, that is easily noticeable, but does it make you play better with all that blur fest? It does nothing for me on Quake, I track way worse as the images are not clear. And what about fast flicks? Total nightmare compared to a good and matured 240hz panel
With these models I feel like playing on an very low input lag responsive mouse, with no frame skipping at all
but...
coupled with "10 years ago" awful pixel response time levels.
Maybe the upcoming TN 0,5ms 360hz panels, releasing soon, will be faster. I guess.
In my opinion: If you stare at the UFO test all day -- get the fastest 240 Hz TN. If you don't, the Acer is a better monitor by most metrics.
No placebo dude, I am top 20 in Quake LG accuracy stats. I Track way worse with 360hz. The ghosting messes up your aim, no debate, no placebo.
You have several players complaining about the same thing, some even went back to their 240hz monitors so... I wouldnt call it placebo, you are not talking with a casual
Clarity/response time/tight image in movement
All more important than refresh rate.
My advice to Acer Nitro 390hz owners: NEVER ever try a matured top notch 240hz panel. You Will want to sell your Acer immediatly. If you are happy with it, dont bother.
Now I can't decide whether to get the Viewsonic XG2431 or the upcoming Asus XG249CM (The AOC 24G2ZU isn't available in North America) since it can be overclocked to 270hz, covers 105% of the sRGB space and has ELMB-Sync which, even though it won't be as good as the Strobe Utility the XG2431 possesses thanks to Chief, I'm not sure I even need it. Especially not if it introduces too much input lag as you say. The thing is, I do value it for the same thing one values DyAc: recoil control. What do you think about this? Is it even necessary with these panels or do you find strobing isn't a necessity when it comes to games with high-recoil on these new panels?
One last thing; while you find the pixel response time of the Acer 390hz too slow you've got to remember the biggest selling point of this monitor, aside from the price, is VRB (strobing at 390hz all the way down to like 100fps) not the extra 30hz. Have you played with the overdrive on normal and VRB set to Extreme? I don't know if strobing has anything to do with pixel response time but I understand it basically makes everything a lot clearer... obviously, if you're not even using VRB when using this monitor you'll find the experience no different than the rest of the G-SYNC 360hz monitors, so take that into consideration if you haven't already. Maybe with VRB it's better than the new Innolux 23.8 inch monitors. Let me know your thoughts.
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
He's not talking about the BenQ's, the latest 240hz BenQ's don't use the newest 240hz super-high performance Innolux panels he's talking about and these are also IPS, unlike the BenQ which is a TN.north-player wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 19:37I take your points, but people switching back to 240 Hz doesn't mean there isn't a placebo effect happening. I've tried the latest 240 Hz BenQs and the difference is not nearly as large as you make it out to be, and I want that to be clear for people reading this forum. My point is that 95% of people will have a better experience on the Acer than a 240 Hz TN, even most non-"casuals."Notty_PT wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 17:48That's what you get from being a quake player.. every detail mattersnorth-player wrote: ↑24 Sep 2021, 19:56I definitely appreciate striving for the best image clarity, but I think it's a little hyperbolic to say the Acer is making you "way worse" at games. Even pro players don't split hairs that much. The fact is both the Acer and the most matured TN panels have excellent pixel response times. That's not the say there isn't a difference in motion clarity between these monitors, it's just that the difference is simply not great enough to have any significant effect on in-game performance (beyond placebo/bias).Notty_PT wrote: ↑23 Sep 2021, 14:41
Of course! If you are running a game with more than 240fps you will for sure notice it at 240hz, while at 390hz your monitor will display every frame. I mean, that is easily noticeable, but does it make you play better with all that blur fest? It does nothing for me on Quake, I track way worse as the images are not clear. And what about fast flicks? Total nightmare compared to a good and matured 240hz panel
With these models I feel like playing on an very low input lag responsive mouse, with no frame skipping at all
but...
coupled with "10 years ago" awful pixel response time levels.
Maybe the upcoming TN 0,5ms 360hz panels, releasing soon, will be faster. I guess.
In my opinion: If you stare at the UFO test all day -- get the fastest 240 Hz TN. If you don't, the Acer is a better monitor by most metrics.
No placebo dude, I am top 20 in Quake LG accuracy stats. I Track way worse with 360hz. The ghosting messes up your aim, no debate, no placebo.
You have several players complaining about the same thing, some even went back to their 240hz monitors so... I wouldnt call it placebo, you are not talking with a casual
Clarity/response time/tight image in movement
All more important than refresh rate.
My advice to Acer Nitro 390hz owners: NEVER ever try a matured top notch 240hz panel. You Will want to sell your Acer immediatly. If you are happy with it, dont bother.
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
The Youtuber "totallydubbedHD" said these are much better input lag and response-time wise. He also happens to be the only Youtuber to have reviewed both the 240hz AOC 24G2ZU and the Acer 390hz. I asked him what he thought of both and which one he'd recommend and this is what he responded:lizardpeter wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 23:02I have the 2017-era AW2518H 1080p 240 Hz TN monitor. My Acer 1080p 390 Hz IPS monitor will be here in a day or two. How much better do you think these "top notch 240 Hz panels" are compared to the AW2518H? I'm interested to finally see how this monitor feels in person, but I would think it would be much better than my AW2518H.
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
michaelcycle00 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 23:02These new 23.8 Innolux 240hz monitors are on a league of their own. 2 people have now reviewed the AOC 24G2ZU and one of them did the appropriate testing on it and turned out it had on-par input lag with the 360hz PG259QNR. Amazing. Also, I value consistency a lot and since I'm gonna be playing games where I won't consistently get 390fps or more it's not worth it for the few games that will IMO.
Thanks for the resource. I actually have watched his review before and forgot about it. He really did not take advantage of the 390 Hz at all though. Is he the one who tested the input lag? I don't see any numbers in his review.michaelcycle00 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 23:11The Youtuber "totallydubbedHD" said these are much better input lag and response-time wise. He also happens to be the only Youtuber to have reviewed both the 240hz AOC 24G2ZU and the Acer 390hz. I asked him what he thought of both and which one he'd recommend and this is what he responded:
However, one thing I am not quite understanding is how they are "much better input lag wise" than the Acer 390 Hz monitor. You said that one of them was on par with the PG259QNR, which is impressive for a 240 Hz panel, but two reviewers have also shown that the Acer 390 Hz monitor is almost 1 ms faster than the PG259QNR.
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
No, he's not the one who tested the input lag, that was "TechteamGB", another English Youtuber. And yeah "totallydubbedHD" didn't take full advantage of the monitor, didn't see him get past like 310 fps while on CS:GO, but this monitor has been praised to be better than any other one even at 100fps (but more so at around 200-250fps), he did say he felt it to be a bit more fluid than the AOC 24G2ZU but wouldn't necessarily take the Acer over the AOC even if money wasn't an issue; didn't say why though. Also, he's really not that good at CS:GO despite constantly repeating how he's played for I don't know how many thousands of hours. So I trust Notty's opinion more.lizardpeter wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 01:36michaelcycle00 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 23:02These new 23.8 Innolux 240hz monitors are on a league of their own. 2 people have now reviewed the AOC 24G2ZU and one of them did the appropriate testing on it and turned out it had on-par input lag with the 360hz PG259QNR. Amazing. Also, I value consistency a lot and since I'm gonna be playing games where I won't consistently get 390fps or more it's not worth it for the few games that will IMO.Thanks for the resource. I actually have watched his review before and forgot about it. He really did not take advantage of the 390 Hz at all though. Is he the one who tested the input lag? I don't see any numbers in his review.michaelcycle00 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 23:11The Youtuber "totallydubbedHD" said these are much better input lag and response-time wise. He also happens to be the only Youtuber to have reviewed both the 240hz AOC 24G2ZU and the Acer 390hz. I asked him what he thought of both and which one he'd recommend and this is what he responded:
However, one thing I am not quite understanding is how they are "much better input lag wise" than the Acer 390 Hz monitor. You said that one of them was on par with the PG259QNR, which is impressive for a 240 Hz panel, but two reviewers have also shown that the Acer 390 Hz monitor is almost 1 ms faster than the PG259QNR.
Also as per the "much better input-lag wise" comment I made I was responding to you in regards to your question about these new 240hz panels being better than the/your "2017-era AW2518H 1080p 240 Hz TN monitor" you made at first. I don't know how to quote specific sections that's why I started off my reply with that. I don't know if the input lag on these is better than the Acer 390hz, probably not but by a tiny bit.
Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
Which reviewer did the appropriate testing on the new 23.8 240hz panels?michaelcycle00 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 23:02I trust your POV Notty, you're one of the few people I'd blindly trust when it comes to choosing the right monitor for what I believe is most important; RESULTS/SCORES. These new 23.8 Innolux 240hz monitors are on a league of their own. 2 people have now reviewed the AOC 24G2ZU and one of them did the appropriate testing on it and turned out it had on-par input lag with the 360hz PG259QNR. Amazing. Also, I value consistency a lot and since I'm gonna be playing games where I won't consistently get 390fps or more it's not worth it for the few games that will IMO.Notty_PT wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 17:48That's what you get from being a quake player.. every detail mattersnorth-player wrote: ↑24 Sep 2021, 19:56I definitely appreciate striving for the best image clarity, but I think it's a little hyperbolic to say the Acer is making you "way worse" at games. Even pro players don't split hairs that much. The fact is both the Acer and the most matured TN panels have excellent pixel response times. That's not the say there isn't a difference in motion clarity between these monitors, it's just that the difference is simply not great enough to have any significant effect on in-game performance (beyond placebo/bias).Notty_PT wrote: ↑23 Sep 2021, 14:41
Of course! If you are running a game with more than 240fps you will for sure notice it at 240hz, while at 390hz your monitor will display every frame. I mean, that is easily noticeable, but does it make you play better with all that blur fest? It does nothing for me on Quake, I track way worse as the images are not clear. And what about fast flicks? Total nightmare compared to a good and matured 240hz panel
With these models I feel like playing on an very low input lag responsive mouse, with no frame skipping at all
but...
coupled with "10 years ago" awful pixel response time levels.
Maybe the upcoming TN 0,5ms 360hz panels, releasing soon, will be faster. I guess.
In my opinion: If you stare at the UFO test all day -- get the fastest 240 Hz TN. If you don't, the Acer is a better monitor by most metrics.
No placebo dude, I am top 20 in Quake LG accuracy stats. I Track way worse with 360hz. The ghosting messes up your aim, no debate, no placebo.
You have several players complaining about the same thing, some even went back to their 240hz monitors so... I wouldnt call it placebo, you are not talking with a casual
Clarity/response time/tight image in movement
All more important than refresh rate.
My advice to Acer Nitro 390hz owners: NEVER ever try a matured top notch 240hz panel. You Will want to sell your Acer immediatly. If you are happy with it, dont bother.
Now I can't decide whether to get the Viewsonic XG2431 or the upcoming Asus XG249CM (The AOC 24G2ZU isn't available in North America) since it can be overclocked to 270hz, covers 105% of the sRGB space and has ELMB-Sync which, even though it won't be as good as the Strobe Utility the XG2431 possesses thanks to Chief, I'm not sure I even need it. Especially not if it introduces too much input lag as you say. The thing is, I do value it for the same thing one values DyAc: recoil control. What do you think about this? Is it even necessary with these panels or do you find strobing isn't a necessity when it comes to games with high-recoil on these new panels?
One last thing; while you find the pixel response time of the Acer 390hz too slow you've got to remember the biggest selling point of this monitor, aside from the price, is VRB (strobing at 390hz all the way down to like 100fps) not the extra 30hz. Have you played with the overdrive on normal and VRB set to Extreme? I don't know if strobing has anything to do with pixel response time but I understand it basically makes everything a lot clearer... obviously, if you're not even using VRB when using this monitor you'll find the experience no different than the rest of the G-SYNC 360hz monitors, so take that into consideration if you haven't already. Maybe with VRB it's better than the new Innolux 23.8 inch monitors. Let me know your thoughts.
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
@Notty_PT Would my old Omen X 25f be considered a matured top notch 240Hz panel?
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Re: Acer 390Hz monitor - XV252QF
I seen the issue reported by valgar and read the whole youtube comments. It appears he still returned it so I assume a different DP cable didn't help.lizardpeter wrote: ↑26 Sep 2021, 17:41I would like to know what DisplayPort cable everyone is using. I have seen various reports of flickering that are sometimes resolved by swapping the cable. My monitor will be here in two days, and I just ordered the VESA-certified CLUB 3D 2 meter DP 1.4 HBR 3 cable.