ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

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xenphor
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by xenphor » 08 Dec 2021, 02:17

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 23:16
xenphor wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 13:27
I would be interested in trying out BFI but I'm afraid my eyes won't be able to tolerate it for very long. For example, I'm not able to use interlaced resolutions like 1080i on an LCD. Since a lot of the content I want to use it for is older retro stuff that's locked at 60hz, I'm guessing the flickering would be even worse than at 120hz+. Do I have the right assumptions?
INFO
Thanks for the info.

This may seem like a weird question, but do you know if the monitor accepts Limited Range RGB (meaning blacks would be gray)? I've had issues with eye strain when using Full Range RGB (even after adjusting brightness/contrast/saturation/gamma) and find that using Limited Range RGB is the only way to over come it (I realize this is not desirable by most people). I think it would also be helpful to reduce eye strain when using strobing.

I've tried monitors in the past that don't change when selecting Limited Range in the control panel which is why I ask.

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 08 Dec 2021, 13:48

xenphor wrote:
08 Dec 2021, 02:17
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 23:16
xenphor wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 13:27
I would be interested in trying out BFI but I'm afraid my eyes won't be able to tolerate it for very long. For example, I'm not able to use interlaced resolutions like 1080i on an LCD. Since a lot of the content I want to use it for is older retro stuff that's locked at 60hz, I'm guessing the flickering would be even worse than at 120hz+. Do I have the right assumptions?
INFO
Thanks for the info.

This may seem like a weird question, but do you know if the monitor accepts Limited Range RGB (meaning blacks would be gray)? I've had issues with eye strain when using Full Range RGB (even after adjusting brightness/contrast/saturation/gamma) and find that using Limited Range RGB is the only way to over come it (I realize this is not desirable by most people). I think it would also be helpful to reduce eye strain when using strobing.

I've tried monitors in the past that don't change when selecting Limited Range in the control panel which is why I ask.
For The Few People Who Like To Make Screen Blacks Brighter/Grayer For Vision Reasons

The XG2431 will do what you want to do. However, generically there’s also a workaround that works on any monitor:

On any monitor with appropriate picture adjustments (Contrast, R Gain, G Gain, B Gain, and/or a digital Brightness adjustment like NVIDIA Control Panel) you can quite accurately simulate Limited Range RGB using judicious digital-only (non-backlight) Contrast/Brightness changes with a colorimeter, or even eyeball it with a reference monitor.

Sometimes you have “Black Level” and “White Level” which can be used, but you can simply use Contrast, combined with R/G/B Gains, to squeeze/compress/shift your desired GPU color gamut as a subset within the monitor’s color gamut — accurately doing what you need.

Basically, you use one of the Lagom test patterns, and raise the black levels / lower the white level, so that you have brighter blacks without messing up the whites.

If you do not have a colorimeter, use www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php
Decrease contrast until the blacks are as grey as you want. Then adjust white level (via R/G/B gain) until you can see all the bright colors properly. Go back and forth (adjust Contrast to set your black, then adjust white level with whatever monitor adjustments allows you to, like R/G/B Gain, then go back to Contrast, then back to white level, then back to Contrast, then back to white level), jiggling back and fourth until you’ve got the perfect balance, because the adjustments can interact with each other.

If using NVIDIA Control Panel, use Contrast as your black level setter, and use Brightness as your white level setter. Adjust Contrast, Brightness, Contrast, Brightness, Contrast, Brightness. It’s a lot more jiggle back and forth but you can do it without monitor menus too.

Remember to ALWAYS write down the original picture adjustment settings, it’s easy to mess up the picture by randomly screwing around.

Or quick-n-dirty, you can simply use HDTV RGB range settings instead to kick your 0 IRE blacks to 7.5 IRE (aka 7.5% brightness, a dark gray), and use the HDMI input (which supports 240Hz) if DisplayPort doesn’t let you via monitor menus.

One big bonus of doing that is your strobe crosstalk will go down even further, because a raised black level gives you more overdrive undershoot room below your GPU blacks. The monitor can automatically overdrive via 0% black to speed a pixel transition from 90% white pixel to 7.5% near-black. So you sidestep a known slow part of the GtG heatmap known to many IPS LCD. It’s not quite as bad as VA LCDs, but near-white to near-black transitions are known “slow-ish” transitions, especially on cold panels.
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xenphor
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by xenphor » 08 Dec 2021, 15:38

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
08 Dec 2021, 13:48
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 23:16
xenphor wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 13:27
I would be interested in trying out BFI but I'm afraid my eyes won't be able to tolerate it for very long. For example, I'm not able to use interlaced resolutions like 1080i on an LCD. Since a lot of the content I want to use it for is older retro stuff that's locked at 60hz, I'm guessing the flickering would be even worse than at 120hz+. Do I have the right assumptions?
INFO
Snip
Thanks for the response. I forgot to mention that I have to use display port in order to use Freesync on my 1050ti otherwise I would use HDMI. I'm guessing since display port is PC centric, many monitors don't accept the Limited Range setting while using it.

I have tried to mess around with brightness, contrast, and RGB values but I've not been able to match what I see when using Limited Range. Would it be worth it to buy a colorimeter? Would that make the process more automatic? If so, do you know of good one to get?

edit: I watched a video on how to use a colorimeter and it seems to rely on an icc color profile to work. Is there a way to calibrate a display with a colorimeter independent of a color profile (only using onboard monitor controls)? I'm not sure if all my applications would support it. Also I would want other devices such as consoles to benefit from the calibration.

edit2: I read that games typically override a color profile so not sure how useful it would be.
Last edited by xenphor on 08 Dec 2021, 22:01, edited 2 times in total.

AM_acc1q
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by AM_acc1q » 08 Dec 2021, 20:18

Just finished tweaking my custom 120hz profile again. Does this look about right?
Center 3 "rows" look pretty good; gets pretty blurry at the top/bottom.

Interesting note: does adjusting gamma have any effect on things? I was having trouble getting the ghosting that's trailing the UFO to disappear, but after I used the gamma adjustment slider inside the Windows "Calibrate display color" tool with this pattern https://www.epaperpress.com/monitorcal/gamma.html, I was able to get better results.

Any way to adjust gamma from the monitor instead of Windows? I think it'll look different on a game console...

https://vimeo.com/654754782

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youmirinbrah
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by youmirinbrah » 09 Dec 2021, 07:38

Hey, does anyone know if there is any overshoot on the fastest response time setting on the xg2431?

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Discorz » 09 Dec 2021, 08:28

youmirinbrah wrote:
09 Dec 2021, 07:38
Hey, does anyone know if there is any overshoot on the fastest response time setting on the xg2431?
Ultra Fast setting does have overshoot (https://youtu.be/TdTwRDa9URo?t=60). Not sure why would you want to use that because there are better settings like Advanced overdrive. You can also tune it in one step increments by yourself, from 0-100 in Strobe Utility. So overshoot is not a problem on XG2431.
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Discorz » 09 Dec 2021, 13:03

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 19:03
The pulse with value is a percentage of a refresh cycle, and a strobe backlight's pulse width is the MPRT(100%) result.
It's a nice demonstration of what's going on. Even though it doesn't show exact MPRT for each refresh rate like:

XG2431 PureXP+:
@60Hz:
Light = non-strobed 150Hz mprt
Normal = non-strobed 200Hz mprt
Extreme = non-strobed 300Hz mprt
Ultra = non-strobed 600Hz mprt
@120Hz:
Light = non-strobed 300Hz mprt
Normal = non-strobed 400Hz mprt
Extreme = non-strobed 600Hz mprt
Ultra = non-strobed 1200Hz mprt
@240Hz:
Light = non-strobed 600Hz mprt
Normal = non-strobed 800Hz mprt
Extreme = non-strobed 1200Hz mprt
Ultra = non-strobed 2400Hz mprt
...

But due to panels not being able to achieve instant response times actual blur improvements aren't as linear as MPRT, especially at higher refresh rates.

XG2431 Pulse Width vs MPRT.png
XG2431 Pulse Width vs MPRT.png (30.82 KiB) Viewed 5267 times
60Hz at PW 25% has almost same blur as non-strobed 240Hz, but isn't as smooth, it flickers and its darker.
Image - non-strobed 240Hz
Image - strobed 60Hz PW ∼25%

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 09 Dec 2021, 19:06

Discorz wrote:
09 Dec 2021, 13:03
But due to panels not being able to achieve instant response times actual blur improvements aren't as linear as MPRT, especially at higher refresh rates.
Correct. You can get less motion blur at a lower impulsed refresh rate, than a higher sample-and-hold refresh rate.

It requires 10,000 Hz to reach 0.1ms MPRT (e.g. 100Hz at pulse width setting 1%, or 200Hz at pulse width setting 2%). But those would only peak at a few nits maximum, the most usable modes would be closer to 0.5ms MPRT and 1ms MPRT -- such as 100Hz or 200Hz at Ultra.

240Hz at factory PureXP Ultra achieves 0.4ms MPRT without the need of Strobe Utility! That definitely requires ~2400fps at 2400Hz to achieve without strobing.

That said, if you care more about motion blur than frame rate, you can use 120Hz PureXP Ultra (~0.83ms MPRT) or 120Hz PureXP Extreme (~1.66ms MPRT) to have less motion blur than 240Hz non-PureXP (4.16ms MPRT).

Besides, using refresh rate headroom avoids the strobe crosstalk problem of max-Hz strobing.

That's why ~120Hz is roughly at the sweet spot for the XG2431 if you're wanting quality-priority PureXP instead of latency-priority PureXP.
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Discorz » 10 Dec 2021, 02:23

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
09 Dec 2021, 19:06
240Hz at factory PureXP Ultra achieves 0.4ms MPRT without the need of Strobe Utility! That definitely requires ~2400fps at 2400Hz to achieve without strobing.
True, blur reduction is kinda also 'required framerate reduction' but in a good way.
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youmirinbrah
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by youmirinbrah » 10 Dec 2021, 05:15

Discorz wrote:
09 Dec 2021, 08:28
youmirinbrah wrote:
09 Dec 2021, 07:38
Hey, does anyone know if there is any overshoot on the fastest response time setting on the xg2431?
Ultra Fast setting does have overshoot (https://youtu.be/TdTwRDa9URo?t=60). Not sure why would you want to use that because there are better settings like Advanced overdrive. You can also tune it in one step increments by yourself, from 0-100 in Strobe Utility. So overshoot is not a problem on XG2431.
Well, I want to use the monitor at 240hz for competitive games like valorant with the lowest response time but would also like to use the backlight strobing to help see enemies clearer. Is there a recommended setting to use on the strobe utility program to achieve a low response time on 240hz with purexp enabled?

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