What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

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jorimt
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Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by jorimt » 02 Jul 2022, 10:59

Anonymous316387 wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 12:55
So okay, I'm sticking with the Asus and I'll probably test it one day, but I hope it won't have a huge reverse ghosting on the latest Overdrives (because I hate playing on the first overdrive modes because the 'input lag gets really high otherwise)
a huge thank you!
At the "Esports" overdrive preset, the PG279QM does not have visible inverse ghosting/overshoot. The highest "Extreme" preset does, and isn't usable for that reason.

Lower OD settings do not directly affect latency, only smearing/ghosting levels.

The highest overdrive setting on almost any monitor isn't usable, because it pushes the panel too hard trying to reduce average GtG, resulting in overshoot. The middle to upper middle OD settings are usually the best to use, as they balance overdrive to achieve the lowest average GtG possible on the given panel without introducing overshoot.

Whenever you see overshoot, it means the overvoltage applied with that overdrive preset is too high for the capabilities of the given panel's native GtG performance to keep up without artifacts.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 12:55
in 1080p 240hz, what is the best for you ? ( without backlight strobing )
I don't have any 240Hz 1080p monitors, just the 1440p PG279QM.

The last 1080p 240Hz monitor I had was the Acer Predator XB252Q, but that was a long time ago, and it was a very early first-gen 240Hz monitor.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

Anonymous316387

Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by Anonymous316387 » 02 Jul 2022, 18:22

jorimt wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 10:59
Anonymous316387 wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 12:55
So okay, I'm sticking with the Asus and I'll probably test it one day, but I hope it won't have a huge reverse ghosting on the latest Overdrives (because I hate playing on the first overdrive modes because the 'input lag gets really high otherwise)
a huge thank you!
At the "Esports" overdrive preset, the PG279QM does not have visible inverse ghosting/overshoot. The highest "Extreme" preset does, and isn't usable for that reason.

Lower OD settings do not directly affect latency, only smearing/ghosting levels.

The highest overdrive setting on almost any monitor isn't usable, because it pushes the panel too hard trying to reduce average GtG, resulting in overshoot. The middle to upper middle OD settings are usually the best to use, as they balance overdrive to achieve the lowest average GtG possible on the given panel without introducing overshoot.

Whenever you see overshoot, it means the overvoltage applied with that overdrive preset is too high for the capabilities of the given panel's native GtG performance to keep up without artifacts.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 12:55
in 1080p 240hz, what is the best for you ? ( without backlight strobing )
I don't have any 240Hz 1080p monitors, just the 1440p PG279QM.

The last 1080p 240Hz monitor I had was the Acer Predator XB252Q, but that was a long time ago, and it was a very early first-gen 240Hz monitor.
On my tests, the OD change the input lag, it's a feeling that i can feel, some people too.

But the highest overdrive settings of Viewsonic XG2431 are clearly usable but yes anyway in general the last overdrive settings are always bad or "meh", on some Alienware even the second overdrive settings are horrible...( AW2521HF for example )

but all monitor don't have the same handling of overdrive, some have very slow input lag even with the second overdrive settings but yeah reverse ghosting it's the thing to avoid ofc ! ( i have seen that on all my test of all listed monitor here )

Thank you for the answer ! i will test the Asus XG27AQM the next month and the MSI MAG274QRX when it come to my country :D

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Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by jorimt » 02 Jul 2022, 21:50

Anonymous316387 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 18:22
On my tests, the OD change the input lag, it's a feeling that i can feel, some people too.
Overdrive performance affects the amount and nature of trailing during pixel transitions. Again, this can't strictly be considered traditional "input lag," since it's not technically delaying the appearance of frame information (between overdrive presets on the same monitor), just making it blurrier.

Those of you who "feel" input lag differences between overdrive presets on the same monitor are definitely more sensitive to overdrive artifacts (or a lack thereof) to the point of distraction, which may genuinely affect your performance in comp situations.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 18:22
but all monitor don't have the same handling of overdrive
Indeed, overdrive tuning and performance can vary heavily from monitor model to monitor model, and some brands do it better than others, even when using the same panel.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 18:22
Thank you for the answer ! i will test the Asus XG27AQM the next month
Again, I can only personally speak to the PG279QM's overdrive performance because I own it, so even though the XG27AQM should have the same panel, I can't guarantee the overdrive tuning is the same, as I haven't used it, but feel free to let us know how you find its overdrive performance if you get the chance to test it out.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)


Anonymous316387

Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by Anonymous316387 » 03 Jul 2022, 08:44

jorimt wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 21:50
Anonymous316387 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 18:22
On my tests, the OD change the input lag, it's a feeling that i can feel, some people too.
Overdrive performance affects the amount and nature of trailing during pixel transitions. Again, this can't strictly be considered traditional "input lag," since it's not technically delaying the appearance of frame information (between overdrive presets on the same monitor), just making it blurrier.

Those of you who "feel" input lag differences between overdrive presets on the same monitor are definitely more sensitive to overdrive artifacts (or a lack thereof) to the point of distraction, which may genuinely affect your performance in comp situations.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 18:22
but all monitor don't have the same handling of overdrive
Indeed, overdrive tuning and performance can vary heavily from monitor model to monitor model, and some brands do it better than others, even when using the same panel.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 18:22
Thank you for the answer ! i will test the Asus XG27AQM the next month
Again, I can only personally speak to the PG279QM's overdrive performance because I own it, so even though the XG27AQM should have the same panel, I can't guarantee the overdrive tuning is the same, as I haven't used it, but feel free to let us know how you find its overdrive performance if you get the chance to test it out.

I can assure you that overdrive can change the perception of input lag, it may just be a feeling, it obviously doesn't change the input lag in itself, but as the screen refreshes pixels faster somehow mouse movements are more lively and responsive because the panel responds better in certain moments.
I noticed this on all my monitors.

If I put the overdrive on for example off, I'm sure my playing will feel slow and on top of that, it will be all blurry of course but there is also a feeling and clearly a real feeling that it responds faster, it's not the mouse that responds faster or the keyboard but the screen that responds better to what I'm doing and I'm very sensitive to that and on some screens it's even more obvious, on others it doesn't .

Otherwise, yes of course I would come here to talk about the asus if I try it but it will probably be next month...

Anonymous316387

Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by Anonymous316387 » 03 Jul 2022, 08:53

Hi, Honestly i really don't know....because all 1080P 240hz IPS are just a copy paste unfortunately...
But i have tried the MSI MAG251RX and the Asus VG259QM and the color accuracy for IPS panel are really bad ( certainly because it's 240hz ) but for the color accuracy that they done, you will better with BenQ XL2540K wich have better motion handling and overdrive handling too, better stand.

anyway the VG259QM for me it's the worst...and i've had 4 of this because one having stuck pixel issue etc and finally i've find that in comparison of other, it's the worst for me.

The ELMB are useless because too dark ( and i'm allergic to Backlight Strobing ) so is cause me headache.

The MSI MAG251RX is a little better for motion handling and overdrive but it's pratically the same...

and my unit of MAG251RX that i've had having clouding issue.

In fact, we must stop buying lots of screens in the same year, because they use the same panel and do not innovate enough.
MSI/ASUS etc just buy AUO OPTRONIC and other panels and slightly retouch the screen each time but in general it will be the same thing unfortunately...

Otherwise, I don't know what the AOC is worth...but I'm not a fan of their products, the VG258QM too i don't know if it's worth but it's TN panel so what do you think about the XL2540K ?

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jorimt
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Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by jorimt » 03 Jul 2022, 12:24

Anonymous316387 wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 08:44
I can assure you that overdrive can change the perception of input lag
I didn't suggest otherwise, merely that not all users are as distracted by overdrive artifacts, and that overdrive performance can't be considered "input lag" in the traditional sense.

Again, if you're sensitive to overdrive artifacts, and they distract you enough, it's plausible they may reduce your overall performance as a player in comp situations.

That said, if you are as sensitive to overdrive artifacts as you say, then you may never find an LCD adequate enough in this department.

Have you ever used an OLED or considered using an OLED for gaming (like a 42" LG C2 or 34" Alienware AW3423DW)? While they certainly have their own downsides and tradeoffs, unlike LCD, they have virtually zero GtG artifacts, and do not require overdrive.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

Anonymous316387

Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by Anonymous316387 » 03 Jul 2022, 12:46

jorimt wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 12:24
Anonymous316387 wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 08:44
I can assure you that overdrive can change the perception of input lag
I didn't suggest otherwise, merely that not all users are as distracted by overdrive artifacts, and that overdrive performance can't be considered "input lag" in the traditional sense.

Again, if you're sensitive to overdrive artifacts, and they distract you enough, it's plausible they may reduce your overall performance as a player in comp situations.

That said, if you are as sensitive to overdrive artifacts as you say, then you may never find an LCD adequate enough in this department.

Have you ever used an OLED or considered using an OLED for gaming (like a 42" LG C2 or 34" Alienware AW3423DW)? While they certainly have their own downsides and tradeoffs, unlike LCD, they have virtually zero GtG artifacts, and do not require overdrive.
I know sorry, I just wanted to say that overdrive changes the perception of how your devices respond, don't see it as something personal, I just have a hard time expressing myself, I use a translator haha, like I tried a lot of references, I can say that.

But yes, it does not change the input lag of the keyboard / mouse but in the idea you understood me haha.

Yes, ghosting is disturbing and we are all fighting against it! I dream of a monitor that has a very high overdrive without reverse ghosting (it's possible by limiting as much as possible like the XG2431 which has no or very little reverse ghosting)

In fact I put things in their context, I only want a 27 inch monitor in 1440p (I don't want below or above) so the 34 inch alienware, nope unfortunately.

I work on Photoshop from time to time and may soon be digital drawing on others, 3D and also starting some audio stuff on FLStudio, in short, a monitor that is capable of being good in colors and that must be be comfortable!

but I'm also a big high level apex legends player (I'm not the strongest, far from it, but I play it everyday and for a very long time) and this game has a lot of fast movement and adds a lot motion blur especially since the visibility is not great in this game, so I need a bigger screen (that's why I prefer the 27 inch to the 24 inch) with incredible gtg performance, like I'm allergic to backlight strobing which gives me huge headaches I can't use that, yet I've used plenty! but I can't....and since I don't like G-sync/VRR either because of the feeling of latency, I need a screen that handles classic overdrive performance well without having too much reverse ghosting no more.

Be careful, I never said that no LCD suits me (even if the LCD is super boring I admit!), it's just that the performance of the first panel in 24 inches 1080p IPS 240hz is bad... .but apparently I could see thanks to your advice that the asus ROG Strix XG27AQM and the MSI MAG274QRX are very good, because I have already inquired about other 1440p 240hz like the AW2721D but I would NEVER take it. ...Alienware/Dell's grainy anti-glare treatment is too high and I don't like their products at all + bad overdrive management because a lot of overshoot.

And concerning the asus you have, it's just too expensive I think and I don't care about the G-sync module, I already have an LG 48A1 (which is LG's worst OLED TV for gaming and the lowest end , even to play solo games and even if it's OLED, the 60hz is too disturbing ... it's just very blurry ..., yes that's my feeling haha! )

But I wonder....the MAG274QRX looks like it has a Sharp panel like in the M27QX from Gigabyte? except that the gigabyte M27QX would have a lot of overshoot....but I can't confirm that, I just saw it on reddit, the Asus XG27AQM when it would have an AUO OPTRONIC, so...yeah, in all the cases I will try both, I would make a post here for sure haha! :D
Thank you for everything !

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Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by jorimt » 03 Jul 2022, 14:27

Anonymous316387 wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 12:46
I know sorry, I just wanted to say that overdrive changes the perception of how your devices respond, don't see it as something personal, I just have a hard time expressing myself, I use a translator haha, like I tried a lot of references, I can say that.
No need to be sorry, and no offense taken.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 12:46
I'm allergic to backlight strobing which gives me huge headaches I can't use that, yet I've used plenty! but I can't....and since I don't like G-sync/VRR either because of the feeling of latency, I need a screen that handles classic overdrive performance well without having too much reverse ghosting no more.

Be careful, I never said that no LCD suits me (even if the LCD is super boring I admit!)

[...]

even if it's OLED, the 60hz is too disturbing ... it's just very blurry ..., yes that's my feeling haha! )
Even if you had an LCD with perfect overdrive performance, you'd still be stuck with image persistence (double image effect during fast panning) due to the sample-and-hold nature of OLED and LCD, so if you say OLED looks bad for you at 60Hz, which has virtually instantaneous pixel response times (and thus no overdrive artifacts), it's because the image will still double since you have a finite frame/refresh rate and you're not using strobing.

That's why I suggest you may never "solve" your problem, because you currently need to use OLED + strobing at a high frame/refresh rate to prevent overdrive artifacts AND double image artifacts.

The first problem is due to pixel response times, and the second is due to image persistence; both must be addressed separately, and until we have 1000Hz+ refresh rates and unlimited framerates in all games, only strobing will reduce image persistence, regardless of overdrive performance.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

Anonymous316387

Re: What is the best 1440p for motion blur ? (in IPS panel)

Post by Anonymous316387 » 03 Jul 2022, 14:56

jorimt wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 14:27
Anonymous316387 wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 12:46
I know sorry, I just wanted to say that overdrive changes the perception of how your devices respond, don't see it as something personal, I just have a hard time expressing myself, I use a translator haha, like I tried a lot of references, I can say that.
No need to be sorry, and no offense taken.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
03 Jul 2022, 12:46
I'm allergic to backlight strobing which gives me huge headaches I can't use that, yet I've used plenty! but I can't....and since I don't like G-sync/VRR either because of the feeling of latency, I need a screen that handles classic overdrive performance well without having too much reverse ghosting no more.

Be careful, I never said that no LCD suits me (even if the LCD is super boring I admit!)

[...]

even if it's OLED, the 60hz is too disturbing ... it's just very blurry ..., yes that's my feeling haha! )
Even if you had an LCD with perfect overdrive performance, you'd still be stuck with image persistence (double image effect during fast panning) due to the sample-and-hold nature of OLED and LCD, so if you say OLED looks bad for you at 60Hz, which has virtually instantaneous pixel response times (and thus no overdrive artifacts), it's because the image will still double since you have a finite frame/refresh rate and you're not using strobing.

That's why I suggest you may never "solve" your problem, because you currently need to use OLED + strobing at a high frame/refresh rate to prevent overdrive artifacts AND double image artifacts.

The first problem is due to pixel response times, and the second is due to image persistence; both must be addressed separately, and until we have 1000Hz+ refresh rates and unlimited framerates in all games, only strobing will reduce image persistence, regardless of overdrive performance.


Mmh honestly not at all, i think you don't understand what is my demand here :( , i'm good with my MAG274QRF-QD but it's only 165hz and i've play with 240hz 1080p few years, it's blurry because it's only 165hz and IPS panel.

i have seen the XL2540K wich have literally pratically zero ghosting and inverse ghosting and...it's LCD !, but it's TN and i don't want it.

For example you talking about the Alienware QD-OLED wich in theorically is perfect for GTG performance and ghosting but ghosting are not the only issue, Too Much Tech have tested the QD-OLED Alienware and he say that it's very good but if you have play with 240hz / 360hz LCD panel, you feel that you play with 175hz panel and it's so meh, first thing, i really need 240hz for smoothness.

If i don't like my LG 48A1 because they have bad processor and only 60hz... and honestly i have buy this TV for anime content and solo games like Detroit become human but yes it is logical that even at 60hz OLED are not good ( okay OLED are instantaneous but response time is not only thing to consider ) otherwise all pro players would be on oled...but playing on TV... and there are no gaming stuff on my LG, just a gaming mode lol, OLED are not perfect and IPS 165hz are so much better than 60hz OLED, because 60hz requires VRR and V-sync stuff or Backlight Strobing and if you add that ( on a TV ) you have literally a lot of latency, but anyway this is not the subject here but i'm agree with you a C2 could probably very good but, not for me.

I'm pretty sure a 1440p IPS 240hz will be totally fine with me, no problem, just i don't want a bad overdrive handling like some monitors.

i'm not agree with what you say about backlight strobing, because this technologie add a bad thing wich call's "Crosstalk" and i'm very sensitive to that and even on XL2546K i've had a lot of that if you having some drop of FPS it's worse, for me the backlight strobing thing is counterproductive due to the crosstalk ( and some headache if you are sensitive. ) and even with the Blur Buster Utility i've always had a crosstalk with all my monitor wich use DyAc stuff ( BenQ for example )

Anyway thank you, have a nice day :)

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