All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

[Sparky]

Your friend's monitor also has a 144hz refresh rate with g-sync off, which would help to mitigate the problem. A problem with the actual PC should show up in a frametime graph. The only other thing I can think of that wouldn't is a horrendous problem with the mouse.

[Glide]

It's difficult to tell anything in a 30 FPS video where you're just flailing the mouse around.
To demonstrate stutter you should be using slow and consistent panning movements with a keyboard or gamepad.
You also need to include useful stats like framerate, frame-times, and per-core CPU usage, which are large enough to not be eaten by YouTube compression.
Here's an example. (it's the game at fault here, Fallout 4's engine is totally broken)

I would say that you need to first avoid windowed mode and triple-buffering at all costs.
Beyond that I'm not sure what to recommend as I'm used to NVIDIA hardware.
Typically what I would do is disable in-game v-sync, force driver-based v-sync, and set the maximum number of pre-rendered frames (flip queue) to 1. Setting a framerate cap between 60 and 120 FPS (for 60Hz) may also help.
Some of my testing and results were posted here: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2052
I've no idea if that will help on AMD.

Failing that your only option is to get a FreeSync monitor (or switch back to NVIDIA plus G-Sync, as they tend to perform better if smoothness is your concern) but that still won't fix problems that are caused by the game engine stuttering. (e.g. that Fallout 4 video posted above)
I'd suggest that something like Rust is probably a bad test as it's an open-world game in an alpha state, so I would expect bad performance there.

[Jbinn]

It's difficult to tell anything in a 30 FPS video where you're just flailing the mouse around.
To demonstrate stutter you should be using slow and consistent panning movements with a keyboard or gamepad.
You also need to include useful stats like framerate, frame-times, and per-core CPU usage, which are large enough to not be eaten by YouTube compression.
Here's an example. (it's the game at fault here, Fallout 4's engine is totally broken)

I would say that you need to first avoid windowed mode and triple-buffering at all costs.
Beyond that I'm not sure what to recommend as I'm used to NVIDIA hardware.
Typically what I would do is disable in-game v-sync, force driver-based v-sync, and set the maximum number of pre-rendered frames (flip queue) to 1. Setting a framerate cap between 60 and 120 FPS (for 60Hz) may also help.
Some of my testing and results were posted here: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2052
I've no idea if that will help on AMD.

Failing that your only option is to get a FreeSync monitor (or switch back to NVIDIA plus G-Sync, as they tend to perform better if smoothness is your concern) but that still won't fix problems that are caused by the game engine stuttering. (e.g. that Fallout 4 video posted above)
I'd suggest that something like Rust is probably a bad test as it's an open-world game in an alpha state, so I would expect bad performance there.

In my videos I was doing small mouse movements? I can see the stutter/choppiness you can't in the video? Also all of those games in those videos are running @ 60+fps, the FPS of the games were shown in those videos. The frametimes never went over 20ms but depend mostly on my fps. Per core usage is normally between 75-100%.

Also that fallout stutter looks similar to mine but it seems like his stutter is due to vsync or capped frame rates mine stutters like that without vsync. I mean I guess from what you guys have told me and shown me it's pretty normal, I just cant help but feel its a problem with my PC and I can't play more than half of my games because of it, RUST is unplayable and its my favorite game, nobody else is having stutters issues in it that i'd talked to. and I never had issues in rust until now game ran silky smooth.

and like I said before if this is normal why can't I see stutter in any of the streamers or youtubers videos they all look smooth compared to my stutter videos.

Here is an example of RUST someone made a video for and its smooth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GopZRUyxxjw

Compare that with my rust video which stutters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFz30zLg6YE

Doesn't make sense both videos are 1080p@30fps. and its like that with all my games, they look smooth on other peoples videos and streams but mine stutter. I don't see how this I normal, it's not like I'm ignoring what you guys are saying in favor of what I want to hear, it's literally night and day when using other PC's and my own... But I've RMA'd basically everything and built anew PC from scratch so I can't figure out what it would be. It's not my mouse because I used my PC on a diff monitor/mouse/kb and did the same thing.

[lexlazootin]

freesync monitors have low ranges of 38-144hz

Are you seriously playing games at less then 38fps? That might be your issue lol.

some of my games force windowed mode

What games are that? G-Sync can do G-Sync in window mode but sadly not FreeSync.

I don't think 20fps is whats making it smooth because the games that stutter

Oh it can and it totally will...

It's totally KILLING pc gaming for me though, if I go on my 360 I see no tearing, no stutter go on my expensive PC and games are barely playable :-/

Consoles run V-Sync in almost every game.

Why must you run every game in borderless windowed? It seams like it's obviously causing problem with you.

[Glide]

In my videos I was doing small mouse movements?

You're doing small, fast, random movements here. You're also walking around while moving the mouse.
Compare that to the movement in this video. Player is stationary and I'm using a controller to rotate at a much slower, but also a constant speed. It makes it a lot easier for people to see the stutter you're trying to demonstrate.

What looks to stutter to you, may just look like erratic mouse movements to someone else.

Also all of those games in those videos are running @ 60+fps, the FPS of the games were shown in those videos. The frametimes never went over 20ms but depend mostly on my fps. Per core usage is normally between 75-100%.

If you're running at 60 FPS, record a 60 FPS video.
If your frametimes are hitting 20ms that's already a problem because 60 FPS is 16.67ms.
CPU usage should never hit 100% on a single core - that sounds like you're being bottlenecked by the CPU in those games.
AMD cards are far more reliant on CPU performance than NVIDIA cards because their drivers are only single-threaded, so perhaps that's why you're only seeing this problem after switching.

Just giving a rough estimate of your performance is not useful information. You need to either include it in your video via an overlay, or post graphs recorded alongside the video. FRAPS+FRAFS graphs are a better monitoring tool than Afterburner for frame times, though it's less convenient.

Also that fallout stutter looks similar to mine but it seems like his stutter is due to vsync or capped frame rates

No, that's just the engine being totally broken. If you set iFPSClamp=60 in the config, the game suddenly runs perfectly smoothly. The problem is that this tweak breaks the game's scripting in places.

I mean I guess from what you guys have told me and shown me it's pretty normal, I just cant help but feel its a problem with my PC and I can't play more than half of my games because of it, RUST is unplayable and its my favorite game, nobody else is having stutters issues in it that i'd talked to. and I never had issues in rust until now game ran silky smooth.

How does it run if you turn down the settings to the minimum and drop your resolution while keeping V-Sync on and applying a framerate cap of say 75 FPS? (to prevent overrun)

and like I said before if this is normal why can't I see stutter in any of the streamers or youtubers videos they all look smooth compared to my stutter videos.

If they're being recorded with ShadowPlay, it seems to do something when recording that can greatly improve frame-pacing in the recorded video's output. So even if the game is stuttering on the screen it can appear smooth in the video.

I used my PC on a diff monitor/mouse/kb and did the same thing.

But you hooked up an AMD GPU to a G-Sync display. That's not going to help. You need a FreeSync monitor for AMD. (or switch back to NVIDIA plus G-Sync)

What I don't get is when I hear about screen tearing most people don't say anything about screen judder/stutter or anything like that

Most people are apparently blind to it. Or the tearing is so distracting that they don't notice. One or the other.

Also one thing that sucks is the only affordable freesync monitors have low ranges of 38-144hz

Low Framerate Compensation was added to the Crimson driver a while back and should work at any framerate so long as the maximum refresh rate is at least 2.5x the minimum.

the games that stutter for me I get over 100fps all day, it's definitely less prominent at high FPS but between 60-120fps I can usually see it pretty aggressively.

If you're running at anything higher or lower than 60 FPS on a 60Hz monitor, it's not going to be smooth.
For smooth gameplay at 60Hz you need 60 FPS double-buffer v-synced.
Anything else will stutter.

The exception is when you get significantly higher than 60 FPS - say 300+ FPS - and you have V-Sync disabled in a full-screen exclusive game. Then the tearing is so close together that it starts to look like image skew instead of tearing.

[Jbinn]

freesync monitors have low ranges of 38-144hz

Are you seriously playing games at less then 38fps? That might be your issue lol.

some of my games force windowed mode

What games are that? G-Sync can do G-Sync in window mode but sadly not FreeSync.

I don't think 20fps is whats making it smooth because the games that stutter

Oh it can and it totally will...

It's totally KILLING pc gaming for me though, if I go on my 360 I see no tearing, no stutter go on my expensive PC and games are barely playable :-/

Consoles run V-Sync in almost every game.

Why must you run every game in borderless windowed? It seams like it's obviously causing problem with you.

No most of my games its 60-400fps haha theres a select few where I drop below 38fps (rust, arma2, arma3.) Really GSYNC works in windowed? that's cool, too bad never will I spend $600 for something I can get for $300 D: Also going from 100fps-120fps shouldn't be night and day difference but I guess maybe it's? I know on my setup going from 60-100fps makes almost no difference still stutters. I don't have to nor do I run windowed mode in all of my games, I use it to get rid of screen tearing and when in combination with FPS limiters it actually runs quite smooth on some games.

[Jbinn]

In my videos I was doing small mouse movements?

You're doing small, fast, random movements here. You're also walking around while moving the mouse.
Compare that to the movement in this video. Player is stationary and I'm using a controller to rotate at a much slower, but also a constant speed. It makes it a lot easier for people to see the stutter you're trying to demonstrate.

What looks to stutter to you, may just look like erratic mouse movements to someone else.

Also all of those games in those videos are running @ 60+fps, the FPS of the games were shown in those videos. The frametimes never went over 20ms but depend mostly on my fps. Per core usage is normally between 75-100%.

If you're running at 60 FPS, record a 60 FPS video.
If your frametimes are hitting 20ms that's already a problem because 60 FPS is 16.67ms.
CPU usage should never hit 100% on a single core - that sounds like you're being bottlenecked by the CPU in those games.
AMD cards are far more reliant on CPU performance than NVIDIA cards because their drivers are only single-threaded, so perhaps that's why you're only seeing this problem after switching.

Just giving a rough estimate of your performance is not useful information. You need to either include it in your video via an overlay, or post graphs recorded alongside the video. FRAPS+FRAFS graphs are a better monitoring tool than Afterburner for frame times, though it's less convenient.

Also that fallout stutter looks similar to mine but it seems like his stutter is due to vsync or capped frame rates

No, that's just the engine being totally broken. If you set iFPSClamp=60 in the config, the game suddenly runs perfectly smoothly. The problem is that this tweak breaks the game's scripting in places.

I mean I guess from what you guys have told me and shown me it's pretty normal, I just cant help but feel its a problem with my PC and I can't play more than half of my games because of it, RUST is unplayable and its my favorite game, nobody else is having stutters issues in it that i'd talked to. and I never had issues in rust until now game ran silky smooth.

How does it run if you turn down the settings to the minimum and drop your resolution while keeping V-Sync on and applying a framerate cap of say 75 FPS? (to prevent overrun)

and like I said before if this is normal why can't I see stutter in any of the streamers or youtubers videos they all look smooth compared to my stutter videos.

If they're being recorded with ShadowPlay, it seems to do something when recording that can greatly improve frame-pacing in the recorded video's output. So even if the game is stuttering on the screen it can appear smooth in the video.

I used my PC on a diff monitor/mouse/kb and did the same thing.

But you hooked up an AMD GPU to a G-Sync display. That's not going to help. You need a FreeSync monitor for AMD. (or switch back to NVIDIA plus G-Sync)

What I don't get is when I hear about screen tearing most people don't say anything about screen judder/stutter or anything like that

Most people are apparently blind to it. Or the tearing is so distracting that they don't notice. One or the other.

Also one thing that sucks is the only affordable freesync monitors have low ranges of 38-144hz

Low Framerate Compensation was added to the Crimson driver a while back and should work at any framerate so long as the maximum refresh rate is at least 2.5x the minimum.

the games that stutter for me I get over 100fps all day, it's definitely less prominent at high FPS but between 60-120fps I can usually see it pretty aggressively.

If you're running at anything higher or lower than 60 FPS on a 60Hz monitor, it's not going to be smooth.
For smooth gameplay at 60Hz you need 60 FPS double-buffer v-synced.
Anything else will stutter.

The exception is when you get significantly higher than 60 FPS - say 300+ FPS - and you have V-Sync disabled in a full-screen exclusive game. Then the tearing is so close together that it starts to look like image skew instead of tearing.

Well I mean I don't have a controller to test it with I can do some videos standing still while panning slower, but regardless I can visually see what I'm talking about perfectly from the videos I have posted can you not? if not that's weird because its really obvious to me, just as obvious as that fallout 4 video. Also I was making a guess about the frametime, I stated it never goes above 20ms I never said that it's AT 20ms, it fluctuates based off my FPS the higher my FPS the lower my frametime. Also while playing I almost NEVER max my CPU out, its a 6600K @ 4.5GHZ its as high end as it comes without getting HT. My GPU on the otherhand is nearly almost always maxed out. Also I know I tried a GSYNC monitor with a AMD GPU which doesn't work but we didn't have GSYNC enabled for his 980TI either and it looked 10000x smoother and better even when NOT using the monitors technology. Also your last statement is the only one I can 100% agree on, that when I get over like 150+ FPS I cant notice the stutter or tearing because I'm getting so many frames, but unfortunately theres only like old games or crappy games that I get FPS that high in haha, all the games I play religiously I get under 100 fps in. By far the worst game for me right now is RUST the stutter is so unbearable I uninstalled the game and havn't played it since.

So what you all are telling me is this is normal? you all have stutter to and just deal with it?

[Sparky]

If you're going to use fullscreen windowed, cap framerate at 60fps (in game), and turn down every setting you have to in order to hit that framerate all the time. Now, most framerate caps are only approximate, so count how frequent the dropped frames are, use a stopwatch to count how far off you are, and divide the number of dropped frames by the time measured. Then add that to the framerate cap. Subtract if you're missing frame deadlines instead of dropping frames. You won't get perfection this way, but you can reduce the number of hitches pretty significantly.

The problem with that technique is inconsistent latency. I think the vast majority of people on this forum use freesync, g-sync or vsync off(just live with the tearing and push for high framerates). I also think most of us have displays with refresh rate higher than 60, if not variable refresh.

Also, for all we know those other youtubers are playing with standard v-sync and crippling input lag.

[Glide]

theres a select few where I drop below 38fps (rust, arma2, arma3.)

Low Framerate Compensation should handle that if you buy a suitable FreeSync monitor.
If the framerate is dropping below 60, those games will only look smooth on a variable refresh rate display.
However VRR isn't magic. Though it eliminates judder, low framerates still look like low framerates. What people find to be acceptable varies from person to person.

Really GSYNC works in windowed? that's cool, too bad never will I spend $600 for something I can get for $300

Well it's clearly not the same, since FreeSync doesn't work in windowed mode right now, and G-Sync has additional features like ULMB.
I suspect that AMD are currently working on Windowed Mode FreeSync though, since Microsoft said that it will be supported in UWP applications later this year, and those don't support FSE mode.

I don't have to nor do I run windowed mode in all of my games, I use it to get rid of screen tearing and when in combination with FPS limiters it actually runs quite smooth on some games.

Doing that means the framerate is not being kept in sync with the display, so it will stutter. You need to use FSE mode with double-buffered V-Sync and have your framerate equal to the refresh rate to eliminate stutter.

I can do some videos standing still while panning slower, but regardless I can visually see what I'm talking about perfectly from the videos I have posted can you not? if not that's weird because its really obvious to me

It's obvious to you because you made the video and you know exactly where it was stuttering. 30 FPS motion already judders to my eyes, so the additional judder you're seeing is not obvious to me. It just looks like erratic mouse movements.

Also I was making a guess about the frametime, I stated it never goes above 20ms I never said that it's AT 20ms, it fluctuates based off my FPS the higher my FPS the lower my frametime. Also while playing I almost NEVER max my CPU out, its a 6600K @ 4.5GHZ its as high end as it comes without getting HT. My GPU on the otherhand is nearly almost always maxed out.

Well there are three red flags.
Post 60 FPS videos that actually show per-core CPU usage, GPU usage, and frame-times in the stats. Make sure Afterburner is set to the fastest polling rate too.
Without this information there's no way to determine the cause of your stuttering.

You should never be hitting 100% CPU usage on any one core or 100% GPU usage if you want smooth gameplay.
The only exception to that rule is when using variable refresh rate displays, which will put significantly more load on your GPU because framerates are uncapped up to the maximum refresh rate, rather than being synced to 60Hz.

Also I know I tried a GSYNC monitor with a AMD GPU which doesn't work but we didn't have GSYNC enabled for his 980TI either and it looked 10000x smoother and better even when NOT using the monitors technology.

Completely different system so there are a million different potential factors.
As I said though, the NVIDIA drivers are multi-threaded for DX11 while AMD's are not, which can result in worse performance on AMD compared to NVIDIA even with a faster GPU because you end up bottlenecked by the CPU bottleneck first. (a frequent source of stuttering)
NVIDIA are generally known to be a lot better for things like frame pacing and V-Sync.

Also your last statement is the only one I can 100% agree on, that when I get over like 150+ FPS I cant notice the stutter or tearing because I'm getting so many frames, but unfortunately theres only like old games or crappy games that I get FPS that high in haha, all the games I play religiously I get under 100 fps in. By far the worst game for me right now is RUST the stutter is so unbearable I uninstalled the game and havn't played it since.

You have a 60Hz fixed refresh rate monitor. Games need to be running at 60 FPS.
Not higher or lower, but exactly 60.

If your system can't achieve that, you need a variable refresh rate monitor (FreeSync/G-Sync) to eliminate judder.
Variable Refresh Rate displays can only fix the problem of framerates not being equal to your refresh rate though. If the cause of stuttering is something else, like your CPU not being fast enough or a badly designed engine, it can't fix that.

So what you all are telling me is this is normal? you all have stutter to and just deal with it?

No, I turn down game settings enough that the framerate never drops below 60, and also apply the tweaks mentioned in my previous post.
Stuttering is completely unacceptable to me.

Because there have been so many poorly optimized games released recently, I'm strongly considering getting a G-Sync monitor despite the fact that they're all small low-quality panels and very overpriced in my opinion.
I've been trying to hold out in the hopes of there being an OLED G-Sync monitor - or ideally a G-Sync (or Adaptive-Sync) OLED Television - being released, because I'm currently using a 50" display with 5000:1 native contrast and ~100 zones of local dimming, and going back to a 27" 1000:1 monitor sucks.

[Jbinn]

What is FSE and how do I enable double buffer? I'm also aware the having my frame rate equal to my monitor frequency and enabling VSYNC takes care of stutter I never argued that, that has been my point from the first post... My point is why am I stuttering with VSYNC disabled and nobody else notices or complains about it? It makes it feel like I'm the only one who has stuttering without VSYNC that's my whole argument here, I understand tearing and I can live with that but stutter when I move the mouse annoys me to no end. All of my friends are playing RUST with no issues and my game is a stuttering mess. Also rust doesn't work with MSI afterburner which is the main game i'm having issues with, and its force to run in windowed mode.

That makes no sense (I made the video so I know when its going to stutter.) I can see the stutter constantly without the video, I can see it in the video, I also never said anything about 30FPS all of those videos were with 60fps gameplay, even in person it looks bad... Maybe your eyes just cant see what mine see or you're not as picky? maybe some people just live with it not knowing any better? Because this literally makes me sick, it makes the games look ugly... If I wanted ugly games I'd buy a $400 console, I honestly have no idea how you guys can call it "eratic mouse movement." and not see the stutter I'm talking about, I've shown people those videos that agree it doesn't look right. Please explain to me what I need to capture in my video for you to clearly see my issue? I posted like 5 videos highlighting the issue and its VERY APPARENT to me you can see the skips in World of Warships when I pan the camera. I'll try to get a 60fps video but I have no idea how to upload a 60fps video on youtube.

Also I'm well aware I need 60fps because of 60hz... But what you're not getting is that nobody else has these complaints, I've used other PC's and never seen this problem before. This isn't me being uneducated or too picky this Is a problem I've had recently and only recently and its a problem that's so bad I cant even enjoy my games, so its a big problem.