240hz monitor ghosting/double image artifact

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yuri
Posts: 46
Joined: 09 Jun 2022, 14:19

Re: 240hz monitor ghosting/double image artifact

Post by yuri » 04 Jul 2022, 13:54

I have tested, MSI mag274qrf-qd. Acer xb272u kb..
Asus pg279q.

Of All of these i never Saw this issue only picture problem like backlight bleed ips Glow dead pixel etc.

Just on the MSI there was overshoot because overdrive was lock with vrr.

Well for me motion Blur help to Mask the strobe effect, but there are still image persistence if i Flick too fast. But metro exodus Also have TAA ghosting wich is totally awful..

I allways disable motion Blur on console but now with my issue i need it because at high refresh rate the strobe is more easy to see


Yeah i see the strobocopic but in games there Also the persistence right ?


Yes at 120fps at 240hz if you don't set to off the overdrive you Can clearly see white overshoot trail on the Volga level of métro Exodus all trees smear if you pan the camera not to fast. Go check rtings overshoot table. ( I cap my FPS at 120 for metro)
Hopefully thé fall/Rise Time is low enough but you Can sometime see it depend of the transition.

Btw at 240fps the overshoot is at 20. But the fall is at 2ms.

So yeah it's better than my old tn panel but overdrive isnt fast enough above 120hz to remove all ghosting whitout overshoot..

The acer xb272u kbp overdrive was better than pg279qm. But you paid the Bad uniformity instead.

The pg279qm is the best one no doubt about it but the overdrive settings is not that great because there is no mode below e-sport that make ghosting/overshoot under control in all refresh rates.

So sometimes like CS GO i got strobe + overshoot + motion persistence that gave me weird artifact.
And its hard to not take attention to it.

But maybe im just overthinking it because i never Saw strobe on a tn 60hz panel.
And the motion feel not natural for me because i ve never try 240hz.

But yeah it's pick your poison if you got a good motion panel you paid it by a worst overall quality.
With Glow banding vertical scan Line backlight bleeding.

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jorimt
Posts: 2481
Joined: 04 Nov 2016, 10:44
Location: USA

Re: 240hz monitor ghosting/double image artifact

Post by jorimt » 04 Jul 2022, 23:36

yuri wrote:
04 Jul 2022, 13:54
Yeah i see the strobocopic but in games there Also the persistence right ?
Both image persistence and the stroboscopic effect on sample-and-hold displays are ultimately caused by the finite refresh/framerate ratio. It doesn't matter if it's a game, an app, or a moving test pattern, it will occur regardless.

If you could run Metro at 240 FPS/240Hz instead of 120 FPS/240Hz, the effect (separate of any overdrive artifacts or in-game post- process motion blur) would be reduced on your particular monitor, and if you ran it on a 360Hz monitor at 360 FPS, there would be even less, and at 480Hz 480 FPS, even less, and so on...

But there's the issue; you can't always run every game at whatever framerate you want, let alone at the max refresh rate, and even if you had a 1000Hz monitor and set it to 1000Hz, the amount of stroboscopic effect would still be limited by how high your average framerate could be sustained in non-BFI scenarios.

I.E. 120 FPS at 1000Hz would effectively look the same as 120 FPS at 120Hz where non-BFI sample-and-hold image persistence and stroboscopic effects are concerned, even if the 1000Hz display had 0ms GtG and no overdrive artifacts.
yuri wrote:
04 Jul 2022, 13:54
But maybe im just overthinking it because i never Saw strobe on a tn 60hz panel.
And the motion feel not natural for me because i ve never try 240hz.
The lower the refresh rate + the slower the native GtG of the panel, the more it can mask the stroboscopic effect by blending the gaps of the doubled image via more inherit pixel response time blur.

In other words, a display with a lower native GtG and better overdrive tuning will cause a more obvious stroboscopic effect compared to a display with a higher native GtG and worse overdrive tuning at same refresh rate and framerate.

To summarize, perfect overdrive performance does not fully solve motion clarity issues; OLED has basically achieved ~0ms GtG with virtually zero overdrive artifacts already (it doesn't even have perceivable crosstalk with BFI enabled), yet image persistence (without BFI) and the stroboscopic effect remain.

If you want to eliminate all forms of motion blur on scanout-based displays as we know them, you'll need to build a time machine and travel to a future where they have developed a 1000Hz+ display with instantaneous pixel response times paired with a console and/or PC that can sustain a 1000 FPS+ average framerate in every single game, and that's not even counting other display characteristics that still need to be addressed and/or considered, like screen size, form factor, weight, resolution, contrast ratio, peak brightness, viewing angles, processing latency, heat management, energy consumption, and so on...

Anyway, until then, we wait and deal with what's available *shrugs.*
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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