[Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

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Loyal888
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[Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Loyal888 » 17 Jul 2022, 08:53

Greetings!

I have astigmatism. I can't stand IPS or VA monitors because they cause me eyestrains. I can stand Apple displays and TN panel monitors. I have found 3 other person who has astigmatism and they are sensitive to IPS and VA as well. They use TN panel monitors. Is there a connection here or just a coincidence? I had Nano IPS as well before which was truly awful but many people are reporting eye strain issues with nano ips panels. Some people are reporting issues with IPS panels as well in terms of eye strain and headaches.

I saw a post, which I am not able to find unfortunately. BlurBuster chief mentioned in that post that He has astigmatism as well. I am curious what monitor panel does He use? Is it TN?

I hope he will see my post and will be able to help with my question.

Thank you!

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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Blizz » 17 Jul 2022, 19:40

I have astigmatism and never had eyestrain from TN to IPS however display being overly bright can cause eyestrain.

Anonymous316387

Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Anonymous316387 » 19 Jul 2022, 18:16

Loyal888 wrote:
17 Jul 2022, 08:53
Greetings!

I have astigmatism. I can't stand IPS or VA monitors because they cause me eyestrains. I can stand Apple displays and TN panel monitors. I have found 3 other person who has astigmatism and they are sensitive to IPS and VA as well. They use TN panel monitors. Is there a connection here or just a coincidence? I had Nano IPS as well before which was truly awful but many people are reporting eye strain issues with nano ips panels. Some people are reporting issues with IPS panels as well in terms of eye strain and headaches.

I saw a post, which I am not able to find unfortunately. BlurBuster chief mentioned in that post that He has astigmatism as well. I am curious what monitor panel does He use? Is it TN?

I hope he will see my post and will be able to help with my question.

Thank you!
i'm not really sure what is your problem, i have astigmatism too and myopia and the only thing that i see is the sub-pixel, i can literally see the red or blue pixel on the outline of the text, and I see chromatic aberration but i don't think it's only IPS or VA, i don't know if i've this on TN....it's interesting.

Anyway sorry i don't know what you want to say about your problem with astigmatism, for me ALL panel cause me eyestrain, especially TN with backlight strobing or TN without strobing but with the contrast/brightness on TN, the image is often burned on TN panel with weird saturated/bright colors.

But it's clearly interesting what you say.

For answering, yes i've also eyestrain with my IPS panel, it's a MSI MAG274QRF-QD 1440p 165hz panel and it's flicker free.

Maybe your screen is not perfectly flicker-free? I say that because my old monitor the Dell S2721DGFA actually had flickering at certain frequency ranges and I felt it (like many people) you can see that on Rtings, but it wasn't so much eye fatigue that I but had headaches with flickering.

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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Jul 2022, 04:28

There are MANY causes of eyestrain that are not related to flicker or PWM.
- antiglare
- polarization
- pixel structure
- brightness
- contrast
- color gamut
- blur eyestrain
- stutter eyestrain
- screen too bright relative to environment
- etc

Everybody is different. Some people get more motion blur eyestrain, to the point where strobing reduces eystrain (especially when using VSYNC ON framerate=Hz, especially when reducing strobe crosstalk via refresh rate headroom, e.g. 120fps 120Hz on a 240Hz panel). So your eyestrain won't be the same as others.

Strobing framerate=Hz is often less eyestrain than PWM dimming, because the phantom array effect is the bigger eyestrain cause than the direct flicker itself.

Brightness strain test: Reduce brightness via monitor OSD. If already too low, adjust using NVIDIA Control Panel. Add a bias light behind your monitor so your monitor is not rudely blatantly the brightest object in your vision field.

Blur eyestrain: Turn strobing on and see what happens (optional, but recommended, use framerate=Hz too as strobing amplifies jitters)

Stutter eyestrain: Test VSYNC ON (or similar framerate=Hz sync technology like RTSS Scanline Sync) or use VRR.

Color gamut strain test: Reduce contrast in NVIDIA Control Panel and see what happens

Polarization strain test: Most monitors use a rotatable stand, so rotate your monitor 90 degrees (And configure Control Panel for a portrait display) and see if your eyestrain changes on your IPS panel. Some people are eyestrain-sensitive to the light polarization of certain LCDs. Many IPS panels are polarized 90 degrees differently than many TN panels. Also, AUO vs Innolux sometimes have different polarizations.

Some are difficult to test (e.g. antiglare texture test).

Unfortuantely, you will have to self-diagnose, as there are too many eyestrain causes of a monitor.
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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Jul 2022, 12:56

Loyal888 wrote:
17 Jul 2022, 08:53
Greetings!
Were you able to find out the specific cause of your eyestrain via my self-diagnosis suggestions?

This stuff is way out of an optometrist’s alley because of the “special” considerations of gaming monitors, so you have to do some self-tests above-and-beyond what they would normally test your vision for.
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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Loyal888 » 03 Aug 2022, 10:43

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 12:56
Loyal888 wrote:
17 Jul 2022, 08:53
Greetings!
Were you able to find out the specific cause of your eyestrain via my self-diagnosis suggestions?

This stuff is way out of an optometrist’s alley because of the “special” considerations of gaming monitors, so you have to do some self-tests above-and-beyond what they would normally test your vision for.
I'm sorry for the late reply. I didn't buy a monitor since then due to family issues. I am stuck with a syncmaster b2230n at the moment which is an old 60Hz TN panel. I'm kind of afraid buying an IPS / Nano-IPS panel monitor. I would love to though, because of the low response times and good colors. I was looking at some 1440p 165Hz VA panel monitors as well, because I tried a VA panel monitor (msi g27cq4) and it was easier to look at than my old 2720HFA Alienware Nano IPS monitor. So maybe VA is not out of the context.

I went to an optomertist as well. Unfortunately, my old optometrist moved to another city. The new one I went to was unfortunately unprofessional and she misdiagnosed me (only checked my for 5 mins, which was absurd). She gave me eyedrops but they didn't work, they made my eyes worse. Since I don't take those eyedrops, it's better than it was with the eyedrops, but same as before. I have another appointment scheduled for next week. I am going to post about that too. I have glasses too and I got my vision checked elsewhere, it's the same, nothing changed, it didn't become worse fortunately.

This bad eyestrain all started with the nano ips panel :\

I will definitely try your suggestions, well some of it, since I don't have the IPS monitor anymore. I returned it.

Also, I will keep you posted.

Thank you for your help!

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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Aug 2022, 04:26

An Optometrist will be very helpful but monitors have a lot of hidden eyestrain causes that the majority of optometrists are unfamiliar with (except a few line items). Blur Busters was able to help a few people self-diagnose gaming monito related eyestrains, see this thread:

(Adding additional items I forgot in previous post)

Low Blue Light
I forgot an additional line item, called "Low Blue Light". (partial fix)
You can also attempt orange-tinted computer glasses, as an external method (fuller fix than a monitor's built-in low blue light). Also try various different redder/bluer color temps, to at least cover more ground.

Test Different Color Temperatures
Because of prismatic effects (where some lens spread specific wavelengths less than others -- and your eye is a lens), astigmatism can look different with red light vs green light vs blue light, so changing spectrum may change astigmatism-related strains on a display too. (This is a separate effect than circadian rhythm related effects) -- pushing a display redder/bluer may actually reduce astigmatism-induced vision blurring. Usually it's redder (and Low Blue Light), so you're hitting two birds with one stone to alleviate circadian rhythm issue and astigmatism-related (since short-wavelength blue light tends to blur more in an astigmatism condition).

Viewing Distance + Screen Size
Also, viewing distance -- try a bigger screen set up further away. Some people actually use a television set as a monitor, which is actually very viable, since a recalibrated 4K TV can be excellent at a 3-4 foot distance. Even LG OLEDs are a popular favourite, despite the image retention concerns especially in earlier OLEDs or too-bright-setting'd OLEDs (can be largely solved in newer OLEDs if you drive them at only ~120 nits PhotoShop recommended calibration).

Attempting self-diagnosis is something not always recommended by many but, in the situation of gaming monitors, it is absolutely necessary, because of the big rabbit hole gaming monitors are related to vision strain issues. More than 99% of optometrist will not be able to successfully diagnose non-PWM-related / non-focus-related gaming monitor issues. You should use an optometrist to cover the basics, but you will need the self-diagnosis route to fine-tune your gaming monitor selection.
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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Loyal888 » 10 Aug 2022, 12:59

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
04 Aug 2022, 04:26
An Optometrist will be very helpful but monitors have a lot of hidden eyestrain causes that the majority of optometrists are unfamiliar with (except a few line items). Blur Busters was able to help a few people self-diagnose gaming monito related eyestrains, see this thread:

(Adding additional items I forgot in previous post)

Low Blue Light
I forgot an additional line item, called "Low Blue Light". (partial fix)
You can also attempt orange-tinted computer glasses, as an external method (fuller fix than a monitor's built-in low blue light). Also try various different redder/bluer color temps, to at least cover more ground.

Test Different Color Temperatures
Because of prismatic effects (where some lens spread specific wavelengths less than others -- and your eye is a lens), astigmatism can look different with red light vs green light vs blue light, so changing spectrum may change astigmatism-related strains on a display too. (This is a separate effect than circadian rhythm related effects) -- pushing a display redder/bluer may actually reduce astigmatism-induced vision blurring. Usually it's redder (and Low Blue Light), so you're hitting two birds with one stone to alleviate circadian rhythm issue and astigmatism-related (since short-wavelength blue light tends to blur more in an astigmatism condition).

Viewing Distance + Screen Size
Also, viewing distance -- try a bigger screen set up further away. Some people actually use a television set as a monitor, which is actually very viable, since a recalibrated 4K TV can be excellent at a 3-4 foot distance. Even LG OLEDs are a popular favourite, despite the image retention concerns especially in earlier OLEDs or too-bright-setting'd OLEDs (can be largely solved in newer OLEDs if you drive them at only ~120 nits PhotoShop recommended calibration).

Attempting self-diagnosis is something not always recommended by many but, in the situation of gaming monitors, it is absolutely necessary, because of the big rabbit hole gaming monitors are related to vision strain issues. More than 99% of optometrist will not be able to successfully diagnose non-PWM-related / non-focus-related gaming monitor issues. You should use an optometrist to cover the basics, but you will need the self-diagnosis route to fine-tune your gaming monitor selection.
So, I went to the optometrist today, my eyes were horrible 2-3 days ago. I could barely fall asleep because my eyes wanted to keep opening. For some reason, after that the eyestrain significantly reduced, however nothing changed in my life. This happened before and the eyestrain, pain, burning came back eventually. Therefore, I didn't cancel my appointment.

At first, she said without taking a serious look at it, that it looks fine. Then she looked at it with her equipments. Then after those she checked if I have allergies. She turned one of my eyelids inside out with a cotton swab. It turned out I have some sort of allergy. She said that because, my eyelid inside has a strong raspberry tone. She gave me prescription for the allergy. Although, I don't have any other symptoms like blocked nose or any other symptoms. She didn't recommend it to diagnose it. She even have it from time to time. Could be even pollen.

I went to her, because in my country she is highly respected and it's hard to get an appointment to her. It took me 3 weeks of waiting. I paid 70 euros for the check up and 15 more for the eyedrops. She often go to the USA, Germany and Japan to optometrist conventions to study furthermore. She even did checks with my eyes that no optometrist did before. Hopefully, if anyone stumbles upon this post. It will be helpful for that person. I will check back though, if my issues went away with the eyedrops.

She also recommended preservative free lubricant eyedrops for daily use because I'm working with computers daily. She said she is looking at the screen a lot as well and that helps her greatly. I did say to her that I started to use those 2 weeks ago and it helped my eyes not to feel that bad, but the symptoms remained, which is the allergy.

I mentioned to her nano ips screens causing eye troubles and she said that in her recent visit to New York, this came up in one of the conventions.

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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Aug 2022, 00:29

Excellent to see that you've traced at least one cause --

Keep an observant eye (pun) on differnces in eyestrains/ailments between different screens. Be noted that this does not include possible secondary irritants related to your screen tech (that might still need to also be self-diagnosed)
Loyal888 wrote:
10 Aug 2022, 12:59
I mentioned to her nano ips screens causing eye troubles and she said that in her recent visit to New York, this came up in one of the conventions.
Screen-tech-related eyestrain/nausea/ailments/irritant is extremely hard to diagnose.

First, see if her solution solved the issue.
But if you are still getting differences in eyestrain between different screen technology (and/or settings), narrowing down the (secondary) cause may be useful.
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Re: [Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

Post by Loyal888 » 31 Aug 2022, 01:06

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 00:29
Excellent to see that you've traced at least one cause --

Keep an observant eye (pun) on differnces in eyestrains/ailments between different screens. Be noted that this does not include possible secondary irritants related to your screen tech (that might still need to also be self-diagnosed)
Loyal888 wrote:
10 Aug 2022, 12:59
I mentioned to her nano ips screens causing eye troubles and she said that in her recent visit to New York, this came up in one of the conventions.
Screen-tech-related eyestrain/nausea/ailments/irritant is extremely hard to diagnose.

First, see if her solution solved the issue.
But if you are still getting differences in eyestrain between different screen technology (and/or settings), narrowing down the (secondary) cause may be useful.
Thank you for your help. I deeply appreciate it!

It turned out that I have lactose intolerance / dairy allergy. The eyestrain came from that as well and I had nasal blockage as well for months now but I thought that's because of the pollen. When I started to take the eyedrops for the allergy, it cleared my nasal tunnels on the first two days. Now, I have not ate dairy for 3 days and my eyes never looked this good for a long time now. I just wanted to write this down, in case someone is having eyestrain, that it could be even lactose intolerance / dairy allergy as well.

I didn't get any prescription for the allergy, it's not treatable. I have to avoid dairy for good.

Have a nice day!

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