Is TN always the king ?!

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Anonymous316387

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Anonymous316387 » 28 Jul 2022, 16:00

Boomchakadah wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 04:22
Anonymous316387 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 13:30
Is TN always the king
For motion clarity, yes.
Thank you for the answer !

I think it too !

Anonymous316387

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Anonymous316387 » 28 Jul 2022, 16:02

1000WATT wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 07:29
Anonymous316387 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 17:53
In any case I'm too sad to see that in terms of motion blur IPS still don't come close to TNs, in reality you'll laugh but when you take the Asus IPS 360hz VS an Asus 144hz TN I I have the impression that the TN is always less blurry, I don't know if it comes from the Rtings tests but that's what we see.
Please don't mislead people.
Sorry i have don't understand why you have say that.
But that's definitely not my goal.
Have a nice day.

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Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Jul 2022, 22:05

Anonymous316387 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 13:30
Hi, i know, fast-ips becoming better than before but actually, in terms of motion blur only ( not for response time ) TN are always the winner, you can check on Rtings Website that with some IPS the Rtings logo is always very blurry with bigger letter than on TN.
Check the XG2431 IPS review.

It's Blur Busters Approved BFI mode is clearer than many TN panels.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Jul 2022, 22:09

Boomchakadah wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 04:22
For motion clarity, yes.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 16:00
Thank you for the answer !
I think it too !
The TN and IPS venn diagram already overlaps now.

The problem is most users don't see thousands of monitors (like I do) and is unable to cherrypick.

If you randomly choose 3 TN panels and choose 3 IPS panels, you may not see my experience.
That's where users make the wrong assumption.

There are clearly now IPS monitors that has less motion blur than TN monitors.

But sometimes people don't go apples-vs-apples (e.g. you get a 360Hz IPS and try to compare against a 240Hz TN) because the refeshtime:gtgtime ratios are wildly different, and it's possible to see more ghosting on 360Hz IPS than a 240Hz TN. But guess what? A good 240Hz IPS ghosts more symmetrically than a 360Hz IPS, since the leadGtG:trailingGtG asymmetry is worse with some IPS panels (for example GtG time of grey->white may be slower than white->grey ... creating asymmetric ghosting effects that look worse for some people). Even though 360Hz can have clearer motion, the motion blur may not be as symmetric as a 240Hz IPS or 240Hz TN. They are still working on improving those.

Also quality may be different for:
- Fixed Hz
- VRR
- Strobed

This is where, sometimes IPS<->TN can swap sides, for certain settings. The ViewSonic XG2431 (IPS) strobing is reported to be clearer than the XL2546K DyAc (TN) strobing, according to a few users, Hz for Hz, as one example.

XL2546K versus XG2431: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/co ... rison_1425

And real user reports also report the same. The Blur Busters Approved 2.0 (a programme for improving strobe quality) did a lot of work making IPS strobing better than many TN panels, as an example.

I have tried to invite BenQ to participate in Blur Busters Approved 2.0 but, currently, they are not interested. Perhaps this will change in the future.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

Anonymous316387

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Anonymous316387 » 10 Aug 2022, 15:15

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 22:05
Anonymous316387 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 13:30
Hi, i know, fast-ips becoming better than before but actually, in terms of motion blur only ( not for response time ) TN are always the winner, you can check on Rtings Website that with some IPS the Rtings logo is always very blurry with bigger letter than on TN.
Check the XG2431 IPS review.

It's Blur Busters Approved BFI mode is clearer than many TN panels.
I don't have this screen in my country and i don't like the Strobing stuff.

Anonymous316387

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Anonymous316387 » 10 Aug 2022, 16:02

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 22:09
Boomchakadah wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 04:22
For motion clarity, yes.
Anonymous316387 wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 16:00
Thank you for the answer !
I think it too !
The TN and IPS venn diagram already overlaps now.

The problem is most users don't see thousands of monitors (like I do) and is unable to cherrypick.

If you randomly choose 3 TN panels and choose 3 IPS panels, you may not see my experience.
That's where users make the wrong assumption.

There are clearly now IPS monitors that has less motion blur than TN monitors.

But sometimes people don't go apples-vs-apples (e.g. you get a 360Hz IPS and try to compare against a 240Hz TN) because the refeshtime:gtgtime ratios are wildly different, and it's possible to see more ghosting on 360Hz IPS than a 240Hz TN. But guess what? A good 240Hz IPS ghosts more symmetrically than a 360Hz IPS, since the leadGtG:trailingGtG asymmetry is worse with some IPS panels (for example GtG time of grey->white may be slower than white->grey ... creating asymmetric ghosting effects that look worse for some people). Even though 360Hz can have clearer motion, the motion blur may not be as symmetric as a 240Hz IPS or 240Hz TN. They are still working on improving those.

Also quality may be different for:
- Fixed Hz
- VRR
- Strobed

This is where, sometimes IPS<->TN can swap sides, for certain settings. The ViewSonic XG2431 (IPS) strobing is reported to be clearer than the XL2546K DyAc (TN) strobing, according to a few users, Hz for Hz, as one example.

XL2546K versus XG2431: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/co ... rison_1425

And real user reports also report the same. The Blur Busters Approved 2.0 (a programme for improving strobe quality) did a lot of work making IPS strobing better than many TN panels, as an example.

I have tried to invite BenQ to participate in Blur Busters Approved 2.0 but, currently, they are not interested. Perhaps this will change in the future.
Thanks for the huge comment but unefortunately i don't like strobing stuff it's cause me headache and i don't care about this technology ( sorry )

Here i'm talking about just ghosting performance without DyAc/ELMB stuff.

I test some monitors per month too, don't worry, and i can say that IPS in 99% of the case are not better than TN in terms of motion blur clarity, i'm not talking about input lag or response time but motion blur clarity, here i can show you that the best IPS in terms of motion blur, even at 360hz, are clearly not crisp than a random TN.

i will show you multiple example :

Here is a random 1440p HP OMEN 27 inch 240hz TN panel with OD at level 3 Image

it's better than all of the best IPS here :

Asus PG279QM 27 inch 1440P 240hz ( the best 1440p IPS for the moment apparrently ) Image

Asus VG279QM 27 inch 1080p 240hz Image

Acer Nitro XV252Q 25 inch 1080p 390hz Image

and YES ! i found that very blurry ! it's not that bad when we see these images but in practice it's worst.

and i can take ALL IPS of the website, you clearly see that IPS have always a larger text on the logo, because in reality the "RTINGS" logo on their moving picture test are thin, generally, all TN always have a thinner text, so the ghosting and the persistence of the image are bigger on IPS ( and also VA, but i don't care about VA technology )

and when you play at some FPS games like Apex Legends you can clearly see this tons of image persistence, yes some 360hz panel are not better than 240hz panel, i know that, it's just because IPS don't really like that for the moment but apparently, TN don't have any problem with that.



Yes ofc the Viewsonic are better but only with strobing...and not all people play with that, we don't all want strobing, i just wanted a monitor who perform clearer just simply with G-Sync/V-Sync compatible with just overdrive settings.

But in terms of Strobing for me it's counter productive because there is some crosstalk + no V-Sync at the same time in 90% of the case ( if we don't take an Asus monitor or something witch have ELMB-SYNC stuff ) but there is still some crosstalk at all frame with strobing stuff, ok, we can change the strobe settings in Blur Buster Utility but it's clearly not perfect ( i've tested myself ) and strobing + crosstalk cause me huge headache so i really don't like and i don't have the feeling that i see better than without finally.

But in terms of pure motion blur handling, TN are apparently still the king and by far, ok, IPS are CLEARLY better than some years but....it's clearly not perfect.

IPS have some other problem, in low budget below 400 bucks generally IPS that i've tested have very minimal brightness/poor contrast and "meh" colors ( mostly at high hertz ) and the motion blur handling are very bad.


And i'm not really agree with Also quality may be different for: - Fixed Hz - VRR

For example i have actually a MSI MAG274QRF-QD 1440P 165hz and even with VRR on/off, Fixed hertz or unlimited i don't have different performance in terms of motion blur handling, in fact the ghosting are the same, the only parameters that change the ghosting perception is strobing stuff ou the level of Overdrive settings, so i don't understand why with fixed Hz/VRR or not change something, it's not, the perception change for the micro-stutter/juddering etc but not for ghosting.

Anyway it's a shame that Rtings don't talk about what are you saying here or maybe i'm an idiot and i've not see ? (for example GtG time of grey->white may be slower than white->grey ... creating asymmetric ghosting effects that look worse for some people). Even though 360Hz can have clearer motion blur, the motion blur may not be as symmetric as a 240Hz IPS or 240Hz TN. They are still working on improving those.


In conclusion, if IPS are better than TN, which IPS model are better than TN without strobing ? i eagerly await your response, I would buy it immediately, except that... I'm afraid I have actually tested almost all the IPS 1080p/1440p 240hz and for the moment, none of them satisfy me for the moment...

if you know all this about ghosting, where is the table of screens that you would recommend? I don't understand (after all, I'm new here )
Last edited by Anonymous316387 on 11 Aug 2022, 12:59, edited 1 time in total.

1000WATT
Posts: 391
Joined: 22 Jul 2018, 05:44

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by 1000WATT » 10 Aug 2022, 18:29

Anonymous316387 wrote: i will show you multiple example :
Here is a random 1440p HP OMEN 27 inch 240hz TN panel with OD at level 3
1. HP OMEN X27, 240 Гц, TN
2. It cannot be a random panel. This panel is number 1 after oled (according to rtings*com)
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/mo ... ponse-time
Anonymous316387 wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 16:02
1000WATT wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 07:29
Anonymous316387 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 17:53
In any case I'm too sad to see that in terms of motion blur IPS still don't come close to TNs, in reality you'll laugh but when you take the Asus IPS 360hz VS an Asus 144hz TN I I have the impression that the TN is always less blurry, I don't know if it comes from the Rtings tests but that's what we see.
Please don't mislead people.
Sorry i have don't understand why you have say that.
But that's definitely not my goal.
Have a nice day.
IPS 360hz VS an Asus 144hz TN
Show at least 1 such comparison, picture to picture.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

Anonymous316387

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Anonymous316387 » 11 Aug 2022, 11:48

1000WATT wrote:
10 Aug 2022, 18:29
Anonymous316387 wrote: i will show you multiple example :
Here is a random 1440p HP OMEN 27 inch 240hz TN panel with OD at level 3
1. HP OMEN X27, 240 Гц, TN
2. It cannot be a random panel. This panel is number 1 after oled (according to rtings*com)
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/mo ... ponse-time
Anonymous316387 wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 16:02
1000WATT wrote:
28 Jul 2022, 07:29
Anonymous316387 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 17:53
In any case I'm too sad to see that in terms of motion blur IPS still don't come close to TNs, in reality you'll laugh but when you take the Asus IPS 360hz VS an Asus 144hz TN I I have the impression that the TN is always less blurry, I don't know if it comes from the Rtings tests but that's what we see.
Please don't mislead people.
Sorry i have don't understand why you have say that.
But that's definitely not my goal.
Have a nice day.
IPS 360hz VS an Asus 144hz TN
Show at least 1 such comparison, picture to picture.


Really ? i have take the first TN that i've see on Rtings, i can take another TN, the result it's the same for pure ghosting without strobing.


Ok, look at this example :

Asus PG279QM 1440P IPS 240hz ( one of the best IPS at the moment without strobing ) Image

And the Asus VG248QE 1080p TN 144hz
Image

You can clearly see that without strobing stuff, the Asus TN is slightly better than the other IPS in 240hz ( the text is thinner on the TN 144hz )

1000WATT
Posts: 391
Joined: 22 Jul 2018, 05:44

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by 1000WATT » 11 Aug 2022, 14:34

Anonymous316387 wrote: You can clearly see that without strobing stuff, the Asus TN is slightly better than the other IPS in 240hz ( the text is thinner on the TN 144hz )
Be patient, study this forum. And then you will know what details to pay attention to. When we compare test images.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

Anonymous316387

Re: Is TN always the king ?!

Post by Anonymous316387 » 11 Aug 2022, 15:19

1000WATT wrote:
11 Aug 2022, 14:34
Anonymous316387 wrote: You can clearly see that without strobing stuff, the Asus TN is slightly better than the other IPS in 240hz ( the text is thinner on the TN 144hz )
Be patient, study this forum. And then you will know what details to pay attention to. When we compare test images.
Sorry i don't understand what do you mean but i've nothing to study actually about comparing test images.

You just tell me "don't mislead people" ( a little rude in fact... ) so you wanted proof, you have the proof here like you wanted, TN still the king apparently in 2022 for pure motion blur handling without strobing, you can if you want also learn more about that on Rtings*com and on this forum, a huge thanks for the answer, have a nice day.

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