New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

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noxer
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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by noxer » 12 Sep 2022, 17:52

Ok so im new to this and i want to make a custom stretched resolution while using QFT if you can help me pls, monitor is XL2546.
i wanna make two custom resolutions, one is 1632:1080 with 182hz and 1632:1080 with 144hz, so far i haven't been able to get it to work while keeping pixel clock unchanged. when i choose manual cru changes pixel clock from 594.27 to 510, i read somewhere here that i shouldn't change pixelclock but maybe thats for native resolutions?

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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 12 Sep 2022, 18:20

noxer wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 17:52
Ok so im new to this and i want to make a custom stretched resolution while using QFT if you can help me pls, monitor is XL2546.
i wanna make two custom resolutions, one is 1632:1080 with 182hz and 1632:1080 with 144hz, so far i haven't been able to get it to work while keeping pixel clock unchanged. when i choose manual cru changes pixel clock from 594.27 to 510, i read somewhere here that i shouldn't change pixelclock but maybe thats for native resolutions?
Be careful with QFT+scaling -- very weird things can happen if the scaler doesn't handle the combo well. I mainly recommend QFT at native resolutions.

However...

It is normal for pixel clock to go down with lower (scaled) resolutions, that's because Pixel Clock = number of pixels per second.

(Pixel Clock) = (vertical total) x (horizontal total) x (Hz)

(Pixel Clock) = (verticals for resolution + sync + front porch + back porch) x (horizontals for resolution + sync + front porch + back porche) x (Hz)

594 pixel clock is only for native resolution (1920x1080). Reducing your resolution without editing other numbers, will reduce the pixel clock (number of pixels transmitted over the video cable per second). So leave it at 510.

If you want to keep 594.27 pixel clock, you will want to manually edit the Pixel Clock (go back to Manual), then go back to Vertical Total Calculator.

Don't forget to retune strobe phase in the BenQ version of Strobe Utility. You won't be able to retune your Overdrive Gain easily like you can on XG2431's, but adding QFT will often shift strobe phase relative to non-QFT, so readjusting strobe phase will be needed.

(P.S. ...hopefully ToastyX will rename it to mention QFT before it becomes a confusion cesspool...)
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noxer
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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by noxer » 12 Sep 2022, 20:27

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 18:20
noxer wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 17:52
Ok so im new to this and i want to make a custom stretched resolution while using QFT if you can help me pls, monitor is XL2546.
i wanna make two custom resolutions, one is 1632:1080 with 182hz and 1632:1080 with 144hz, so far i haven't been able to get it to work while keeping pixel clock unchanged. when i choose manual cru changes pixel clock from 594.27 to 510, i read somewhere here that i shouldn't change pixelclock but maybe thats for native resolutions?
Be careful with QFT+scaling -- very weird things can happen if the scaler doesn't handle the combo well. I mainly recommend QFT at native resolutions.

However...

It is normal for pixel clock to go down with lower (scaled) resolutions, that's because Pixel Clock = number of pixels per second.

(Pixel Clock) = (vertical total) x (horizontal total) x (Hz)

(Pixel Clock) = (verticals for resolution + sync + front porch + back porch) x (horizontals for resolution + sync + front porch + back porche) x (Hz)

594 pixel clock is only for native resolution (1920x1080). Reducing your resolution without editing other numbers, will reduce the pixel clock (number of pixels transmitted over the video cable per second). So leave it at 510.

If you want to keep 594.27 pixel clock, you will want to manually edit the Pixel Clock (go back to Manual), then go back to Vertical Total Calculator.

Don't forget to retune strobe phase in the BenQ version of Strobe Utility. You won't be able to retune your Overdrive Gain easily like you can on XG2431's, but adding QFT will often shift strobe phase relative to non-QFT, so readjusting strobe phase will be needed.

(P.S. ...hopefully ToastyX will rename it to mention QFT before it becomes a confusion cesspool...)
Thanks a lot! it makes sense now. Do you think there is any advantage of increasing pixel clock to 594 and adjust front/back porch, compared to leaving it at 510?

I play Apex Legends capped at 182 fps through RTSS, (when uncapped it fluctuates between 240 and 180fps), v sync off, I'm looking to shave off every 1ms I can, will it work in this scenario or do you think I should just leave it at stretched 240hz??

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to me.

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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 13 Sep 2022, 12:13

noxer wrote:
12 Sep 2022, 20:27
I play Apex Legends capped at 182 fps through RTSS, (when uncapped it fluctuates between 240 and 180fps), v sync off, I'm looking to shave off every 1ms I can, will it work in this scenario or do you think I should just leave it at stretched 240hz??
There's pros/cons.

Now, remember, latency is a complex chain.

Image

But for now, let's focus only on display latency:

There's many different kinds of latency problems on the display side.
- Absolute latency (aka tape-delay latency caused by display processing)
- Scanout latency (not all pixels refresh at the same time, time interval between first pixel thru last pixel refreshed)
- Variances in latency (jitter/stutter = variable latency = can throw off aiming), mainly caused by unoptimized sync technologies

Latency is about tradeoffs.

Now, strobing adds a minor amount of tape delay lag (to the tune of low single digit milliseconds for modern strobe implementations). But extra motion blur in fast panning can slow down human reaction time. If you can't see bleep during fast panning (if it's important to see things clearly in the middle of a scroll, like in RTS / APEX / DOTA2) -- then your reaction time can slow down, e.g. quick strategical thinking. So if strobing adds 1ms lag but your human reaction time speeds up 10ms, then you win.

Likewise, same for stutter/jitter. You'd rather have a perfect stutterfree absolute 10ms latency than a highly unexpectedly erratic random 5ms-10ms latency whose average latency is different from median latency. You aim, you miss, bad hitreg behaviors or bad mouse-pointer-aiming behaviors. Random latency in networking is a bleep, but random latency can occur in engines and flawed sync technology configuration settings. Especially if average and median diverges significantly, because if average latency and median latency is different, you will have aiming problems (even if it's quickly aiming a mouse arrow to select a character to attack in RTS games -- this doesn't apply to just FPS).

In your situation, you're wanting to use strobing. Strobing can amplify the visibility of stutter/jitter. So it's in your interests to try to make it framerate=Hz. So it's the right call to use RTSS Scanline Sync. It's somewhat of a marriage made in heaven (Strobing + RTSS Scanline Sync) because you've perfectly synchronizing global strobing with global sync technology, keeping latency erratic-free, even if you've added a very very minor amount of tape delay latency. QFT modes will reduce this tape delay latency.

So yes, you should convert your 182 Hz non-QFT mode to a QFT mode. You get the same picture, but with less lag (QFT doesn't always decrease crosstalk on 240Hz BenQs because they already buffer refresh cycles to scan-convert to fast scanout... but that doesn't solve faster delivery of frames over DisplayPort cable. So QFT usually only hits one bird with a stone for 240 Hz BenQs (reduced lag) unlike QFT hitting two birds with a stone (reduced crosstalk & lag).

To create a custom QFT 182 Hz mode, you need to derive from the 240 Hz mode and use Vertical Total Calculator on 240 Hz, and type "182" in the Hz. Now you've got your QFT 182 Hz mode to reduce strobe lag even more. Good move.

QFT + RTSS S-Sync + Strobing = should give you a competitive advantage if you like to pay attention to things mid-panning. If you tune properly (in Strobe Utility) your custom QFT+RTSS+DyAc 182 Hz mode will often beat the other players using 240 Hz VSYNC OFF, to the surprise of other players in this specific game. Little known esports secret, literally!

Please post your QFT 182 mode for your BenQ -- combined with respective Strobe Utility settings (There are 3 brands of monitors with Strobe Utility now at least for some models) -- others would love to see.
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noxer
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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by noxer » 14 Sep 2022, 17:14

Please post your QFT 182 mode for your BenQ -- combined with respective Strobe Utility settings (There are 3 brands of monitors with Strobe Utility now at least for some models) -- others would love to see.
Well explained! this is exactly what i needed to know, so thanks A LOT.

For the guys who want to try my res, my monitor is XL2546, and this is my CRU custom stretched res with QFT

Image

it makes the player models wider while improving fps, i also tried 1728x1080, 1680x1050, 1440x1080 (4:3), i think 1632X1080 is the best by far. (you'll need to put the res in playerconfig.txt before you launch the game, to remove black bars you need to set up an autoexec.cfg that has these 3 lines

+mat_letterbox_aspect_goal 1.6
+mat_letterbox_aspect_threshold 1.6
+building_cubemaps "1"

finally, for 1440x1080 and 1632x1080 you need to alt+enter twice when you in the first menu screen (where you choose servers) to get out of full screen and back, this will remove up and down black bars

In strobing utility, I have persistence at 20 and Crosstalk area at 7.
Last edited by RealNC on 14 Sep 2022, 20:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed image link.

noxer
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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by noxer » 15 Sep 2022, 13:39

Also, I was able to get a relatively better strobing utility result with this, might be a placebo Haha.

Image

crosstalk area at 65

Although I'm not sure if I should keep my horizontal total at 2000ish the same as 1920 resolution, or the 1700ish (that cru puts when i change the res to 1632). Both work and it doesn't seem to affect the vertical total that much, i was able to increase the vertical to 2120 with lowering refresh to 140hz. to get the stutterline under the screen i use -1100 scanline value

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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Sep 2022, 16:34

noxer wrote:
15 Sep 2022, 13:39
Although I'm not sure if I should keep my horizontal total at 2000ish the same as 1920 resolution, or the 1700ish (that cru puts when i change the res to 1632). Both work and it doesn't seem to affect the vertical total that much, i was able to increase the vertical to 2120 with lowering refresh to 140hz. to get the stutterline under the screen i use -1100 scanline value
For VTs of scaled resolution, you can go well above 2000. I'd say 2000ish times (1920/1632) if your vertical resolution is unchanged, and see what you got.

The more important number if Pixel Clock, don't exceed what you get at max-rez max-Hz.

QFT with scaled resolutions is hit-and-miss. However, the great news is ToastX always creates resolutions that are monitor-scaled. It will work best with monitor scaling instead of GPU scaling. (If you use GPU scaling, you need to QFT or VT the post-scaled resolution, not the pre-scaled resolution -- and there's currently no intuitive way to do this, yet. So QFT is only reliable via display scaling, if the display scaler can handle it.)

Also, there is no guarantee that the monitor might not decide to buffer the whole refresh cycle, rather than realtime-scanning-out, as it does for native resolution (XG2431 is a horizontal scanrate multisync panel, but not all panels are). But QFT will still help monitor-scaled resolutions even for monitors that automatically fully framebuffers in scaled mode, because it's a faster transmission of a refresh cycle frame from GPU to monitor's memory.
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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Sep 2022, 19:29

Easier DIY QFT has created a recent surge of compliments of XG2431 being compared to CRT.

I wish manufacturers would enable QFT + Strobe tuning more often with their LCDs, but at least doing this DIY is getting easier.

I am going to soon update the old FAQ at www.blurbusters.com/xg2431 to mention the new ToastyX QFT feature. ToastyX tells me that ToastyX 2.0 will have an API (eventually), which could be useful for Strobe Utility to automatically create QFT modes, as a replacement for lack of standardized QFT EDIDs -- there is no public industry standard for QFT EDIDs.
xaerock wrote:
18 Sep 2022, 13:31
Imported one of these to Finland last week. Arrived with no issues. Very happy with the purchase so far and definitely replacing my old XL2411.

60hz with QFT and custom strobing with Scanline/Latent Sync looks superb. As there is no crosstalk and basically no blur I'd say the XG2431 is better than a CRT for games locked to 60hz and reasonably scalable to 1080p. I guess OLEDs are the only competition.
jcdenton1993 wrote:
25 Sep 2022, 15:42
But anyways, for what its aiming to do, that being motion blur reduction, the XG2431 is an absolute beast. Mine arrived earlier today and it feels like a CRT with the right settings.
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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by Squeakychu » 04 Nov 2022, 18:24

I'm currently trying to enable QFT for my EVE Spectrum at 60hz. However, I can't seem to be able to do it via the Verical Total Calculator in CRU, since the monitor only has a detailed resolution of 60hz, even when I'm running it at 120hz/144hz. When trying to add a custom resolution using the highest refresh rate, I get this issue showing red and not letting me save the resolution. Is there something different that I need to do to get QFT working? Thanks.

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Re: New ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator for Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Nov 2022, 19:37

Squeakychu wrote:
04 Nov 2022, 18:24
I'm currently trying to enable QFT for my EVE Spectrum at 60hz. However, I can't seem to be able to do it via the Verical Total Calculator in CRU, since the monitor only has a detailed resolution of 60hz, even when I'm running it at 120hz/144hz. When trying to add a custom resolution using the highest refresh rate, I get this issue showing red and not letting me save the resolution. Is there something different that I need to do to get QFT working? Thanks.
QFT must always be based on an existing working refresh rate, you may have to edit from a different screen (standard slots rather than the Detailed Slots).

Load the highest Hz resolution from the other slot (non-detailed) -- and derive from that.

If no spare slots, copy the numbers exactly to the Detailed Resolution (number by number) under Manual mode. Then switch to Vertical Total Calculator and create the lower-Hz QFT mode.

Your monitor should already include a 144 Hz EDID in one of those screens.
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