Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

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jorimt
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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by jorimt » 26 Sep 2022, 08:11

Exoriya wrote:
26 Sep 2022, 00:07
I have g-sync set to Fullscreen only. Did not touch any Nvidia Profile Inspector settings, and when walking around with it dark, you can clearly see as well eye-straining the pixels or light pulsing in the dark areas.
That is a separate issue exclusive to current-gen OLED; flicker is evident in near-black whenever frametime performance is sporadic enough with G-SYNC, whether it's in borderless or fullscreen.

The only "fix" is to stabilize frametime performance with an external FPS limit and/or lower graphical settings to achieve a more consistent framerate.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

Exoriya
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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by Exoriya » 27 Sep 2022, 02:55

@jorimt

Unfortunately.. Even with stabilized framerate it still happens in certain areas. Such as, sometimes when I am playing Civ with a friend some menu's would exhibit the flicker. Even by having max fps. Another example would be perhaps Dead by Daylight / Phasmophobia.

Both would run at 120fps + and still exhibit some flicker.

So is this truly a OLED issue? cause if so, I might just return the monitor and use my old monitor which is the LG 34GP950-b.

Mostly because, if this is something particular to OLED, maybe it's not for me. My eyes hurt XD

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jorimt
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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by jorimt » 27 Sep 2022, 08:30

Exoriya wrote:
27 Sep 2022, 02:55
Is the flicker in the near-black shades, or the lighter shades as well?

Example of OLED VRR Flicker:
phpBB [video]


It happens on every VRR-capable OLED display I know of, and is a limitation of current-gen OLED, and again, is only mitigated (not always fully eliminated) by steady frametime performance (I.E. RTSS limit with framerate reaching it at all times).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

Exoriya
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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by Exoriya » 27 Sep 2022, 10:19

@jorimt

Thanks for replying. In the video, that is the sort of flicker I am referring too. It’s annoying to me I have to experience that.

Also, to your question. The flicker is indeed in the darker grey areas, but more wider than my oled tv. When I ran the test on my oled tv, it was much smaller to see. But for my monitor it was more apparent and wider.

If this is indeed a oled thing, ima just return it and use the LG monitor. Only reason I switched out was due to my LG having a dead pixel, but I got a email from LG that it will be here on the 30th. So time to return the OLED monitor. I’ll miss it, but maybe future generation will fix the issue and might have better specs in the long run or something.

I know it’s not much of an issue, with maybe AAA games. Harder to experience it. But just having to experience it isn’t what I like. Seems I’m pretty sensitive to it and it hurts my eyes lol.

Also, to note. I was going to receive a replacement for the Alienware regardless, but decided to cancel because of the flicker. The reason for that was a weird one, it randomly developed a weird pixel experience. When turning off/on my pc or monitor, or running the oled pixel refresh. One pixel will turn bright red during part of it. Then goes away. No idea what was going on there.

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jorimt
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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by jorimt » 27 Sep 2022, 11:57

Exoriya wrote:
27 Sep 2022, 10:19
If this is indeed a oled thing, ima just return it and use the LG monitor.
That particular form of VRR flicker is indeed currently exclusive to OLED, and as far as is known, is predominately caused by (at least for LG OLED panels, though QD OLED exhibits similar) the factory gamma curve being tuned only for the max refresh rate of the display, so when VRR adjusts the refresh rate in real-time, it deviates from the fixed curve, causing visible flicker.

Again, the only "fix" right now is to keep the average frametime/framerate of the game virtually constant and locked with external limiting methods such as RTSS.

144hz+ IPS displays, be they FreeSync G-SYNC Compatible certified or native G-SYNC w/hardware module, have the best chance of avoiding VRR flicker within normal working range, so seeing as your standby LG 34GP950G is already an IPS-type LCD with G-SYNC Ultimate (containing a hardware module), you're covered, and as you've already observed, it should not flicker in VRR mode like the OLED does.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by Exoriya » 27 Sep 2022, 18:18

jorimt wrote:
27 Sep 2022, 11:57
Exoriya wrote:
27 Sep 2022, 10:19
If this is indeed a oled thing, ima just return it and use the LG monitor.
That particular form of VRR flicker is indeed currently exclusive to OLED, and as far as is known, is predominately caused by (at least for LG OLED panels, though QD OLED exhibits similar) the factory gamma curve being tuned only for the max refresh rate of the display, so when VRR adjusts the refresh rate in real-time, it deviates from the fixed curve, causing visible flicker.

Again, the only "fix" right now is to keep the average frametime/framerate of the game virtually constant and locked with external limiting methods such as RTSS.

144hz+ IPS displays, be they FreeSync G-SYNC Compatible certified or native G-SYNC w/hardware module, have the best chance of avoiding VRR flicker within normal working range, so seeing as your standby LG 34GP950G is already an IPS-type LCD with G-SYNC Ultimate (containing a hardware module), you're covered, and as you've already observed, it should not flicker in VRR mode like the OLED does.
Thanks again for replying. Yeah, I had not noticed it when I used my LG 34GP950-B. However, I was hardly using g-sync at the time too. But seeing how you're saying I'm set and good to go with the LG, i'll definitely just stick with it till they fine-tune OLED a bit more.

What I really liked about it was how good it looked in HDR, and the blacks. Going into a loading screen you just see a pure black screen. It was new and refreshing lol. Looked good too when your in a cutscene and there are black areas and you can see how good it looks.

I hope in the future, they fix OLED monitors to help reduce the flicker by a significant amount or altogether. I would definitely go back with OLED if they do.

I only had purchased the OLED because i heard it was good, and my LG was sent in for repairs and I was worried they wouldn't fix it. So I just bit the bullet and purchased it. Nothing wrong with having 2 if they did end up fixing it. However, unfortunately the flicker made me end up returning it. :(

Do you think they will fix the OLED or they might release some other top-notch panel in the future? I hope so. lol. Also, what is RTSS? I would try using it and see if it removes the flicker but no idea what it is.

Again, thanks for all the help. Ultimately in the end OLED's just still need a bit more time to be tuned. At least, in my case and how sensitive I am to the flicker.

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jorimt
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Re: Is this a G-Sync Issue or Monitor ?

Post by jorimt » 27 Sep 2022, 21:24

Exoriya wrote:
27 Sep 2022, 18:18
Do you think they will fix the OLED or they might release some other top-notch panel in the future? I hope so. lol.
Seeing as both LG and Samsung haven't addressed VRR flicker in their panel manufacturing across what have been several TV/monitor releases now, unknown. It's a hardware-level issue and may require a bigger fix than they are willing to R&D right now.

OLED is the "latest-and-greatest" monitor technology. Nothing can currently beat its contrast ratio performance in SDR or HDR, or its motion performance where non-strobed "GtG" is concerned.

If you don't buy OLED and fall back to LCD, you'll be in for a long wait for anything better than either of those panel types in the mainstream monitor-market.
Exoriya wrote:
27 Sep 2022, 18:18
Also, what is RTSS? I would try using it and see if it removes the flicker but no idea what it is.
It's a framerate limiter/readout (and more) available standalone or bundled with Afterburner. See:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/12/

Unlike most in-game limiters, it sets a fixed frametime target, which steadies overall frametime performance if you set it at a limit that the system can sustain an average framerate at the majority of the time in the given game.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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