All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

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jorimt
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by jorimt » 11 Feb 2023, 16:36

lizardpeter wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 16:18
Don't even waste your time with GSYNC with monitors at or above 360 Hz. All you will be doing is adding slight latency.
Correction: *All you will be doing is preventing tearing.

Though I agree the higher the refresh rate, the less useful G-SYNC is (starting around 360Hz, up, for sure). G-SYNC is merely a stopgap to 1000Hz+ refresh rates, where all syncing methods will be virtually unnecessary.
lizardpeter wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 16:18
That's what I do and have absolutely no stuttering across any game, ever.
While you're fully entitled to your opinion, and I have no interest in arguing this point further, that statement is misleading, at best.

At least you have no complaints with your configuration :lol:
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
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MST
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by MST » 12 Feb 2023, 15:49

Now that I've followed this thread for some time and thinking back on the past, I used to have problems like OP as well. But I never considered it a "stuttering issue". I always called it "fps drop" or just "game slow down".
That was back in the day of my 60hz monitor. And if you think about it, if you can't do 60 fps, the game is rather unplayable anyway due to the sluggishness and blur. Also back in those days, I was usually hitting the GPU cap. Very rarely CPU cap and I do remember some games stuttering when the CPU was the cap.
So I would always try to make sure that the game never drops down below 60 fps, and vsync on to prevent tearing, as it's basically like stuttering.

I upgraded my pc to make sure I can run any game at minimum 60 fps, and the ones I couldn't I would just reduce some of the settings.

So then I was free of stutters but... I started remembering the old days of crt, when everything was so crisp... why is everything so blurry now.
So I started investingating and found this awesome site. I never got into high refresh rate monitors, because I discovered blur busters first. I almost went for a 75hz monitor at some point before finding blur busters, but it didn't seem like there was too much of a difference in terms of blur.

Then I bought bought XL2411p and used it for about 2.5 years. Used it with the motion blur reduction function on 85hz. So again I made sure any game I played would never drop below 85hz and it was a blast, but still had some crosstalk at the bottom of the screen (which is not that bad as UIs usually live there), and also quite bad colors and brightess.

So last week I bought xg2431. Very happy with it. Using it just like the XL2411p except it has 0 crosstalk, beautiful colors and good brightness. Agains making sure every game runs with at least 85 fps. And have no stutters.

@OP I really think your stutters are cause either by screen tearing due to incorrect Gsync/vsync settings/compatibility, or frame drops due to CPU.
OR, something else is failing hardware of software wise.
Update and load optimal defaults in your bios.
Reinstall windows clean.
Test a single player game that you can comfotably run at around 200 fps without vsync. Rotate your camera or move the screen around to see that it never drops below lets say 120 fps. Then enable vsync. You should no longer see any stutters. (also do factory reset on your monitor).
If in the conditions above you no longer see stutters then your compuer is running just like the rest of us for those conditions.

Now further, you can start investigating on how to get the gsync to work properly, read some troubleshooting/guides for gsync/vvr in general. It might just be that your monitor's gsync is not that good. Or maybe the cable, or the game, or driver, etc. I personally don't have experience with VRR so I can't help you there.

TLDR: For a quick fix, just make sure your game fps never drops below the vsync value. Be that by reducing settings, or upgrading hardware.
For more than that read the rest of what I said and look for more guides on setting up VRR.

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jorimt
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by jorimt » 12 Feb 2023, 21:17

MST wrote:
12 Feb 2023, 15:49
Now that I've followed this thread for some time and thinking back on the past, I used to have problems like OP as well. But I never considered it a "stuttering issue". I always called it "fps drop" or just "game slow down".
I think we may have been overlooking the obvious; the OP is using a 3700x CPU at 4k 144Hz, and is predominately reporting issues in CPU-limited games.

I.E. while the 3700x should do okay in GPU-limited games at 4k, for games like Dota that run on an older version of the Source 2 engine, which is heavily CPU-limited and single-core speed-dependent (and thus barely relies on the GPU), the 3700x may be able to sustain 144 FPS+ at 4k, but it can't maintain stable frametime performance at the same time, causing stutter.

This tracks with what the OP said about it being better at 60 FPS, and how they didn't have as many issues in what I assume are all GPU-limited games. In other words, the 3700x is more suited to run CPU-limited games like Dota at around 1080p 60 FPS, not 4k 144+ FPS.

As for me not experience the same issues in Dota under a similar scenario, it's likely because my 12900k is 50%+ faster in single-core peformance and up to 70% faster in multi-core performance vs. the 3700x.

Basically, the OP isn't suffering from faulty hardware, but from playing an already aged and poorly performing CPU-limited game in a particularly demanding scenario (4k 144+ FPS) their CPU can't keep up with.

Probably as simple as that.
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matkinson
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by matkinson » 13 Feb 2023, 14:22

I can play other games at higher CPU usage, even forcing a CPU bottleneck by lowering settings, still don't get it in certain games.

It really just feels like Gsync doesn't work on specific games and there's not much I can about it.

Could just be as simple as my monitor saying it isn't verified Gsync compatible under the Gsync tab in NVCP? Have noticed all my previous high refresh rates monitors have had this message as well. Who knows, grasping at straws.

What was odd was I tried the RTSS fps cap again in Dota at 120fps, seemed to work briefly, then next game, although being locked at 120fps still, it just returned to juddering. Weird.

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jorimt
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by jorimt » 13 Feb 2023, 14:46

matkinson wrote:
13 Feb 2023, 14:22
I can play other games at higher CPU usage, even forcing a CPU bottleneck by lowering settings, still don't get it in certain games.
There are games that are CPU-limited, and then there are games that are single-core CPU limited. The latter can always be an issue, even on high-end CPUs. Said issue typically results in a maximum achievable CPU-limited framerate (not usually stutter) and low GPU usage, regardless of how new or how many cores a CPU has.
matkinson wrote:
13 Feb 2023, 14:22
It really just feels like Gsync doesn't work on specific games and there's not much I can about it.
Again, if it's also happening without G-SYNC (with standalone V-SYNC or no sync), it's not G-SYNC causing the issue.

G-SYNC can't cause or fix system-side stutter.
matkinson wrote:
13 Feb 2023, 14:22
Could just be as simple as my monitor saying it isn't verified Gsync compatible under the Gsync tab in NVCP? Have noticed all my previous high refresh rates monitors have had this message as well. Who knows, grasping at straws.
If G-SYNC is enabled and the monitor's refresh rate meter is fluctuating, G-SYNC is engaged.

Whether an officially G-SYNC Compatible FreeSync or a native G-SYNC monitor would have any effect on your issue, and all your monitors up to this point were incompatible enough with G-SYNC operation to conveniently cause or contribute to said issue (unlikely) is up in the air.

You'd have to buy an official G-SYNC Compatible or native G-SYNC monitor to rule it out for certain.
matkinson wrote:
13 Feb 2023, 14:22
What was odd was I tried the RTSS fps cap again in Dota at 120fps, seemed to work briefly, then next game, although being locked at 120fps still, it just returned to juddering. Weird.
*Shrugs* dunno. Based solely on your info, I've personally run out of remote-only troubleshooting ideas.

If you have the funds, and are desperate enough, you can try an Intel CPU/motherboard build. Intel historically has better CPU frametime performance in most (but not all) cases.

No guarantee the architecture switch will remedy the particular stutter you are experiencing though.
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Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Tiberiusmoon
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by Tiberiusmoon » 19 Feb 2023, 06:26

Im rather new to the forums but I have some knowledge outside of assigning video settings that may help.

First I wanna show my understanding of the video settings for a bit of context: (yes I read the G-sync and various other monitor guides)
I like to view settings as a cascade from program/game to driver/GPU then to Monitor.
So you can sync the game output to a set amount in the game's frame limiter or framecap software.
Then changing the GPU settings you can use Vsync for frames that are to high or G-sync to smooth out frames that are to low.
Then obviously you have the Monitor settings for framerate and other settings.

Now, beyond these settings you have the physical hardware settings like MSI afterburner and BIOS settings.
Additionally thermals will affect framerate consistency because the GPU or CPU will downclock to compensate BUT,
Have you considered that boost clocks/powersavings would also be the blame for inconsistant frames?

To check/sort out your CPU you need to disable clock boost and power saving functions.
I don't know the exact setting name as motherboards can differ especially between intel and AMD.
Your looking for a setting called C-state, Global C-state, AMD CBS, Core Performance Boost, Power Supply Idle Control etc.
This is usually found in the advanced section of the BIOS. (Some BIOS's have a Ez menu, be sure to disable this to see all settings)
If your unsure which setting to change, send screenshots here and I can navigate you.

For GPU you can follow this guide to underclocking your GPU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh1QsSCt4Xk
The reason why is because the default GPU clock will dynamically adjust to your voltage and frequency depending on your temperature,
But regardless of temperature the frequency will keep fluctuating which in turn fluctuates game FPS.
Also disable power save functions in windows.

Observations of DOTA:
I don't play the game but from checking out some gameplay the stutter maybe a case of the game is loaded in that view then when you move to a different part of the map it tries to load more things which can cause FPS dips/stutters.
So if you had say a power save setting enabled for your CPU for example, the view you loaded into has completed, the load is reduced and then the C-state or power save kicks in, then when you move to a different view it suddenly asks the CPU to load the game agains while its in the lower power C-state causing the stutter.

There could also be a case of poor CPU resource management while playing the game but given Ryzen CPUs have a bunch of cores, I dont think that would be the case.

But yeah,
-Remove the boost clocking functions of your GPU and CPU to stabalise framerate.
-Disable C-state power save functions in the BIOS of your CPU to prevent stutters.

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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 19 Feb 2023, 18:13

Yes, thermal-throttling stutter can be fixed via underclocking if it's too hard to fix by improved cooling.

Even current CPUs/GPUs sometimes thermally throttle even at factory temperatures and clock settings, under some duress conditions -- especially if playing in a very warm room (next to heater, or during summer, etc).

Assuming your specific stutter problem is thermal-throttle related, of course. But it isn't always -- you can at least try and find out. Force everything to performance mode and do a slight underclock to see what happens.
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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by jorimt » 19 Feb 2023, 19:20

Tiberiusmoon wrote:
19 Feb 2023, 06:26
The OP has already verbally ruled out the below thus far:

1. Monitors: 3 FreeSync (non-certified) G-SYNC Compatible monitors (current Acer XV282 4k 144hz) with both HDMI and DP.
2. CPUs: 3600, 5800x, and 3700x (current).
3. Motherboards: tried a B550 and B450 (current) with all BIOS version.
4. GPUs: RTX 2070 and 4070 Ti (current). Tried clean install via DDU.
5. SSDs/HDDs: 3 different SSD and 2 different HDD models.
6. DRAM: 2x 8GB 3600Mhz and 2x 8GB 3000Mhz, and in every slot.
7. Thermals: CPU 60-70c, GPU 55c range.
8. Monitor/OS/Game settings: stutter remains with all combos of strobing, no strobing, G-SYNC, V-SYNC, FastSync, no-sync, any combo of in-game settings (including different APIs and fullscreen/windowed), and any resolutions be they custom or native.

The OP has also tried different plugs in the house, a different location entirely, a controller instead of KB+M, etc.

All that's certain is the stutter occurs mostly in games like Dota, but apparently not ALL games. And 60fps/60hz is reportedly smoother than 144hz in some scenarios. They have provided many frametime graphs, and those that aren't sawtoothed appear to be within the norm where frametime spike severity and occurrence is concerned.

Whether removal of C-states/dynamic power functions for the CPU and/or GPU would help, while possible, is unlikely. I already recommended the OP use "Prefer maximum performance" to prevent the GPU from downclocking in CPU-limited games, and they reported that didn't help either.

AMD has recently had an fTMP issue at the BIOS-level that has caused stutter, but said stutter seems to be too severe and intermittent to match OP's descriptions:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-i ... ing-issues

Again, the OP has ruled out too many factors at this point for anyone to effectively assist and help diagnose remotely.
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Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by bilalirfanpk » 11 Mar 2023, 20:04

I have exactly the same issue but with Dota 2 only. My monitor is 165hz and even if I drop couple of frames below it, I feel tearing and micro stutters. Hard to wrap my head around it and been trying to find a fix for 2 nights now. VRR doesn't seem to match the fps but reaching 165hz despite fps hovering around 120-130.

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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by matkinson » 19 Mar 2023, 19:28

bilalirfanpk wrote:
11 Mar 2023, 20:04
I have exactly the same issue but with Dota 2 only. My monitor is 165hz and even if I drop couple of frames below it, I feel tearing and micro stutters. Hard to wrap my head around it and been trying to find a fix for 2 nights now. VRR doesn't seem to match the fps but reaching 165hz despite fps hovering around 120-130.
Yeah, I've had a couple of people message me saying the same thing about Dota, still no new info from my side though unfortunately.

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