All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

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MST
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Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 04:35

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by MST » 07 Feb 2023, 17:14

MBR = motion blur reduction NOT variable refresh rate. For it to be good you need to make sure you don't have crosstalk on the refresh rate you are using and that your FPS = Refresh rate all the time, while also having Vsync on.
Test for crosstalk: https://www.testufo.com/crosstalk
It might be stuttery if you have an AMD card and use Chrome or Edge. It should work ok in Firefox.
If you don't see double image then you don't have crosstalk.

But anyway, the best way to fix your issue is to start from a good baseline:
Disable MBR.
Disable variable refresh rate. (from monitor and OS)
Disable any frame limiting from your software (OS and game).
Leave the driver's Vsync option on "decided by application" or whatever it's called.
Enable Vsync in the game.
See if the issue still occurs.
If still occurs, try a lower refresh rate, like 144hz for example.

Come back with results.

Edit: Also check what API you are running Dota in. I think you can set it to dx11, try that.

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Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 07 Feb 2023, 18:26

jorimt wrote:
07 Feb 2023, 10:40
Your capped scenario looks within norm, your uncapped scenario does not. It's like a sawtooth pattern.
Sawtooth patterns are common when framerates are close to Hz but not quite matching, or if there's multiple monitors (144Hz can be 143.9Hz on one and 144.1Hz on the other), or if you're using borderless windowed (I believe, without the gaming optimizations). You want to avoid that as much as possible.

There can be multiple causes of sawtoothing, which produces annoying cyclic stutters. A Windows reinstall + single-monitor-only connected (Try a different GPU port) can help, as does a full driver uninstallation.
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matkinson
Posts: 22
Joined: 07 Feb 2023, 08:47

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by matkinson » 08 Feb 2023, 07:19

MST wrote:
07 Feb 2023, 17:14
MBR = motion blur reduction NOT variable refresh rate. For it to be good you need to make sure you don't have crosstalk on the refresh rate you are using and that your FPS = Refresh rate all the time, while also having Vsync on.
Test for crosstalk: https://www.testufo.com/crosstalk
It might be stuttery if you have an AMD card and use Chrome or Edge. It should work ok in Firefox.
If you don't see double image then you don't have crosstalk.

But anyway, the best way to fix your issue is to start from a good baseline:
Disable MBR.
Disable variable refresh rate. (from monitor and OS)
Disable any frame limiting from your software (OS and game).
Leave the driver's Vsync option on "decided by application" or whatever it's called.
Enable Vsync in the game.
See if the issue still occurs.
If still occurs, try a lower refresh rate, like 144hz for example.

Come back with results.

Edit: Also check what API you are running Dota in. I think you can set it to dx11, try that.
VRB on my monitor stands for 'Visual Response Boost', which is the equivalent to ULMB I believe. It locks me out of VRR (Freesync Premium/Gsync) and locks my brightness when enabled. It's a 4k 144hz monitor. :)

The crosstalk test worked fine, no issues on the default speed 960 and 2560. Tried it using both of the VRB settings on my monitor (normal & extreme) and it definitely looked clearer, although very bright, and noticeable 'overshoot' I believe it's called, but smooth for sure.

Disabled: Freesync on the Monitor, Gsync in NVCP, Vsync in NVCP, and turned on Vsync in game. It does the same thing unfortunately.

Using the different in-game APIs made no difference.

I've noticed if I set my monitor to 60hz with Vsync, it runs okay (when it's at 60fps), but if I enable Nvidia Reflex (taking it to 58 fps locked), it has the same stutter. It seems anything outside of locked Vsync, it stutters.

Looking back at the CapFrameX graph, it notice when it's locked to 138fps (nvidia reflex) the p95 bar is 295 fps, which means it's going way above the gsync/vsync range? causing the problems? Correct me if I'm wrong, and unsure why it would do this.

matkinson
Posts: 22
Joined: 07 Feb 2023, 08:47

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by matkinson » 08 Feb 2023, 07:28

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
07 Feb 2023, 18:26
jorimt wrote:
07 Feb 2023, 10:40
Your capped scenario looks within norm, your uncapped scenario does not. It's like a sawtooth pattern.
Sawtooth patterns are common when framerates are close to Hz, or if there's multiple monitors (144Hz can be 143.9Hz on one and 144.1Hz on the other), or if you're using borderless windowed (I believe, without the gaming optimizations). You want to avoid that as much as possible.

There can be multiple causes of sawtoothing, which produces annoying cyclic stutters. A Windows reinstall + single-monitor-only connected (Try a different GPU port) can help, as does a full driver uninstallation.
I only use 1 monitor, I've tried a few different display port cables as well as an HDMI cable too. (on 2 different GPUs)

I make sure my game is in Exclusive Fullscreen, it's the same in Borderless Windowed for me in this case. I've tried disabling full screen optimisations, and trying a full screen launch command in steam.

I have thought about doing another Windows fresh install (have tried previously though), or maybe even Linux to completely rule it out.

MST
Posts: 25
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 04:35

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by MST » 08 Feb 2023, 12:19

You Tested VRB normal and extreme, but did you try it OFF?
What I'm trying to find out if your issue is caused by the MBR technology or not.

Of course, without it enabled you'll see a lot of blur, but you shouldn't see any more stutter. Lets get rid of the stutter first and then see how we can set up the MBR so that it doesn't stutter. How's that?

matkinson
Posts: 22
Joined: 07 Feb 2023, 08:47

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by matkinson » 08 Feb 2023, 12:47

MST wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 12:19
You Tested VRB normal and extreme, but did you try it OFF?
What I'm trying to find out if your issue is caused by the MBR technology or not.

Of course, without it enabled you'll see a lot of blur, but you shouldn't see any more stutter. Lets get rid of the stutter first and then see how we can set up the MBR so that it doesn't stutter. How's that?
I never use the MBR function, I'm not too bothered about using that, just want my games to stop stuttering.

I've uploaded another Youtube Video, which shows that it's simply not syncing?

phpBB [video]


I've capped the game to 90fps, however it shows that it's all over the place according to my Monitor's on screen refresh rate counter.
I've tested this with other games as well, and it weirdly DOESN'T do this, but still have a similar feel. But one step at a time...

MST
Posts: 25
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 04:35

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by MST » 08 Feb 2023, 13:02

Ok o your don't have the VRB turned on, so we can exclude that.
You said earlier that you disabled the VRR everywhere, enabled vsync, and still have the issue, which surprises me.
What I don't like in your case is your frame rate cap. Don't use that along with vsync.
Also, I don't think you mentioned what your vsync setting is in the driver. Leave that on "application controlled". And to be safest, just clean up your driver with DDU and re-install the latest version.
Without VRR, without MBR (VRB), and without framecap you shouldn't have any stuttering. You would still have screen tearing which can be perceived as stuttering in some cases, but that should be fixable by simply enabling vsync in game.
Did you say at some point you are using a custom resolution or am I misremembering? That could also be something. If not just ignore this line.

matkinson
Posts: 22
Joined: 07 Feb 2023, 08:47

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by matkinson » 08 Feb 2023, 13:36

MST wrote:
08 Feb 2023, 13:02
Ok o your don't have the VRB turned on, so we can exclude that.
You said earlier that you disabled the VRR everywhere, enabled vsync, and still have the issue, which surprises me.
What I don't like in your case is your frame rate cap. Don't use that along with vsync.
Also, I don't think you mentioned what your vsync setting is in the driver. Leave that on "application controlled". And to be safest, just clean up your driver with DDU and re-install the latest version.
Without VRR, without MBR (VRB), and without framecap you shouldn't have any stuttering. You would still have screen tearing which can be perceived as stuttering in some cases, but that should be fixable by simply enabling vsync in game.
Did you say at some point you are using a custom resolution or am I misremembering? That could also be something. If not just ignore this line.
So with nothing turned on at all; no MBR, no VRR, NVCP Vsync option to set to 'Use the 3d Application Setting', with only Vsync enabled in game, it's still exactly the same, smooth when at the Vsync cap (e.g. 144fps, also tried 120hz and 60hz, they all work the same way) but if it drops even a few fps, it starts stuttering.

Here is a Youtube video I just uploaded of Valheim doing the same thing:

phpBB [video]


This is with nothing but VSync enabled in game. No Gsync, no VRR, no MBR, default NVCP settings etc.

Used DDU many times in Safe Mode, unfortunately no difference.

I don't use custom res, only 4k native.

MST
Posts: 25
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 04:35

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by MST » 08 Feb 2023, 14:15

Man that's weird, it really looks like it's the motion blur reduction to me. It's the only one that does that when your fps drops below refresh rate. Let me look up your monitor...

MST
Posts: 25
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 04:35

Re: All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

Post by MST » 08 Feb 2023, 14:24

Are all of these off?

Image

Also, to get back to what you've shown me thus far. I'll ignore the dota video since there you have a frame limiter on, which seems to get overshot by something periodically according to your display OSD, which is not good.
On the Valheim video, there's no fps counter.
Also, how does it work without any vsync or vrr?

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