All games stutter below 144fps lock. Will pay for a solution.

[Discorz]

If refresh rate is not synchronized with frame rate 100% of the time you will see micro stutter and tearing. Is VRR (variable refresh rate) enabled? Try enabling it and cap your frame rate to few frames bellow monitors refresh rate, maybe 138 fps. Additionally you can try enabling vsync or reflex. If problem still persists than maybe VRR is not calculating VBI correctly, but I doubt it.

If game's frame pacing sucks than that is a game issue.

Try Smooth Frog for VRR testing. It's like a .exe version of TestUFO, but it works with VRR. Enable VRR, enable vsync and cap framerate bellow refresh rate. And play around with other setting combination. Let me know how it works.

[matkinson]

BTW the last video you posted of Dota, that's clearly screen tearing, which is caused by improper vsync.
As for your second test... I indeed have seen this in the past, where vsync would cap your fps to half the refresh rate when you can't keep the fps equal to refresh rate. Not sure what causes that but for me it's rare.
Can you try 100 refresh rate with vsync? or 85? (custom resolution)
It's hard without seeing with my own eyes as someone earlier also said.

Can you also show all driver settings from nvidia control panel? Make sure to disable any "low latency" feature as those might cause stuttering when cpu can't keep up.
If you want we can make a discord call over the weekend and despite not seeing with my own eyed I might find something setting/software related.

Hi,

I created a new custom resolution: 4k@100hz.

Here are my msi afterburner benchmark results:



Top results are Vsync at 100hz, feels smooth as it should. The 1% lows are barely different from the average.
Bottom results are me setting an in-game fps cap at 95fps, which immediately makes it feel stuttery, as reflected in the 1% and 0.1% lows in comparison. This is without me even moving the camera or doing anything at all in-game. (but obviously it's easier to see when the camera moves)

My NVCP settings are the defaults after running DDU, also clicking 'restore' in the NVCP, to ensure everything is set to defaults, the only setting I change is the Vsync one, which I set to 'On'. The Low Latency Setting is Off as per defaults.

Strangely, I can't replicate the benchmark tests in MSI afterburner for other games. I'll need to do some more benchmarking, but there's a chance Dota 2 may be a different issue to the other games I see this in, despite looking the same/similar.

[jorimt]

Top results are Vsync at 100hz, feels smooth as it should. The 1% lows are barely different from the average.
Bottom results are me setting an in-game fps cap at 95fps, which immediately makes it feel stuttery, as reflected in the 1% and 0.1% lows in comparison. This is without me even moving the camera or doing anything at all in-game. (but obviously it's easier to see when the camera moves)

My NVCP settings are the defaults after running DDU, also clicking 'restore' in the NVCP, to ensure everything is set to defaults, the only setting I change is the Vsync one, which I set to 'On'. The Low Latency Setting is Off as per defaults.

That's a faulty test; with framerates below the refresh rate, standalone V-SYNC will always stutter, regardless of the physical refresh rate, due to repeating a frame roughly every second, even without half refresh lock behavior.

What I assumed you were complaining about (and maybe still are) was that same behavior occurring even with G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + framerates within the refresh rate, which isn't expected (assuming it isn't the system causing the stutter, which no syncing method can fix). That is, it's not expected for G-SYNC to act like standalone V-SYNC (when properly configured) in that scenario.

Look, you're mostly pointing out Dota, so I'll stick to that. I downloaded it last night and loaded up a replay to test as a makeshift benchmark. Even with all my settings configured properly, the in-game framerate limiter still was allowing/causing jitter/judder during panning.

Dota is a CPU-limited game. I.E. it barely uses the GPU on capable system, so I don't even know why a setting like Nvidia Reflex is included when the possibility of the GPU usage on a high end system maxing out is near 0.

Also, since the game will barely push the GPU on a 4070 Ti, it will downclock. To avoid that, and to ensure proper configuration for all other settings, try...

NVCP settings:

nvcp-settings.jpg (556.24 KiB) Viewed 4672 times

Nvidia Inspector settings:
(download here if you don't have it, you can also set this for the game profile in NVCP under Manage 3D Settings > Progam Settings tab, if you prefer)

nvi-settings.jpg (570.54 KiB) Viewed 4672 times

RTSS settings:
(download MSI Afterburner here if you don't have it already)

rtss-settings.jpg (285.96 KiB) Viewed 4672 times

Dota 2 settings:
(I used the Vulkan API, which you can download in the DLC section for the game, along with OpenGL, but use whatever API works best for you and make sure it is the one selected and applied below instead. Also, you'll have to restart the game for it to take effect).

dota-2-settings.jpg (839.08 KiB) Viewed 4672 times

I did the above, only at 1440p 240Hz with a 224 FPS RTSS limit, and I had no noticeable stutter when moving or panning the camera, with only minor expected frametime variances on an occasional basis.

If that still doesn't work for you, A) you're experiencing something no one else does on any other system (unlikely), B) you expect there to never be a single uneven frame EVER (most likely, but who knows), or C) Stonehenge (no one in the world can determine the true origin).

Again, your video captures are useless since they aren't 1:1 with your monitor framerate or refresh rate. If someone like me was able to see it in person, we'd be able to confirm whether what you're experiencing is abnormal. Obviously, that's not practical, so we do what we can and try to assume the people we are talking to aren't technological hypochondriacs.

[Crazyness]

As usual Jorimt doinK his thingees
ty for being so helpful no matter the time consumption.

maybe i can say a word or 2 towards Dota..idk if it counts those 10k hours on it

those issues are unfixable in Dota..tnx devs very good job after countless threads on diffrent forums for the past idk how many years.
you can only minimize those issues but you can not completely remove them.

couple of steps..
launch options -high is most important 1 ,there are much much more of them(google, exepriment)

open Task Mngr when you start the game up,
right click details set afinity,untick last core(some of gamers reported 1 core working for them)
..dont ask me why,idk but it works
priority will be high bcs -high launch options.

ingame options all low everything off exept compute shaders and just for kicks animated portrait,
it is the same end result no matter the system.
you can experiment with texture(mine- high),efects and shadow quality(low,low)=personal preference

frame times aka graph is the worst in DOta since i can remember,since they introduce Reflex couple of months ago,graphs even worse.
best result on gtx rtx it depends on patch aka update,sometimes vulkan is most stable and non sttutery,sometimes dx..etc
try it find the best working for you.

-novid -fullscreen +fps_max 999 -map dota -nod3d9ex -high
those are mine launch options,for the 390hz 1080p
curently on dx11 and reflex disabled.

also side note:
Dota players will now..when phantom lancer is in group fight everything is stutery mess
pay atention on that,if you notice that happening:
options: advanced options: Summoned units auto atack : always.. sometimes works with: never., pick your poison.

hope it will help you 2 mask those issues,to completely fix them unlucky but never.

Very very poorly optimized game.
csgo and dota most money involved,
most gamers online involved ,
i guess if we play it.. why do they need 2 fix it,everything works as intended

[Chief Blur Buster]

Sawtooth patterns are more likely to appear with VRR=OFF than with VRR=ON, so testing both will be very useful data points.

If you do, however, use VRR, definitely always use VSYNC ON and a framerate cap a few fps below max Hz, for maximum fluidity.

Some VRR implementations are very mediocre (e.g. stutters more than a proper VRR implementation), sometimes caused by monitor firmware bugs, and sometimes caused by unoptimized drivers. But if your VRR is working properly, VRR should reduce stutters and should not cause cyclic stutters.

The best fluidity settings

When motion fluidity is your priority, assuming your monitor and drivers does not have a buggy VRR implementation:

Monitor Setting: VRR ON
NVCP Setting: G-SYNC ON and VSYNC ON
Game setting: VSYNC OFF (opposite driver setting, helps get gametime=photontime closer).
Framerate Cap: About 3-5% below max Hz

(...Note: RTSS capping will be usually smoother than flawed in-game framerate caps...)

[woodyfly]

If refresh rate is not synchronized with frame rate 100% of the time you will see micro stutter and tearing.

Not true I had a xl2411z that never stuttered at any fps above 144. A lot of csgo players play uncapped and dont have stutters

[matkinson]

Top results are Vsync at 100hz, feels smooth as it should. The 1% lows are barely different from the average.
Bottom results are me setting an in-game fps cap at 95fps, which immediately makes it feel stuttery, as reflected in the 1% and 0.1% lows in comparison. This is without me even moving the camera or doing anything at all in-game. (but obviously it's easier to see when the camera moves)

My NVCP settings are the defaults after running DDU, also clicking 'restore' in the NVCP, to ensure everything is set to defaults, the only setting I change is the Vsync one, which I set to 'On'. The Low Latency Setting is Off as per defaults.

That's a faulty test; with framerates below the refresh rate, standalone V-SYNC will always stutter, regardless of the physical refresh rate, due to repeating a frame roughly every second, even without half refresh lock behavior.

What I assumed you were complaining about (and maybe still are) was that same behavior occurring even with G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + framerates within the refresh rate, which isn't expected (assuming it isn't the system causing the stutter, which no syncing method can fix). That is, it's not expected for G-SYNC to act like standalone V-SYNC (when properly configured) in that scenario.

Look, you're mostly pointing out Dota, so I'll stick to that. I downloaded it last night and loaded up a replay to test as a makeshift benchmark. Even with all my settings configured properly, the in-game framerate limiter still was allowing/causing jitter/judder during panning.

Dota is a CPU-limited game. I.E. it barely uses the GPU on capable system, so I don't even know why a setting like Nvidia Reflex is included when the possibility of the GPU usage on a high end system maxing out is near 0.

Also, since the game will barely push the GPU on a 4070 Ti, it will downclock. To avoid that, and to ensure proper configuration for all other settings, try...

NVCP settings:

nvcp-settings.jpg

Nvidia Inspector settings:
(download here if you don't have it, you can also set this for the game profile in NVCP under Manage 3D Settings > Progam Settings tab, if you prefer)

nvi-settings.jpg

RTSS settings:
(download MSI Afterburner here if you don't have it already)

rtss-settings.jpg

Dota 2 settings:
(I used the Vulkan API, which you can download in the DLC section for the game, along with OpenGL, but use whatever API works best for you and make sure it is the one selected and applied below instead. Also, you'll have to restart the game for it to take effect).

dota-2-settings.jpg

I did the above, only at 1440p 240Hz with a 224 FPS RTSS limit, and I had no noticeable stutter when moving or panning the camera, with only minor expected frametime variances on an occasional basis.

If that still doesn't work for you, A) you're experiencing something no one else does on any other system (unlikely), B) you expect there to never be a single uneven frame EVER (most likely, but who knows), or C) Stonehenge (no one in the world can determine the true origin).

Again, your video captures are useless since they aren't 1:1 with your monitor framerate or refresh rate. If someone like me was able to see it in person, we'd be able to confirm whether what you're experiencing is abnormal. Obviously, that's not practical, so we do what we can and try to assume the people we are talking to aren't technological hypochondriacs.

Ok, I performed every step you mentioned above.

I think I may be getting my issue across poorly.

Of course I can't see what you're seeing either, but lets presume the in-game fps lock looks as bad for me as it does for you. That is what my game looks like, all the time, at any fps below or above the Vsync lock of 144fps (my monitor's refresh rate) This includes using frame caps in game, RTSS, NVCP frame caps, it's all the same. Below 144fps VSYNC = looks terrible. It feels like Vsync+Gsync turn off the seconds it goes below 144fps.

Here is a benchmark, set exactly as above, I set my RTSS to 120fps VRR ON & VRR OFF: (tried 138fps as well, same thing)
https://imgur.com/a/COBOIer

I either have the world's most sensitive eyes/brain, where going from 144fps to 138fps, looks worse than 60fps to 30fps, or something is not working as expected.
I can get MHW running completely smooth at 75fps, feels a thousand times better than the games having issues at practically double the fps.
I've done the same in TF2, but there is no obvious sawtoothing there, but I'm still seeing the issue.
I can replicate the issue on many games, and show other people who say they can also see it (in person ofc) but the frametimes show nothing.
I don't know what else to say.

I admit my slow motion video probably isn't of the most use, but I personally wouldn't say it was useless. It shoots at 960fps, and the difference from when a game is running what I deem to be smooth, and Dota when it's not smooth, it's extremely obvious to me on camera, and reflects the feel I get when playing.

If refresh rate is not synchronized with frame rate 100% of the time you will see micro stutter and tearing.

Not true I had a xl2411z that never stuttered at any fps above 144. A lot of csgo players play uncapped and don't have stutters

This is it, if I run vsync off, it is completely unplayable to me. Yet everyone else seems to play with it off, which is a completely alien concept to me. It may as well be running at 20fps when Vsync is off.

I think the simple reality is, I'm not likely to find a solution, and let's be honest, it's not the end of the world.
At some point I'm going to try Linux, and probably in a year or so upgrade my cpu/motherboard/ram in one go. Fingers crossed.

I think for now, I'm going to go enjoy some games that don't exhibit this problem.

Again, genuinely, cheers for the responses.

[MST]

Vsync off is alien to me too. But I don't use VRR. And I also always make sure my fps is equal to my refresh rate. That's why I play on 85hz with MBR on XG2431 with 0 crosstalk. Have you tried to either:
1. Test your monitor at someone else's computer
2. Test someone else's monitor at your computer

But I have one more thing to add. Have you identified the REASON that your fps drops below 144 fps? Is it CPU or GPU? CPU bottlenecking usually causes stutters in contrast to GPU bottlenecks where game remains smooth but blur and input latency increase.
The best way to tell is if at the moment of dropping below 144, GPU is not at 98%+. That means your CPU is the bottleneck. There are few games out there that can make use of all your threads/cores, and that is less and less the more you have. So you can be CPU bottlenecked and your cpu usage is at 20%. The graphs will also not tell the full story if you have some form of multi-threading enabled.
I'm starting to be on this being the explanation. You CPU does seem a bit low-end as well. And the 5800x doesn't have much more single-core performance. Test some single player game that doesn't rely too much on CPU.

[jorimt]

I can replicate the issue on many games, and show other people who say they can also see it (in person ofc) but the frametimes show nothing.
I don't know what else to say.

I don't have much else to say either.

What you're describing could be a simple configuration error or oversight if it's being experienced in some but not all games.

Also, as @MST mentioned in his last reply, being CPU-limited can affect the severity of stutter you are experiencing, so if your CPU is notably weaker than your GPU, you typically want to play at a higher res to make the GPU work harder...is what I'd say to someone playing at 1080p, but you're already playing at 4k, so there goes that too. Sigh.

I'd also suggest it could be the monitor, but like many of these thread types, we're immediately shot down by "it's happened on multiple monitors and multiple builds with any and all combination of settings." Yeah, really narrows it down...

All I can suggest is testing your monitor using the frame skipping pattern via TestUFO if you haven't already:
https://testufo.com/frameskipping

More than one FreeSync model in the past has been known to exhibit frame skipping with default factory timings.

Beyond that, again, any other troubleshooting of this type would be best done by someone experienced and knowledgeable on this subject in person.

I admit my slow motion video probably isn't of the most use, but I personally wouldn't say it was useless. It shoots at 960fps, and the difference from when a game is running what I deem to be smooth, and Dota when it's not smooth, it's extremely obvious to me on camera, and reflects the feel I get when playing.

"Useless" to anyone who hasn't already seen your system running Dota in person.

I think for now, I'm going to go enjoy some games that don't exhibit this problem.

Sounds sane to me.

To be clear, I have a $5000+ system (latest specs in my sig) that I've run with 3 different motherboard models, two difference SSD OS drives, and two different GPU models in the past 1 and 1/2 years, and all the problem games that stutter for me have effectively stuttered the same, in the same way, and in the same places with the same settings on every configuration.

How much money you spend on your hardware and how capable it is does not always = guaranteed performance quality in every game.

The amount of responsibility that lies on development skill and the capabilities and efficiency of the given game engine used (regardless of the hardware running it) is sorely overlooked and underestimated by most users nowadays.

In other words, many that start these types of threads seem to mistake software limitations for hardware issues, but the sheer variance in performance from game-to-game on the same healthy, capable system can be wildly large.

Hardware engineers have certainly outpaced software engineers lately to the point where we get all these threads saying "my hardware appears to be fine in all my testing (good temps, no crashing, benches fine, etc), but it must be faulty because game A or B runs like crap."

Sometimes (but of course not always) it just the GAME. Visit a few forums on the game you're having an issues with, and you'll probably find dozens or hundreds of users complaining about the same thing more often that not, which only a patch (or an entire engine-swap) that may never come can address.

Whether that applies to you in your problem games on your particular configuration, I can't say definitively one way or another.

Again, genuinely, cheers for the responses.

Sure, no worries.

Trust me, trying to help visitors in this medium is as frustrating for me as it is for you to not get the answers you're looking for, but there are limitations in helping someone troubleshoot remotely via text solely based on their own experience and through their own perceptions and explanations of the issue.

Anyway, best of luck, and feel free to update us in this thread if you make any new discoveries or progress.

[lizardpeter]

You don't need to pay anyone for advice. I can tell you what will work. First, ditch the 144 FPS lock. You'll want to pick up either a 1080p or 1440p 360 Hz monitor or better and run with FPS completely unlocked. Get a new PC with much faster CPU, GPU, and RAM (very important). Make sure you have a very fast NVMe SSD. Reinstall Windows and make sure absolutely no bloatware or RGB software is installed. Optimize it like crazy. Overclock CPU, GPU, and RAM. Don't even waste your time with GSYNC with monitors at or above 360 Hz. All you will be doing is adding slight latency. Make sure all power saving features for every device are disabled in BIOS, Windows, etc. That's what I do and have absolutely no stuttering across any game, ever.