FPS & Variable refresh rate unable to sync in Dota 2

[bilalirfanpk]

Hello,

I recently bought Gigabyte G24F-2 monitor. FreeSync is enabled and G-sync under NVCP is also enabled for my RTX 2060. Monitor has 165hz refresh rate. The problem is whenever my fps drops below the max refresh rate, I face tearing plus micro stuttering which really annoys me and makes the game feel not so smooth. VRR is working and I have checked it via OSD RR counter and also via G-sync indicator.

Freesync doesn't seem to fulfill its purpose which is to match the refresh rate with my current fps which isn't dropping below 100 by any means so I am well in FreeSync/G-sync range.

The fps counter and refresh rate counter seems to mismatch which seems to cause tearing plus micro stuttering. I have already tried;

FreeSync + Vsync ON

FreeSync + Vsync ON + Frame limiter (-3 cap)

FreeSync + Vsync OFF + Frame limiter (-3 cap)

FreeSync + Vsync ON + Nvidia reflex boost

Actually everything that's been guided here on forums but FPS and RR doesn't seem to match once the FPS drops below my max refresh rate. Not sure if this issue is specific to Dota 2 or not.

Tried COD-MW2 and FreeSync works like a charm. Zero tearing or stutters.

[jorimt]

I recently bought Gigabyte G24F-2 monitor.

FYI, it's not an official G-SYNC compatible model, so there's no guarantee there won't be issues in that mode (even though there usually aren't on displays that are uncertified).

FreeSync is enabled and G-sync under NVCP is also enabled for my RTX 2060. Monitor has 165hz refresh rate. The problem is whenever my fps drops below the max refresh rate, I face tearing plus micro stuttering which really annoys me and makes the game feel not so smooth. VRR is working and I have checked it via OSD RR counter and also via G-sync indicator.

Firstly, VRR does not prevent system-side stutter, only V-SYNC-related stutter and tearing. Secondly, if you're still experiencing tearing in Dota with G-SYNC + V-SYNC + framerates within the refresh rate, then VRR is not actually engaged.

G-SYNC + V-SYNC literally can't tear unless 1) VRR actually isn't active for whatever reason, or 2) you're mistaking another visual artifact for tearing.

Freesync doesn't seem to fulfill its purpose which is to match the refresh rate with my current fps which isn't dropping below 100 by any means so I am well in FreeSync/G-sync range.

Can you clarify this point? In what way is it not matching your framerate?

To be clear, with VRR, there's your current max physical refresh rate (165Hz), and then there's your current variable refresh rate, which is based on the current framerate. I.E. if the framerate is 100, the variable refresh rate is 100, while the physical refresh rate remains 165Hz.

As for the monitor's real-time refresh rate meter, it's not very reliable on FreeSync displays and usually includes LFC multiples. For instance, if your framerate is 30, the meter may show 60, which is the LFC multiple (30 x 2).

[bilalirfanpk]

FYI, it's not an official G-SYNC compatible model, so there's no guarantee there won't be issues in that mode (even though there usually aren't on displays that are uncertified).

Thanks for your responses. I totally understand that I have barely heard uncertified monitors having issues so I might rule it out.

Firstly, VRR does not prevent system-side stutter, only V-SYNC-related stutter and tearing. Secondly, if you're still experiencing tearing in Dota with G-SYNC + V-SYNC + framerates within the refresh rate, then VRR is not actually engaged.

Agreed. VRR is actually engaged as I can see it fluctuating live in the OSD. Also Gsync indicator seems to tell that its engaged.

G-SYNC + V-SYNC literally can't tear unless 1) VRR actually isn't active for whatever reason, or 2) you're mistaking another visual artifact for tearing.

I am totally sure that its not visual artifacts but 100% tearing, stuttering and juddering.

Can you clarify this point? In what way is it not matching your framerate?

When I try to match the FPS counter and VRR counter, it doesn't seem to match at all. I know that it cannot be 100% accurate depiction of what's going on behind but again, if my FPS are sitting around 110, the VRR counter should never jump back to 165 and come back to 110 or in between. The VRR even goes below sometimes from the current FPS which it should not.

As for the monitor's real-time refresh rate meter, it's not very reliable on FreeSync displays and usually includes LFC multiples. For instance, if your framerate is 30, the meter may show 60, which is the LFC multiple (30 x 2).

I noticed that when I tried Nvidia Pendulum test. At 40fps, the VRR counter showed 80hz and at 50fps it showed 100hz, but anything above 60fps, it matched with the correct fps value and showed the same as well. For example, 60fps was exactly 60 VRR.

I tried COD-Warzone-2 last night and it was smooth af. My VRR indicator never jumped back to 165hz as the fps were around 120. It 99% showed the exact value as the FPS counter was and I felt good about it.
But in Dota 2, despite having 100-120 fps in big team fights, the VRR indicator tends to show different value as to what FPS currently is and going back and forth to the max refresh rate. JSYK, I tried this on 1920x1080x165hz and 1920x1080x144hz both. When playing at 144hz, it keeps jumping back to 144hz despite the framerate was around 120 at that time. And not just 100-120fps, even if current FPS were 150, it will keep going back and forth from 150 to 165hz which made me that the VRR is not in SYNC with the FPS. Hope I didnt confuse you.

[bilalirfanpk]

Posting some videos to make myself clearer and for a better understanding.

COD Warzone with FreeSync ON + Vsync ON + fps cap; https://imgur.com/sYulWux
- VRR counter and FPS counter is almost same. No tearing or stuttering.

COD Warzone with FreeSync ON + Vsync ON + NO fps cap; https://imgur.com/abyo8DE
- VRR trying its best to keep up with FPS, pretty good. Though I paused at couple of frames and saw 165 but I guess it could be margin of error.

Dota 2 in game with FreeSync ON + Vsync ON via NVCP + Reflex On+Boost; https://imgur.com/LWwN4BF
- You can see how VRR counter shows its going back to max refresh rate despite my fps well below 165hz. So basically aint syncing to current FPS. Only when this VRR keeps shuffling between current fps to max and in between, I feel micro stutter in moving units, tearing while panning camera in game and also judders in team fights.

Dota 2 in menu with FreeSync ON + Vsync ON via NVCP + Reflex On+Boost; https://imgur.com/Nij6Pmq
- Even in main menu, VRR trying hard to get back to max refresh rate as you can see that menu FPS are steady at 158 FPS. Obviously cant feel tear or stutter in main menu.

[jorimt]

When I try to match the FPS counter and VRR counter, it doesn't seem to match at all. I know that it cannot be 100% accurate depiction of what's going on behind but again, if my FPS are sitting around 110, the VRR counter should never jump back to 165 and come back to 110 or in between. The VRR even goes below sometimes from the current FPS which it should not.

Why shouldn't it? Again, it's not guaranteed to be "accurate," it's just an averaged approximation, and I've noticed the least "accurate" of these meters are on FreeSync displays in G-SYNC-Compatible mode.

Native G-SYNC monitor meters are much more "accurate," but still do this to a degree.

And when I say "accurate," I actually mean "stable," since the averaging on these meters may actually be more "accurate" than system-side framerate readouts in the sense that they likely show a much more immediate "average," making everything look worse. I.E. averaged FPS readouts on the system-side are usually aggregated from a full second of frames, whereas these monitor meters probably reflect an aggregate taken over a much shorter period of time.

Basically, whenever there's a large enough frametime variance or spike on the system-side, these monitor meters tend to "reset," causing them to momentarily snap back to the max refresh rate number in each instance, something that can occur multiple times a second depending on the given frametime performance.

As for them dropping lower, that can be due to them detecting a frametime variance that causes the framerate to momentarily plummet below your average, but not all the way to 0. Add the fact that they include LFC multiples in their readouts, and it explains the visual fluctuations of these meters.

They, like any meter, are effectively an OCD-inducer.

I noticed that when I tried Nvidia Pendulum test. At 40fps, the VRR counter showed 80hz and at 50fps it showed 100hz, but anything above 60fps, it matched with the correct fps value and showed the same as well. For example, 60fps was exactly 60 VRR.

Right, that just means LFC on your particular monitor model starts somewhere between 40 and 60 FPS.

I tried COD-Warzone-2 last night and it was smooth af. My VRR indicator never jumped back to 165hz as the fps were around 120. It 99% showed the exact value as the FPS counter was and I felt good about it.
But in Dota 2, despite having 100-120 fps in big team fights, the VRR indicator tends to show different value as to what FPS currently is and going back and forth to the max refresh rate. JSYK, I tried this on 1920x1080x165hz and 1920x1080x144hz both. When playing at 144hz, it keeps jumping back to 144hz despite the framerate was around 120 at that time. And not just 100-120fps, even if current FPS were 150, it will keep going back and forth from 150 to 165hz which made me that the VRR is not in SYNC with the FPS.

Posting some videos to make myself clearer and for a better understanding.

COD obviously has better frametime performance than Dota on your PC. Again, this will affect the meter.

Also, just because Dota is making your meter wig out does not necessarily mean VRR is not working properly on your monitor. The general rule is if you're experience an issue in one game you aren't in many or most others games, it's quite simply the game, not your hardware.

As for this Dota issue in particular, what happens when you max out the in-game framerate limiter and set a 100 FPS limit in RTSS instead?

Further, you can install the below RTSS add-on and compare it to your meter in Dota:
https://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulleti ... st11931346

If it's showing the same thing as the meter, then it probably means Dota has very jittery frametime performance on your system, which can cause what your videos are showing, since, again, these monitor-side meters are very sensitive to frametime performance.

As for Dota still tearing with G-SYNC + V-SYNC, are you using the in-game V-SYNC option or the NVCP option? And are you using fullscreen or borderless/windowed mode?

[bilalirfanpk]

Totally got your points, you're the guru here haha.

Also, just because Dota is making your meter wig out does not necessarily mean VRR is not working properly on your monitor. The general rule is if you're experience an issue in one game you aren't in many or most others games, it's quite simply the game, not your hardware.

You're right. VRR is working correctly but maybe not just in Dota. Its a weird thing.

As for this Dota issue in particular, what happens when you max out the in-game framerate limiter and set a 100 FPS limit in RTSS instead?

When I try limiting frames via RTSS, game starts stuttering like hell, gets even worst when I cap to lower ranges like 120 or below. If I cap -3 from my max refresh rate, its the same micro stuttering in game. I used to play on 75hz monitor with scanline sync and no freesync, life was good man. I upgraded for better experience and I couldn't sleep tryina figure out how to fix this.

Further, you can install the below RTSS add-on and compare it to your meter in Dota:
https://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulleti ... st11931346

Let me try this and get back to you. I am figuring out how to install this addon.

As for Dota still tearing with G-SYNC + V-SYNC, are you using the in-game V-SYNC option or the NVCP option?

I am using the NVCP option for Vsync. Tried in game too, no difference.

[bilalirfanpk]

Further, you can install the below RTSS add-on and compare it to your meter in Dota:
https://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulleti ... st11931346

If it's showing the same thing as the meter, then it probably means Dota has very jittery frametime performance on your system, which can cause what your videos are showing, since, again, these monitor-side meters are very sensitive to frametime performance.

I also did a clean driver installation recently which somehow eliminated the tearing if I aint wrong. But the stuttering is still all over the place. Just did that RTSS VRR counter check and to my surprise, it somehow matches the FPS and the monitor's VRR indicator have different values the way I showed earlier. Here's the video. https://imgur.com/99oceLm

EDIT: I am using Fullscreen exclusive mode. Tried in borderless as well but to no avail.

[bilalirfanpk]

As for this Dota issue in particular, what happens when you max out the in-game framerate limiter and set a 100 FPS limit in RTSS instead?

As now I have tried tons of options and fixes, the only way I am able to play Dota smoothly is going back to GSYNC ON + VSYNC OFF + RTSS Scanline Sync with setting my game to 1080px100hz with Nvidia reflex to On+Boost.

As my system can maintain 110+ fps easily in demanding situations so it seems to be the safest bet overall.

So in short with GSYNC/FreeSync ON, my game stutters if even a single frame drops from the max refresh rate. So 165hz Dota 2 wont be possible for me. Even 120hz.

[jorimt]

Just did that RTSS VRR counter check and to my surprise, it somehow matches the FPS and the monitor's VRR indicator have different values the way I showed earlier. Here's the video. https://imgur.com/99oceLm

Then your monitor's meter is particularly unreliable.

As I've said in multiple threads about these FreeSync VRR meters, they should not be relied on for average FPS readouts. You should use the system-side readouts for that instead.

The monitor meters are only useful for validating whether VRR is currently engaged; fluctuating = engaged, static = not engaged.

As now I have tried tons of options and fixes, the only way I am able to play Dota smoothly is going back to GSYNC ON + VSYNC OFF + RTSS Scanline Sync with setting my game to 1080px100hz with Nvidia reflex to On+Boost.

As my system can maintain 110+ fps easily in demanding situations so it seems to be the safest bet overall.

So in short with GSYNC/FreeSync ON, my game stutters if even a single frame drops from the max refresh rate. So 165hz Dota 2 wont be possible for me. Even 120hz.

My guess is you're on an AMD CPU? If so, going by more than one report in these forums lately, AMD CPUs seem to interact particularly badly with Dota for some reason, and Dota is a heavily CPU-limited game that barely relies on the GPU for framerate. You can try the Vulkan API in that game instead of OpenGL and see if that helps, if you haven't already.

Dota also has known frametime performance issues on pretty much any configuration. Just Google it and you'll get lots of results.

In the sort time I tested it on my PC for another user, I was able to get Dota to run without any noticeable stutter, but that's not saying much since I'm 1) using an Intel CPU and they were using an AMD CPU, and 2) my PC specs are in the 99th percentile (see sig) and not representative of the average user's PC (and this is even before I just recently upgraded from a 12900k to a 13900k CPU and 5600Mhz to 6400Mhz DDR5 RAM):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11425&start=30#p90386

Regardless, this isn't directly G-SYNC or hardware-related. It's game-specific in Dota's case, so whatever works for you, use it, even if it doesn't make sense.

Software variances from app-to-app can be extreme, regardless of hardware.

[bilalirfanpk]

Then your monitor's meter is particularly unreliable.

As I've said in multiple threads about these FreeSync VRR meters, they should not be relied on for average FPS readouts. You should use the system-side readouts for that instead.

The monitor meters are only useful for validating whether VRR is currently engaged; fluctuating = engaged, static = not engaged.

Yes agreed with that. If my FPS and VRR matches in Dota, then I just wonder what could be the issue. It seems like its frame pacing issue which is causing stutters.

My guess is you're on an AMD CPU? If so, going by more than one report in these forums lately, AMD CPUs seem to interact particularly badly with Dota for some reason, and Dota is a heavily CPU-limited game that barely relies on the GPU for framerate. You can try the Vulkan API in that game instead of OpenGL and see if that helps, if you haven't already.

I am using Intel i5 10400F paired with RTX 2060. OpenGL doesn't work anymore with Dota and I have tried Vulkan which had even worst fps and stuttering overall. Currently my game is running on DX11.

In the sort time I tested it on my PC for another user, I was able to get Dota to run without any noticeable stutter, but that's not saying much since I'm 1) using an Intel CPU and they were using an AMD CPU, and 2) my PC specs are in the 99th percentile (see sig) and not representative of the average user's PC (and this is even before I just recently upgraded from a 12900k to a 13900k CPU and 5600Mhz to 6400Mhz DDR5 RAM):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11425&start=30#p90386

Yes that thread was like 3 weeks ago and I did read it. He has the same issue. Your system is a beast man.

I guess I will either stick to what works for me or just keep trying to find a solution. Maybe upgrading my W10 to Windows 11 might help. I don't know. Thanks for all the help. <3