XG2401 here. Wait for better OLEDs or buy something now?

[quake3]

Hi, im looking to improve my color quality while still being able to play vs top level players in Quake. Viewsonic VG2401 is my current monitor. Im ok with how it performs at 144hz. Ghosting isn't a problem, I can do flick rails well enough without blurring, slow tracking also feels quite good. When I stopped using CTR back then I waited for 2233rz to be able to play 120hz, then eventually got this VG2401 and here I am, still waiting for good ole OLEDs. But since I keep hearing about burn ins this and that, I don't want to gamble with an RMA so I will wait some further iterations, also, 27" is too big, im ok with 24"-25" range.

So basically what I want is, be able to watch a movie at night and actually be able to enjoy it, unlike this current monitor which is really bad on dark scenes, but do not compromise in Quake performance.

I was looking at what pros use, and most of the liquipedia stuff must be outdated, but everyone was using TN's, except I found k1llsen used or still uses this one:

ASUS ROG 360 Hz PG259QN IPS

So basically, im considering this only due that reason. I trust high skill Quake players more than most people to decide if a monitor is good in practice. And then, there's this IPS with a seal of approval of the fellas here:

ViewSonic XG2431 IPS

So im trying to decide between these 2, unless someone has a better idea.

Im assuming btw that TN monitors are still pretty bad compared to IPS colors wise, and also that IPS monitors have caught up with TN's, or are good enough to defeat top players in Quake. Or has TN colors also improved compared to what im using now?

Btw, I see there's another version of the ASUS one, PG259QNR. Is this relevant at all? looks like the same monitor with "nVidia Reflex", whatever that is. Should I buy whatever I find availible?

Anyway let me know.

[kyube]

I am on the same monitor actually! I came from a CRT to the XG2401 and I sure missed strobing, sample and hold just wasn't it for me.
I'd advise to go for the XG2431 or the XL2566K, which I find are the best monitor for tracking heavy games such as Quake, Apex, Overwatch etc.
The XL2566K might be a better pick if you play games such as QL, which are stuck at integer frame caps (125fps & 250fps), since you can make a custom 250hz mode with DYAC & QFT, making it crosstalkless

[quake3]

I am on the same monitor actually! I came from a CRT to the XG2401 and I sure missed strobing, sample and hold just wasn't it for me.
I'd advise to go for the XG2431 or the XL2566K, which I find are the best monitor for tracking heavy games such as Quake, Apex, Overwatch etc.
The XL2566K might be a better pick if you play games such as QL, which are stuck at integer frame caps (125fps & 250fps), since you can make a custom 250hz mode with DYAC & QFT, making it crosstalkless

This sounds very interesting, but I see it's a TN panel, so im assuming colors suck and it's not going to be an upgrade for watching movies or playing darker single player games. The XG2431 is an IPS panel so colors should be better. Im not sure what to buy tbh.
Also in terms of QW, this seems irrelevant, here it's said that you benefit from hz as high as possible:

2) MONITOR'S REFRESHRATE

The higher the better, it's that simple. You can try syncing the refreshrate with your maxfps but it doesn't really matter as long as you run at least 150Hz or more. Even lower refreshrates work pretty good, so if your monitor doesn't support 150Hz, even 100Hz can be enough, though not as good. If you can't get at least 150Hz but are limited to 100Hz only, then you should try to match fps that is close to a multiplication of that refreshrate, for example 308fps is close to 100Hz * 3 and so on.

https://www.quakeworld.nu/blog/140/the- ... -smooth-qw

Why can't all competitive FPS just use this method? I have never seen a more smooth engine than QW particularly with the ezQuake port.


What are you going to buy? or you will keep the VG2401 until OLEDs don't suck?

[kyube]

I am on the same monitor actually! I came from a CRT to the XG2401 and I sure missed strobing, sample and hold just wasn't it for me.
I'd advise to go for the XG2431 or the XL2566K, which I find are the best monitor for tracking heavy games such as Quake, Apex, Overwatch etc.
The XL2566K might be a better pick if you play games such as QL, which are stuck at integer frame caps (125fps & 250fps), since you can make a custom 250hz mode with DYAC & QFT, making it crosstalkless

This sounds very interesting, but I see it's a TN panel, so im assuming colors suck and it's not going to be an upgrade for watching movies or playing darker single player games. The XG2431 is an IPS panel so colors should be better. Im not sure what to buy tbh.
Also in terms of QW, this seems irrelevant, here it's said that you benefit from hz as high as possible:

2) MONITOR'S REFRESHRATE

The higher the better, it's that simple. You can try syncing the refreshrate with your maxfps but it doesn't really matter as long as you run at least 150Hz or more. Even lower refreshrates work pretty good, so if your monitor doesn't support 150Hz, even 100Hz can be enough, though not as good. If you can't get at least 150Hz but are limited to 100Hz only, then you should try to match fps that is close to a multiplication of that refreshrate, for example 308fps is close to 100Hz * 3 and so on.

https://www.quakeworld.nu/blog/140/the- ... -smooth-qw

Why can't all competitive FPS just use this method? I have never seen a more smooth engine than QW particularly with the ezQuake port.


What are you going to buy? or you will keep the XG2401 until OLEDs don't suck?

I don't think OLEDs are something to go for now or in general. Burn in is bound to happen and I keep my stuff for longer. I don't want to deal with it, so the only natural continuation of OLED would be microLED, which will fix the burnin and deliver even faster response times, but is pretty far away (dare I even say past this decade) and extremely expensive currently.

From a motion clarity perspective, you have 2 paths to follow if you want to eliminate motion blur (get as good if not better than CRTs):
1.) Strobed
2.) Non-strobed (sample and hold)

Strobing (with low persistence, such as the XG2431 and XL2566K, the best on the market) allow for a motion clarity experience equivalent to a >1000hz refresh rate display (running at 1k FPS) and considering most modern titles are running at low FPS, I find this to be the most optimal path to minimise motion blur.
The XG2431 has a crosstalkless range of 60-120hz, with even 240hz having very minimal crosstalk. (the former with QFT)
The XL2566K has a crosstalkless range of 100-240hz, with DyAC at 360hz being mighty impressive too (the former with QFT)
However, it is not the holy grail. It is merely a band-aid. Eyestrain is a concern and there's still the stroboscopic effect which can only be solved with bruteforcing higher refresh rates. There's also some eyestrain concern with strobing, as it is a bit harsher than CRT strobing.

The unstrobed/sample and hold path would, however, resolve these issues. But, the catch is that frame rate amplification has to take off in a big way for it to be viable. This approach also requires very good hardware, which I lack.

Considering my current lackluster hardware and the fact I cannot run FPS higher than ~240fps on my rig, something like the XG2431 or XL2566K is optimal in my case. I would still opt for a XG2431 though due to the price difference. I cannot justify paying 700€ for a TN panel when there's a 300€ panel doing as good if not a better job than it.

I don't play games such as QL as often however, where capping to 250fps is prefered.

Don't get me wrong, strobing is not a must and both panels perform extremely well in general, so you could run both of them without their respective MBR modes (PureXP/DyAC), but it won't be as clear as with MBR which may or may not be noticable in-game.

Also, in regards to capping, take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73gFgNrYVQ

[quake3]

I am on the same monitor actually! I came from a CRT to the XG2401 and I sure missed strobing, sample and hold just wasn't it for me.
I'd advise to go for the XG2431 or the XL2566K, which I find are the best monitor for tracking heavy games such as Quake, Apex, Overwatch etc.
The XL2566K might be a better pick if you play games such as QL, which are stuck at integer frame caps (125fps & 250fps), since you can make a custom 250hz mode with DYAC & QFT, making it crosstalkless

This sounds very interesting, but I see it's a TN panel, so im assuming colors suck and it's not going to be an upgrade for watching movies or playing darker single player games. The XG2431 is an IPS panel so colors should be better. Im not sure what to buy tbh.
Also in terms of QW, this seems irrelevant, here it's said that you benefit from hz as high as possible:

2) MONITOR'S REFRESHRATE

The higher the better, it's that simple. You can try syncing the refreshrate with your maxfps but it doesn't really matter as long as you run at least 150Hz or more. Even lower refreshrates work pretty good, so if your monitor doesn't support 150Hz, even 100Hz can be enough, though not as good. If you can't get at least 150Hz but are limited to 100Hz only, then you should try to match fps that is close to a multiplication of that refreshrate, for example 308fps is close to 100Hz * 3 and so on.

https://www.quakeworld.nu/blog/140/the- ... -smooth-qw

Why can't all competitive FPS just use this method? I have never seen a more smooth engine than QW particularly with the ezQuake port.


What are you going to buy? or you will keep the XG2401 until OLEDs don't suck?

I don't think OLEDs are something to go for now or in general. Burn in is bound to happen and I keep my stuff for longer. I don't want to deal with it, so the only natural continuation of OLED would be microLED, which will fix the burnin and deliver even faster response times, but is pretty far away (dare I even say past this decade) and extremely expensive currently.

From a motion clarity perspective, you have 2 paths to follow if you want to eliminate motion blur (get as good if not better than CRTs):
1.) Strobed
2.) Non-strobed (sample and hold)

Strobing (with low persistence, such as the XG2431 and XL2566K, the best on the market) allow for a motion clarity experience equivalent to a >1000hz refresh rate display (running at 1k FPS) and considering most modern titles are running at low FPS, I find this to be the most optimal path to minimise motion blur.
The XG2431 has a crosstalkless range of 60-120hz, with even 240hz having very minimal crosstalk. (the former with QFT)
The XL2566K has a crosstalkless range of 100-240hz, with DyAC at 360hz being mighty impressive too (the former with QFT)
However, it is not the holy grail. It is merely a band-aid. Eyestrain is a concern and there's still the stroboscopic effect which can only be solved with bruteforcing higher refresh rates. There's also some eyestrain concern with strobing, as it is a bit harsher than CRT strobing.

The unstrobed/sample and hold path would, however, resolve these issues. But, the catch is that frame rate amplification has to take off in a big way for it to be viable. This approach also requires very good hardware, which I lack.

Considering my current lackluster hardware and the fact I cannot run FPS higher than ~240fps on my rig, something like the XG2431 or XL2566K is optimal in my case. I would still opt for a XG2431 though due to the price difference. I cannot justify paying 700€ for a TN panel when there's a 300€ panel doing as good if not a better job than it.

I don't play games such as QL as often however, where capping to 250fps is prefered.

Don't get me wrong, strobing is not a must and both panels perform extremely well in general, so you could run both of them without their respective MBR modes (PureXP/DyAC), but it won't be as clear as with MBR which may or may not be noticable in-game.

Also, in regards to capping, take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73gFgNrYVQ

Thing is, if I update, I want it to be IPS to get better colors and be able to enjoy movies too, but it has to be good for Quake. So now I have:

Asus ROG 360hz PG259QNR 24.5"
Viewsonic XG2431
Asus VG279QM 280Hz

Beside that I cannot see anything else for IPS, except the insane 500hz Alienware but that's probably diminishing returns.

So what would you buy then that's an upgrade from the VG2401?

My biggest concern with IPS is like you mentioned, eyestrain, because with this TN panel I have no problems. I remember CRT's were a PITA, don't wanna go back to that.

[Inco^]

Acer XV252Q F is better and cheaper than PG259QN/R.
Acer XV252Q F has backlight strobing (VRB) at 390Hz. With VRB=Extreme the screen is dim but I got used to it.
PG27AQN is 1440p at 360Hz with ultrafast IPS, with faster pixel transitions than PG259QN/R or XV252Q F, apparently with comparable pixel transitions to XL2566K or AW2524H, but it's expensive.

[masterblaster]

You should also add that Acer 390hz monitor to your list. That one is fairly cheap and probably not too far off from the $800 500hz monitors coming out etc... When you start comparing that, all these new expensive high hertz monitors coming out are definitely not worth the price point. That Acer monitor is huge bang 4 buck. Its only $300 new.

I have both the Viewsonic xg2431 and Acer 390hz monitor. Both are good. The acer 390hz is without a doubt faster and smoother for raw performance. Its pretty crazy how it feels going from any other monitor back to the acer 390hz, you notice the smoothness and fast screen refreshes. I kind of like the xg2431 also because of its smaller size that helps my aim and it has decent stobing. Fairly decent motion handling for a 240hz monitor as well.

Both monitors would be an upgrade to the xg2401. Nice to see someone else with that old school monitor though. I used to have the xg2401 as well. Was a great monitor. There is definitely better out there now. I sold it in 2020 during the pandemic with the idea to upgrade to something new.

My recommendation is go with the Acer 390hz monitor, unless you want the smaller screen size for a reason. The xg2431 is only better if you like smaller screens for aiming etc... Raw performance the Acer 390hz is definitely better but the xg2431 is still good. The viewsonic does have better strobing as well but...It also makes the screen kinda dim.

[quake3]

You should also add that Acer 390hz monitor to your list. That one is fairly cheap and probably not too far off from the $800 500hz monitors coming out etc... When you start comparing that, all these new expensive high hertz monitors coming out are definitely not worth the price point. That Acer monitor is huge bang 4 buck. Its only $300 new.

I have both the Viewsonic xg2431 and Acer 390hz monitor. Both are good. The acer 390hz is without a doubt faster and smoother for raw performance. Its pretty crazy how it feels going from any other monitor back to the acer 390hz, you notice the smoothness and fast screen refreshes. I kind of like the xg2431 also because of its smaller size that helps my aim and it has decent stobing. Fairly decent motion handling for a 240hz monitor as well.

Both monitors would be an upgrade to the xg2401. Nice to see someone else with that old school monitor though. I used to have the xg2401 as well. Was a great monitor. There is definitely better out there now. I sold it in 2020 during the pandemic with the idea to upgrade to something new.

My recommendation is go with the Acer 390hz monitor, unless you want the smaller screen size for a reason. The xg2431 is only better if you like smaller screens for aiming etc... Raw performance the Acer 390hz is definitely better but the xg2431 is still good. The viewsonic does have better strobing as well but...It also makes the screen kinda dim.

Are there anre news on new monitors comming soon? i may wait. Also I have to look up the whole strobbing, crosstalk etc technicisms and understand what it really means. A concern is being dissapointed from the switch from TN to IPS, beside ghosting, that is annoying to the eyes, gives headaches and so on.

[masterblaster]

I mean, the $800 asus 500hz and alienware 500hz monitors are out already. There are some other ones coming soon but I don't really keep up on it. All the new OLED are kind of the new thing, but they arnt worth $1000.... My acer 390hz in actual real world gameplay is going to be the same or close to the same performance as any 500hz ips or 240hz OLED. You always pay early adopter tax for jumping on new tech... Always remember that.

I paid $200 for my Acer 390hz monitor so, I have no plans on buying anything new anytime soon unless it drops significantly in price.

If youre looking to stick with TN panels, honestly the only thing you should be looking at is the zowie 360hz xl2566k. I dont know what else in the TN area is worth it. But again, that monitor is also a ripoff at $600... Youre literally paying $300-400 just for dyac....

There are 540hz TN panels being released at some point if they arnt out already. Asus is doing one. Not sure if thats worth waiting for... I am sure they will be charging $600-800 for it....

[quake3]

I mean, the $800 asus 500hz and alienware 500hz monitors are out already. There are some other ones coming soon but I don't really keep up on it. All the new OLED are kind of the new thing, but they arnt worth $1000.... My acer 390hz in actual real world gameplay is going to be the same or close to the same performance as any 500hz ips or 240hz OLED. You always pay early adopter tax for jumping on new tech... Always remember that.

I paid $200 for my Acer 390hz monitor so, I have no plans on buying anything new anytime soon unless it drops significantly in price.

If youre looking to stick with TN panels, honestly the only thing you should be looking at is the zowie 360hz xl2566k. I dont know what else in the TN area is worth it. But again, that monitor is also a ripoff at $600... Youre literally paying $300-400 just for dyac....

There are 540hz TN panels being released at some point if they arnt out already. Asus is doing one. Not sure if thats worth waiting for... I am sure they will be charging $600-800 for it....

I want a major upgrade in color quality next time I upgrade from VG2401, so it has to be IPS or OLED, and it has to be 24-25" because beyond that fork a desk is too big.

The Acer, the base looks kinda like weak plastic? is it good? also can you remove the Acer logo? and can you disable the led?

What about the MSI in here? I like the simple design with no logos or distracting stuff:
https://blurbusters.com/360-hz-monitor- ... g253r-etc/

Is there like an spreadsheet or something to quickly compare relevant stuff vs other monitors? what should you be looking at when comparing monitors?

I was looking at this thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6666
And they rated the Asus VG259qm bigly, but they stopped updating the thread, so I never saw a faceoff vs 360hz ones.


Also, im going to post the findings of a quake player commenting various monitors:

Omen x25 1080x240, very good response time without MBR

XL2546K " " nice for cs and pubg due to vibrance settings and customizability. Always been a Dyac enjoyer. Slight input lag penalty for nice clear motion ingame if you have solid framerate.

Omen X27 1440x240 TN. Has bad coating and headache inducing PWM. Had to return. Was pretty good otherwise.

Pg279qm 1440x240 [have not tried these]
VG27AQM 1440x240
^ these seem to have excellent colors and decent response times for IPS. They're slightly slower than the x27 which is a TN which was good enough 95% of the time unless people are ramming their dodge Keys. Became a bit blurry in that case.

VG279QM. Best IPS i tested. OC's to 280 but felt better at 240hz. Had no input latency at all. Felt CRT like snappy. 27" 1080p though, you'd have to accept it not being sharp. Think most quake players would like this one. I just prefer TN, just better response times. IPS monitors certainly feel less input laggy though, especially this one.

XG258Q. Shit motion response and colors but same level of snappiness compared to the VG279QM. Doesnt really have blur but a lot of overshoot. Doesnt matter much if u get used to it. 1080x240 TN

AW2518H. Very good response times and decent colors for first gen TN. Reminds me of the x25 Omen. Easy to pick up 2nd hand cheap nowadays. Not the snappiest inputwise but it makes up in motion clarity.

Just check blur busters forum and rtings website for review and testing.

I tried the monitors I mentioned and many more. These are the only ones I can recommend that are still being sold.

Honorable mentions, get these if cheap 2nd hand or on sale:
Xv272, low input lag decent colors. Cheap. Decent response time.

Xl2546, nice with dyac. Decent without dyac. Worth 20 02nd hand or cheaper. Bit laggy

PG258Q. Goes very bright. Good pixel response time. Input laggy. But some of the best OD tuning of 1st gen. Was really easy to LG people with 237 framecap + gsync and vsync ON in QL. 200-225 max

XF250Q: 150-175 max


Avoid:
Xf252Q good pixel response time but felt very input laggy.
AW2521hf. Trash motion clarity
Aoc 24g2zu, awful motion clarity (its a crime)

Probably forgetting a few.



I'd avoid all the 360/390 IPS stuff. Too blurry.

On 360 monitors:

Haven't tried them personally. But from what I can see in the reviews their 'total' response times are around the 6ms mark which is well above twice the refresh window of 360 hz (2.77ms) which would lead to smear/blur during fast pace action/movement.

It wouldn't be a major drawback most of the time, but in important situations like having to track fast moving opponents either when they're doging/strafing real fast in a 1v1 situation or flying through the air is going to possibly hamper your performance and inhibit your efficiency of pin-pointing the targets 'exact' location.

Granted, the input latency and high refresh rate will make the games feel snappy and very smooth. So it's a trade-off to what you feel is more important to you. I'd still take a solid 240hz TN over a 240/360hz IPS if I was playing for money or in a hyper competitive setting.