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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 14:54
by Erecshyrinol
I'm sorry to say, but I won't be able to provide v7 firmware. I couldn't arrange meeting up with a friend who has a Ubuntu laptop before I had to return this monitor and give up on the 2430 entirely. Nobody's really missing out on anything though, I haven't observed anything different compared to what I've read about v4 and newer. They never fixed a terrible profile bug or the Color Vibrance setting (I'll get to these later on in the post) or anything relevant, really. I don't think they even changed anything other than adding the word "Zowie" to the factory menu.

I had to give up on it because it had visible horizontal scanlines at 120hz and 144hz. I've compared it to another unit in the store today and I was shocked to find out it too had the same problem, although slightly less visible. At first I thought I could get used to these and I even found them kind of cool, but I soon realized they're just plain annoying. I've asked for my money back and will probably be returning to the 24GM77 and giving up on strobing.

At this point, I'm beginning to believe all new monitors with this panel are RMA'd panels repackaged and sold because the industry is finally moving on to new panels. I've recently seen a BenQ employee confirm they're releasing new monitors very soon with higher than 144hz refresh rates which only raises my suspicion.

phpBB [video]

Here are the summary of my findings on the XL2430. Perhaps somebody will find this info useful:

- This monitor is completely useless without an ICC profile. Unless you enjoy completely lethargic, pale colors. You cannot use the "Color Vibrance" feature to fix this because it severely crushes the tail end of dark and bright shades. While this is kind of cool for certain games, it's clearly a big issue and I can't really buy that it was intentionally designed this way. With Gamma mode 5, a correct ICC profile and Color Vibrance set to 10 (off) the picture quality is actually very good (within that small head-on cone that TN viewing angles permits -- and of course, within the constraints of poor TN black levels), but not all games will dance correctly with ICC -- or at all. This in mind, I think not allowing more control over color calibration via OSD is a huge mistake on BenQ's part. The panel has what it takes, they just need to let you unleash it's power.

- With Blur Reduction enabled, the monitor uses a unique AMA High setting that is less severe than the same setting with BBR off. This is no different from any other XL monitor from what I've heard. What is unique about the 2430 is that this setting is even less severe than the XL2411z for example. Perhaps the new "Zowie" XL2411 sees the same improvement. I've considered taking a photo of this, but djriful already did some time ago:

The photo is very accurate and it does look like this in real life. I think this is why the "AMA Low" toggle mode doesn't really do anything perceptible - the bug that caused it to trigger on earlier models will net you the same value the XL2430 features by default. Or roughly the same, in any case. In practice, I really had to go out of my way to look for any ghosting while playing Overwatch and when I did notice it, it was really a non-issue. I will compare this to the 24GM77's Motion 240 mode, where ghosting was clearly visible. In addition (on the LG), the colors banded together with Motion 240 on giving a weird painted-on look. Crosstalk was a huge issue as well because you couldn't change it's position because the strobe is not configurable. And finally, you can't do any VT tweaking on the LG to improve crosstalk. It's kind of useless, really. BBR is amazing in comparison.

You can use the AMA setting for BBR off by exploiting the profile bug as described in Falk's sticky.

- Any "Picture Mode" setting other than Standard causes severe banding of low and high shades, even if you set "Color Vibrance" to it's default "10". Only under Standard, with "Color Vibrance" set to 10 will you get a proper picture.

- You can save and load profiles like you would on any other BenQ XL, but loading a profile will cause the same banding described above. So whenever you load a profile, you have to manually set the "Picture Mode" to Standard again. As far as I know, this is an issue unique to the 2430. So much for the convenience of the S Switch.

If you are considering this monitor, only do so if you really, really care about BenQ Blur Reduction. Because if you're not going to be using this feature, you're better off with a monitor like the 24GM77 which looks good out of the box (within TN limits) without the need for an ICC profile -- *and* it allows very detailed color calibration via OSD so you'll never need to resort to calibration via ICC/Windows. If you go for the XL2430, be prepared for scanlines and return the monitors until you can't see them at 144hz. The faint scanlines I saw at 120 and 144hz became glaringly obvious with clock increases necessary for VT tweaks.

In Overwatch, I found BBR allows for a much better oversight of the situation -- sometimes, in the thick of it, it's possible to get lost in this game. With BBR on, this never happened to me, I always knew exactly which character is which and where they are and I could clearly read their animations to determine exactly what they are doing. However, I found my aim, especially with McRee was simply better at 144hz with BBR Off. Keep this in mind, because you can't really use BBR under 144hz. Sure, you can try, but the crosstalk is too severe which defeats the point of BBR. Also, I think the slight increase in input lag inherent to BBR at any setting other than Intensity=25 may be contributing to a less fluid feeling. I can't claim this with complete confidence though.

OLED when.

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 15:12
by Falkentyne
The good old profile low level calibration bug :(

The reason why it's happening is, when you save a profile to Gamer 1, Gamer 2 and Gamer 3 presets, all you are doing is saving the current settings you are using into a "hardwired FPS1, FPS2 and RTS". Gamer 1, 2 and 3 are hardwired to low level color calibration settings for FPS1, FPS2 and RTS modes, instead of using the original preset you saved and overwriting it completely.

On the XL2411, XL2420 and XL2720Z, Gamer 1, Gamer 2 and Gamer 3 would default to FPS1, FPS2 and RTS after a hard reset to defaults, or a firmware flash, but if you saved Standard Mode into Gamer 1, for example, and Photo Mode into Gamer 2, then Gamer1 would become a complete copy of Standard mode, and Gamer 2 would become a complete copy of Photo mode, with the original "FPS1 and FPS2" low level presets being erased.

On the XL2430, if you save Standard Mode's settings into Gamer 1, then Gamer 1 gets "Recalled" with FPS1 mode low level settings, using the presets values you had saved from Standard Mode.

This is a huge design error.

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 15:33
by Erecshyrinol
The fact that they still persist in not fixing this and that they charge so much money for monitor upgrades "huge" into a "humongous, brazen, lazy, amateur design error".

You don't even have to be interested in having a different preset for different games. Perhaps all you want to do is exploit the profile bug to use a reasonable AMA setting for BBR Off. It could be a one button operation but instead you have to fiddle through the menu. But come to think of it, it's kind of sad you have to use the profile bug in the first place.

There are way too many problems with this monitor to justify it's price. To justify any price, really.

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 15:48
by Falkentyne
Erecshyrinol, can you do a big favor for me?

Can you call Benq at their 888 number, and when you reach someone (they should answer quickly because I just got off the phone with them), please ask them to transfer you over to Robert.

Once you reach Robert, please explain the situation with the XL2430T profile gamer 1-2-3 bug (don't mention the blur reduction AMA toggles) with FPS1, FPS2 and RTS mode LOW LEVEL CALIBRATIONS not being overwritten by the preset being saved, and explain that the XL2420Z, XL2411Z and XL2720Z handled this correctly.

This change may have been intentional but it was a huge blunder, causing a big reduction in IQ for anyone using gamer presets, and a firmware update needs to be released to REVERT this change back to how the "1.0" blur reduction monitors handled the gamer presets. AT the very least, the LEAST they can do is something HALF reasonable like have Gamer 1 default to Standard Mode's low level settings (e.g. not changing Cyan into Teal), Gamer 2 default to FPS2 and Gamer 3 into RTS. But that's still rather silly, since there is NO explanation as to why saving a preset from a DIFFERENT mode causes it to be stored into the FPS modes to begin with!


Explain this to Robert, then ask him if he can transfer you to their engineering department or give them a direct contact number for you to reach their engineers. EVEN IF IT'S IN TAIWAN.

Also explain that you are from the blurbusters' website.

I'm going to send a PM to Chief Blur Buster with what I'm asking here because this is a huge design *BLUNDER*.
Especially since the WORKING XL2420Z has been discontinued.....

I don't want to deal with this (not only because I don't have a XL2430T), but I tried to get them to fix the 100hz strobing in the XL2730Z monitor, and the engineer explained that this could not be addressed by a firmware update.

Worth noting that unless it's a typo, the XL2735 has a "Realtek 2796BF" chip rather than a "2796B" chip?

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 17:15
by Erecshyrinol
I asked for Robert but he was busy so I explained the problem to a guy called Shawn. I don't think Robert was avoiding calls because at one point during the conversation, Shawn (on his own volition, I didn't press him any further for Robert) checked again to see if Robert was available, but apparently he was still busy. Shawn asked some routine questions like "Are you sure this isn't an issue inherent to TN panels" and "Do you notice this problem in-game?" and I clarified on all accounts and made sure to mention that I'm using V7 "Zowie" edition firmware.

He said they're gonna try to pitch this to engineering which I found an interesting choice of words. If fixing glaring issues like these takes serious "pitching" I can't really be bothered explaining to engineering what it is, so I didn't ask to be transferred to them. I'm not sure if this is in Shawn's job description, let alone mine. I'm just honestly not interested in lecturing Taiwanese engineers on how they should do their job. After all, I'm done with the XL2430, I don't even own the monitor anymore. And even if they fixed this issue in particular, I wouldn't buy it again because I would still have to rely on ICC profiles for decent color reproduction. And I know they won't fix out-of-the-box calibration because BenQ actually provides a very good ICC profile on the CD. So they're aware and it's intentional. Meanwhile, on the 24GM77:

BenQ should understand that "professional eSports equipment" means giving as much power/options to the user as possible and not deciding on their own what the user's demands will be. They clearly follow this reasoning with BBR by allowing us to tweak it unlike other companies and this is commendable. Now if they could only carry it over to color calibration, that would be swell. I know very few monitors allow in-depth color calibration via the OSD, but very few monitors come out of the box looking like a '70s polaroid.

He thanked me for bringing attention to this issue and asked for my email address so they can update me on how it goes. The pitching to engineering, I assume. If they send anything, I'll post it here.

Helping out BenQ for the good of the entire gaming community is cool and all, but honestly man, this is the seventh firmware so far. Somebody's not paying QA enough over there. Even if we're calling in and even if Shawn and Robert are listening, I think there's only so much they can do. Engineering should have noticed this on their own by now.

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 19:06
by Falkentyne
Thank you!

Well I did ask someone to get Benq to hire me. I just don't know anyone who can get me involved, besides Chief blur buster. Believe me, if I were working there, you wouldn't have monitors with buggy firmware being released. My extreme OCD would make sure everything is actually working.

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 19:59
by Erecshyrinol
Falkentyne wrote:Thank you!

Well I did ask someone to get Benq to hire me. I just don't know anyone who can get me involved, besides Chief blur buster. Believe me, if I were working there, you wouldn't have monitors with buggy firmware being released. My extreme OCD would make sure everything is actually working.

Man, honestly, find a way to get a QA position there. If not that, then at least tech support. I mean, you are already internet's de facto tech support for the XL line and you don't see a dime from BenQ.

Chief, come on, help Falk out so he can help everybody else.

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2016, 20:48
by Falkentyne
I'd jump on a test QA position even if it were free. If they saw my work was valuable and I was helping them and fixing bugs, they might snatch me up and I would have a job and a nice Benq shirt and then start getting paid :)

Then I could travel to Taiwan and pick up a girlfriend too! :)

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 04 Oct 2016, 18:50
by SpaceTime
New to the forum, and joined after reading this thread. I have two boys (twins) who like to PC / console game, and I built gamer PC's for them a couple of years ago. (3570K, ASUS Z77 MB, recent SSD install...)

I recently decided to upgrade them to the GTX 1070's as their respective GTX 760 and Radeon 7870 was showing its age on some of the newer titles they were liking, and as such decided to buy 144hz monitors to take advantage of the 1070 power. I did a few days of researching monitors, and was having trouble making a decision - so yesterday I brought home three to test out - an LG 24GM77, a Benq XL2430t, and and ASUS VG248qe (the ASUS mainly because I got the ASUS for $219 on sale. From what I could tell, the Benq and LG are touted as a notch above due to features, etc.... but wanted to see how the ASUS stacked up for something at that price point)

At this point, I have one computer on the bench with the 1070 installed / working, and two monitors active - one the Benq, the other the LG. We are testing them on Doom, GTA V and other titles, running some Valley Benchmarks, tinkering with overclocking and testing from an install, fps, perspective - all went well. But setting up, calibrating, adjusting the monitors was interesting, especially the Benq. That forced me to do a little more reading, research and then stumbled on this thread.....

... and now I am saying "uh-oh"....

I have Firmware V006, I bought this monitor from Fry's Electronics in the Phoenix area yesterday. After trying out the LG, and being very impressed by the out of the box settings, and how easily we were able to get a nice, bright, crisp experience with both gaming and Windows general usage... then taking more time to tinker with the Benq, scratching my head a bit, tinkering again... I a wondering now if I made a bad decision with the Benq, and after reading this thread, wonder if I am "chasing a ghost" and maybe I should just return the Benq in favor of another LG, or maybe even the ASUS.

I will say I am a little disappointed after reading the findings in this thread, and want to also add a big "thank you" to those that have contributed to this thread, and candidly providing the facts / data in a unemotional fashion, and letting the results speak for themselves.

I will say I have tried things the were recommended, like keeping Vibrance at 10, saving everything to Standard mode, not saving to the Gamer profiles... and think I have had some evidence of success.... but sitting here thinking that I sure spent a lot of coin for a bunch of features that may not work, and have cycled back to a method that other much cheaper monitors feature for the price I paid... if that makes sense. Note I did not install Display pilot, did not install any Tweaks, all settings were done OSD with no ICC, and running on the V6 firmware it came with. I only installed the drivers that came with the monitor on the disk.

What does the prevailing wisdom here recommend - I have a chance to return this, do I just run away while I can? Then just be happy with another LG 24GM77?? (btw, today the LG is $279 at BH). I like Benq, and any company is capable of having a lemon among the product lines... and I also wonder how much investment of their limited resources are they going to provide to fixing these issues on a 1080p monitor that is close to being phased out....

Thanks in advance for anything you can provide, and being patient with a new member who may have jumped right to the point without too much formality, or any Hello's.... ;-)

Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

PostPosted: 04 Oct 2016, 19:02
by Falkentyne
Hi, I'll give you the TL:DR answer.

If you want blur reduction and the best backlight strobing, e.g. if you could not handle moving from CRT to LCD, the xl2430t is a decent monitor and in that case better than the lg 24gm77, once all tweaks are applied. But you are gimped by not being able to use the gamer presets without being forced into low level FPS1, FPS2 and RTS game modes.

The xl2720z is overall a better monitor than the xl2430t because the gamer presets actually work and save/load correctly.

If you are not interested in adjustable blur reduction, the LG24GM77 is a better overall bet and you still get a blur reduction mode.

The VG248QE is old. Better to use its successor, the PG248Q or the Dell S2417DG (I forgot if this is the name, but it's 24" 1440p, with gsync and ULMB).