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Benq XL2430T Settings

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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby SpaceTime » 04 Oct 2016, 19:07

Thanks for the quick reply Falkentyne...

... I wanted to add I did not buy the Zowie version of the 2430t - after I posted, I was just reading another thread where you mentioned the ZOwie version of the newer 2430t has the latest firmware, and all the bugs are fixed? Maybe I am missing the whole picture though... which is entirely possible. A week ago, I knew nothing about any of this, now I am learning by the minute....

Thanks.
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby SpaceTime » 04 Oct 2016, 19:27

Falkentyne - in response to your 2720z recommendation - that one was on my short list, and kept coming back to that as a choice. It is not lost on me that you own one also.... a couple of things that eliminated when I picked out the three monitors I did - first, desk space - my boys are going to go dual monitors, the new 144hz + their current 4 year old ASUS 238 TN's (a good ol 2ms monitor). Plus, I could not help but be influenced by the large contingent of "27in 1080p naysayers" out there and their stretched pixel claims.... although I do realize some of that large and aggressive contingent may have an agenda to pump newer, 1440p monitors and move the masses away from 1080p... but I have been accused of being cynical.

THe Fry's I bought the 2430t from has the 2720Z set up next to the 2411Z and 2430T.... and all the way up to the point of purchase I was asking my wife "are we sure we shouldn't get the 2720Z 27"?" I was doubting it all the way to the end, mainly due to the propagated myths around that size being non-optimal for 1080p. However, I will say there are a lot of positive reviews about this monitor, and the fact you own one also is working in its favor.... ;-)

Anyway, just sharing my inner thought process, and mulling over the best next step....

EDIT: w/regard to the LG24GM77 - doesn't that also have a slight edge in color reproduction over the Benq 24 / 2720 in that it is a true 8 bit implementation? Not sure if adjustable blur reduction is a deal breaker... but now I am thinking about both the 2720 and the LG 24G - remember, I have TWO sons' who need a monitor - and one is attached to the Benq idea due to the cool factor / build of the 2430t, and the other has latched on to the LG. So, I could get one of each... and find a way to make the 2720 "fit"
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby Falkentyne » 04 Oct 2016, 21:29

The LG 24GM77 is the EXACT SAME panel as in the Benq XL2420Z, XL2411Z, Asus VG248QE, and many other monitors. 6 bit+FRC. Panel is AUO M240HW01 V8.

The reason it has 'better' color quality has to do with when the dithering occurs. But this only applies if you do NOT change any color settings and only use the defaults. If you do change the settings, the color can actually show BANDING and be worse than the Vg248qe and XL2420Z. (the XL2420Z, which is discontinued, has better color quality than the XL2411Z, even though the panel is the same, the presets are calibrated better, since it is a 'higher end' monitor). The XL2430T would normally look the same as the XL2420Z, if not for the bugs in the firmware from Benq changing the "classic" settings that came over from the old XL2420TE series, and adding new things that took multiple firmware updates to fix, and which still have bugs (Color Vibrance, Gamer 1/2/3 presets, etc).

http://display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/LG_24GM77

if you read some of the 24GM77 old threads on this forum, you will see many people complaining about banding, and that they couldn't get rid of it. You will have to do some searching in the General section for those old threads about the banding issue. But it was only Strobemaster who found out why.

To be honest, the only two monitors I would recommend at this point, are: if you wanted Gsync, either the new Dell TN 27" or 24" monitors (you also get ULMB, AND if you are willing to spend $120 on a 3d vision 2 kit, you can exploit a firmware bug which will allow GSYNC AND ULMB to run at the EXACT SAME TIME). No other monitors allow this to happen.

or the Benq XL2720Z, since you get displayport, 60hz-144hz blur reduction, VT tweaks via custom resolutions to lower strobe crosstalk, a hidden "AMA" low mode, and a very important and REQUIRED to use AMA low "profile bug switch" that you MUST use if blur reduction is disabled, otherwise the overdrive ghosting is atrocious if blur reduction is disabled.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby SpaceTime » 04 Oct 2016, 22:02

Falkentyne -

First off, your patience is amazing, and your willingness to help is recognized and very appreciated. I read further across this forum in the last couple of hours and seen you have shared this same information with others when they asked, and again with me....

Again, after posting, I read the other posts here on BB and DID find that the LG was not an 8 bit panel as has been touted in other forums / resources (it was one of your older posts that I learned this from), but a 6 + 2 just like the other 24" panels. What is really disappointing about all of this is the amount of MIS-information on monitors across the net.... for instance, Tom's hardware review of the LG 24Gm77 makes no mistake about calling the LG panel an 8 bit VERY clearly in their specs table, and where I got the information. Among other places....

Here is where my head is at, and my next step will require "lowering" my standard just a bit obviously. I don't mind trying out the 2720Z, and thinking now I will buy ONE of them at least. But I don't think I would put all my eggs in one basket and buy TWO of them, one for each son. Next, I don't want (or need for our requirements) to pay up for a G-sync monitor, I am fine saving the $$ without needing any G or Free sync'ing.... plus, one of my sons' just does not want a 27" monitor, and has made it clear 24" is the size of choice.

ON that vane, If you had to pick ONE of these 24" panels (that all use the same underlying panel) - which one is the least of the evils, is the best implementation, and would be the best choice? Sounds like the ASUS VG248QE is out, as it probably the bottom of the heap as it's the oldest, and the 2420Z is out since it is discontinued. Then, it sounds like a "why buy the current Benq XL2430T with < V6" given the firmware issues and the fact the bugs still are not fixed? So that leaves:

1) The ZOWIE XL2430 (note they don't use the T anymore in the product name) - if they truly fixed the bugs, and it comes with a version 7 FW, I (and more importantly my son) likes the features on the monitor (S switch, ports, headphone hanger, build), and if it actually works as advertised, and they really fixed all the problems, I could deal with that. It would only cost $14 more than the current XL2430T with all the bugs.

-OR-

2) The LG 24GM77, as although it is the same panel as many in this class, it seems to be a fair implementation comparatively color-wise, and from what I have seen using / testing, it is not half bad....

Yeah, I know you already said you wouldn't choose either, but if you had to pick one in ADDITION TO the 2720Z.... and HAD to pick one....

Thanks in advance Falkentyne.
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby Falkentyne » 04 Oct 2016, 22:21

Version 7 firmware is identical to V6. The only difference is the name change.
No bugs fixed whatsoever.

The XL2720Z is only for CRT lovers who can't handle sample and hold motion blur on LCD screens.

If blur reduction is *disabled*, the XL2720Z has MUCH better overdrive mode than the XL2430T due to being able to exploit a firmware bug to a much stronger degree on it, so never choose the XL2430T over the XL2720Z if you intend to NOT use blur reduction.

(Enable blur reduction, set AMA to high by activating the hidden ama "low" setting by setting AMA to high after enabling blur reduction, then, finally, switch directly into a preset or gamer preset that already has blur reduction disabled. Do NOT disable blur reduction via the on/off setting in the OSD).

And to answer your question, I really don't know. I guess the XL2430T, but your question is difficult to answer. I suggest you ask Strobemaster or send him a PM (if you have enough posts to use the PM feature) to ask him if the banding issue on the LG 24GM77 is a deal breaker or not. I don't have this monitor.
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby SpaceTime » 04 Oct 2016, 22:39

Interesting that V7 is V6 with a new name (Zowie)... thanks for the point of education, you just drove that point home and was not aware. I actually thought from reading other threads that the Zowie V7 was going to fix the bugs in the current 2430T, but sad to hear that is not the case.

As far as blur reduction - it will be my son using it, and after talking with him, and from my own assessment, I would probably just leave blur reduction on at all times with either the 2430t or the 2720Z... to me, the blur reduction is the attraction and the reason to buy these Benq monitors, even for general usage, and turning it on / off constantly between gaming or general use does not seem feasible. Especially since it will be more of a pain if you are only using one mode (Standard) since the Gaming presets get saved as the FPS and RTS at the lowest levels.

What's funny is now that I talk my way through all the options, I see what a mess this whole segment of 24" monitors is ;-) and why many just pay up for g-sync and better implementations like the Dell. I was really starting to pin my hopes on spending $14 more for the ZOwie 2430 and fixing the issues, but it sounds like the 2430T V6 I have no is virtually the same.

Falkentyne, thanks again (and again) for all your help, now I need to sleep on it, and think about next steps. I have a LG and BenQ sitting on the bench in my shop right now.... and in the bigger picture they are fine monitors compared to what I have.... at the very least I think there will be the 2720Z in my future, then consider what to do from there.....

Cheers
Last edited by SpaceTime on 05 Oct 2016, 21:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby SpaceTime » 05 Oct 2016, 18:59

Erecshyrinol wrote:At this point, I'm beginning to believe all new monitors with this panel are RMA'd panels repackaged and sold because the industry is finally moving on to new panels. I've recently seen a BenQ employee confirm they're releasing new monitors very soon with higher than 144hz refresh rates which only raises my suspicion.

Here are the summary of my findings on the XL2430. Perhaps somebody will find this info useful:

- This monitor is completely useless without an ICC profile. Unless you enjoy completely lethargic, pale colors. You cannot use the "Color Vibrance" feature to fix this because it severely crushes the tail end of dark and bright shades. While this is kind of cool for certain games, it's clearly a big issue and I can't really buy that it was intentionally designed this way. With Gamma mode 5, a correct ICC profile and Color Vibrance set to 10 (off) the picture quality is actually very good (within that small head-on cone that TN viewing angles permits -- and of course, within the constraints of poor TN black levels), but not all games will dance correctly with ICC -- or at all. This in mind, I think not allowing more control over color calibration via OSD is a huge mistake on BenQ's part. The panel has what it takes, they just need to let you unleash it's power.

- With Blur Reduction enabled, the monitor uses a unique AMA High setting that is less severe than the same setting with BBR off. This is no different from any other XL monitor from what I've heard. What is unique about the 2430 is that this setting is even less severe than the XL2411z for example. Perhaps the new "Zowie" XL2411 sees the same improvement. I've considered taking a photo of this, but djriful already did some time ago:

http://i.imgur.com/MZCvJtN.jpg

The photo is very accurate and it does look like this in real life. I think this is why the "AMA Low" toggle mode doesn't really do anything perceptible - the bug that caused it to trigger on earlier models will net you the same value the XL2430 features by default. Or roughly the same, in any case. In practice, I really had to go out of my way to look for any ghosting while playing Overwatch and when I did notice it, it was really a non-issue. I will compare this to the 24GM77's Motion 240 mode, where ghosting was clearly visible. In addition (on the LG), the colors banded together with Motion 240 on giving a weird painted-on look. Crosstalk was a huge issue as well because you couldn't change it's position because the strobe is not configurable. And finally, you can't do any VT tweaking on the LG to improve crosstalk. It's kind of useless, really. BBR is amazing in comparison.

You can use the AMA setting for BBR off by exploiting the profile bug as described in Falk's sticky.

- Any "Picture Mode" setting other than Standard causes severe banding of low and high shades, even if you set "Color Vibrance" to it's default "10". Only under Standard, with "Color Vibrance" set to 10 will you get a proper picture.

- You can save and load profiles like you would on any other BenQ XL, but loading a profile will cause the same banding described above. So whenever you load a profile, you have to manually set the "Picture Mode" to Standard again. As far as I know, this is an issue unique to the 2430. So much for the convenience of the S Switch.

If you are considering this monitor, only do so if you really, really care about BenQ Blur Reduction. Because if you're not going to be using this feature, you're better off with a monitor like the 24GM77 which looks good out of the box (within TN limits) without the need for an ICC profile -- *and* it allows very detailed color calibration via OSD so you'll never need to resort to calibration via ICC/Windows. If you go for the XL2430, be prepared for scanlines and return the monitors until you can't see them at 144hz. The faint scanlines I saw at 120 and 144hz became glaringly obvious with clock increases necessary for VT tweaks.

In Overwatch, I found BBR allows for a much better oversight of the situation -- sometimes, in the thick of it, it's possible to get lost in this game. With BBR on, this never happened to me, I always knew exactly which character is which and where they are and I could clearly read their animations to determine exactly what they are doing. However, I found my aim, especially with McRee was simply better at 144hz with BBR Off. Keep this in mind, because you can't really use BBR under 144hz. Sure, you can try, but the crosstalk is too severe which defeats the point of BBR. Also, I think the slight increase in input lag inherent to BBR at any setting other than Intensity=25 may be contributing to a less fluid feeling. I can't claim this with complete confidence though.

OLED when.


The characterization above would best match my thoughts after a couple of weeks of researching, then 3 days and MANY hours of attempting to configure the XL2430T. I appreciate the honesty and candor of this assessment / conclusion. It is tough to find enough honesty about products on the web these days, and if I had found more of the "straight up" assessments like this, I would have never purchased the XL2430T. The problem is the truth these days with respect to things like this are so few and far between, and get buried, that when you read them during the research phase, you are not sure if you should believe them!! There was so much positive press about the XL2430T across the net when I researched it, I would have never expected the reality to be so far from the truth. It is literally night and day the marketing of this monitor compared to the reality of what it really is when you get it on your desktop and attempt to use it as it was advertised.

I have also been configuring / setting up an LG 24GM77 and an ASUS VG248QE simultaneously with the BenQ XL 2430T, and I will say I truly appreciate how SIMPLE these other monitors set up and work in comparison to the BenQ. As an engineer, I appreciate all the features and potential the BenQ has, but potential has to be realized for it to be rated well. The fact the monitor is bug ridden out of the box, and can't even save it's own configurations successfully make this monitor a non-starter, and a non-keeper. Let's not even consider why the engineers at BenQ could not configure the monitor at some reasonable setting out of the box. Then scratch our heads as to how and why a monitor that can't save its own configuration successfully passed QA and was released.... I am 53 years old, have a degree in Comp Sci, minor in Math, been working in the Computer industry for 30 years around software, hardware development, QA and Test - virtually all aspects of the product lifecycle - and simply don't appreciate the amount of time I wasted on this monitor due to outright unacceptable bugs it has.

An analogy that comes to mind with the XL2430T - it is like buying a new car, then have to swap out the engine to make it run successfully, and even then with the new engine - although you might step on the gas pedal, don't be surprised if it activates the brake, or maybe turns on the radio. That is how I feel about the BenQ after my christening with the 2430T. Kind of a shame, it was my first foray into BenQ, and it may have soured me on the brand, even though they may have some other very fine products out there. Some are recommending trying out the XL2720Z, but at this point, I am gun shy and don't need to be surprised again. Let's face it - the XL2720Z is right next to the 2430T on Tom's Hardware on the "Top Gaming Monitor" recommendations, so why should I trust that too?

I had high hopes for the XL2430T, but having to have a degree in Monitorology, and have to spend long hours understanding "Tweaks", tinkering with configurations, understanding how to work around Vibrance, Eqaualizer bugs, what to set and not set, crosstalk due to BBR, etc, etc, etc, etc is really ridiculous.

What is most frustrating, is I typically do A LOT OF RESEARCH on everything I buy - and this was no exception. Check out the normal channels - Tom's Hardware's glowing reviews, all the reviews on NewEgg, Amazon, BH, etc, etc. Read the forums. 99% of what is out there did not say anything about all the problems I experienced, and the less than acceptable performance of this monitor to what it could be if it worked correctly. I literally stumbled on this site / thread AFTER I was left scratching my head trying to set up the monitor, and wondered why when I saved a Standard configuration as Gamer 1, that the result looked so much different than the Standard configuration I just saved and was identical.

Well, now I know, I didn't need to test my sanity - the monitor is bug ridden.

I am personally returning mine - your mileage may vary as the reader - and you may choose to spend hours and hours trying to understand all the issues and workarounds, all the tweaks, etc you have to install... but not for me. I appreciate how other simpler monitors just work and are much simpler to use.

Cheers.
Last edited by SpaceTime on 06 Oct 2016, 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby lexlazootin » 06 Oct 2016, 00:13

Haha SpaceTime, I'm SO happy I'm not the only one.

Benq is a joke. I felt literally repulsed the first time i plug in my fancy new Benq XL2420G. Pretty much everything about the monitor was bad. The default configuration was bad, the overdrive was bad, the SRGB was bad, everything had a red hue and the yellows were washed out when you did use SRGB, it was horrible.

When i first saw the overdrive options i thought my monitor was missing a 'Medium' setting. 'Low' was too low and "High" was too high. (Funny enough i still believe this might be true.)

I thought that it was a mistake or i was missing something. how on earth can i spend $700AUD on a monitor + $100AUD shipping it from US to Australia to receive this piece of shit? Are all online reviews stupid or blind as a bat?

I was just so just so burned with my purchase. I thought i would have to sell it or something. It wasn't till i got myself a Nvidia card and plug in to the DP port (G-Sync Chip) that every single problem went away. I don't know what Nvidia did, but Benq are complete idiots.

Sorry to be all salty, but it's just SO much money to receive such a shitty monitor.

I took some photos of the AMA comparison between the two chips: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2795
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby SpaceTime » 06 Oct 2016, 10:16

I really wanted the XL2430T to work out, I like all the features it has and was excited to see the results of the Blur Reduction improvements over the limited Lightboost. I truly thought after my hours of researching these 24" 1080p monitors that the BenQ was going to be the best, the ace in the hole, and how would the others stack up against it. I am shocked by this outcome, especially after everything the internet fed me about the 2430T. (on the topic of how useless the net is becoming for facts - go read Tom's Hardware review of the LG 24GM77, and see how they call the LG 8 bit panel. Not 6 +2 like the BenQ, they call the LG 8bit in the summary table, and call it out in the text. Do you think they just didn't know? And if they didn't, what does that say?)

In reality - all these 24" monitors use the same panels - the XL2411Z, the LG, ASUS, etc, etc - so the only thing that separates these monitors or what makes one stand apart are the features. The 2411Z was a non-starter with no DP, and I loved the extra features of the LG and 2430T with the USB ports, headphone jacks. And the configurable Blur Reduction on the 2430T seemed to be the kicker. But, at the end of the day what matters most is the picture you see on the screen - and let's face it - with the same panel there is only so much you can do to call one "better" than the other (other than marketing and hype). Which, in that vane, I could never seem to get the 2430T tuned enough to compete picture-wise with the ASUS or LG - the only time it came close was when I turned all the features off (like Blur Reduction) and that defeated the purpose of why I bought the monitor.

Plus, I was not going to go down the path of having to install Tweaks to get the monitor to where it should be out of the box - to me that says I am buying the car, but it needs a new engine to work... I don't like completing the job the engineers / testers at BenQ should have done before releasing the product. The fact you have to spend hours up front with Tweaks and unexpected settings means you don't have a polished product. None of the other monitors require so much up front re-engineering / tuning to get them to work acceptably.

I am starting to feel better about my choices - the BenQ 2430T cost $345 and I got the ASUS for $230 on sale. To me, the BenQ is not worth $115 more than the ASUS. Especially when you have to use the BenQ in Standard mode only since saving presets does not work anyway, so all of the extra "features" you are paying for just evaporate with all the bugs. Makes the choice rather easy.
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Re: Benq XL2430T Settings

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 06 Oct 2016, 13:09

I had XL2411T, XL2411Z, XL2430T and monitor controller board by cirthix. I was surprised how good colors were with board by cirthix with panel from XL2411T. That board has no OSD, no color calibration at all...
Well done BenQ.
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