Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

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fredgido
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by fredgido » 24 May 2015, 06:48

On my xl2411 for single player/non competitive games normally I vsync and strobe at 60-96hz where it is pretty much artifact free. Fast reaction/online games I prefer to not strobe and leave it at 144fps to reduce response time and not see artifacts.


I tried watching anime with 24hz and 30hz strobing with a little script on ffdshow. For a video of a third of the refreshrate: Image
If the video is half remove one "blankclip(last)".
Yeah with dark scenes it looked fine but normally you can't focus on the details of the image because of the flashes, it is like the screen has a screwed up gamma curve. Maybe we could compensate with some image adjustment :lol: ?

zb0t
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by zb0t » 25 May 2015, 19:36

masterotaku wrote: Or maybe I can stand it because I'm european and we had 50Hz CRT TVs since we were children.

PS: wow, switching to 60Hz after being at 50Hz for a while makes it looks like it's flicker free :lol: .
DUUUUDEEE sometimes I'm wondering where all of you guys are when I remember the old times and those 50hz screens haha, I remember when we were looking for NTSC 60hz models around, it wasn't easy, depending on where you lived :lol: :lol: then it felt like your life changed, and then the shock with the CRT 120/160hz that was even more brutal...
:lol:

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RealNC
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by RealNC » 25 May 2015, 20:19

Because 60FPS is the target of 100% awesome for 90% of people.
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Oofloom
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by Oofloom » 25 May 2015, 21:27

Strobing has its problems, but I think the main reason there's so little interest is that people have adapted, without even realizing it, to LCDs in ways that make motion blur much less noticeable. One is obvious: people "jerking" their perspective using quick, start-and-stop mouse movements to bypass the motion blur. I'm pretty sure people are also instinctively syncing their eye movements with these perspective jerks, as well as using a "periscope" technique: keeping their eyes fixed on a small portion of the screen and moving the perspective to look around instead of using eye movement.

3dfan
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by 3dfan » 26 May 2015, 12:57

i think most people didnt notice or care about the clean motion clarity, even in the CRTs days.
back in the 90s, when i felt in love with the "life like" motion clarity when i saw the first 3d game runing at 60fps at the arcades on crt, (daytona usa) and until know, i have not seen the first person caring about this besides me and the people on this forum, which i discovered not long ago

strobing monitors do not exist in my country and i doubt i will see one soon, when i talk about motion clarity and strobed monitors availability with monitor tech experienced sellers here in my city (bogota colombia) they look like they dont know what i am talking about, even when companies like benq and asus have strong presence here.

facing the cruel reality, i feel like a kind of a danger of extinction specie

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Oofloom
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by Oofloom » 26 May 2015, 14:03

I've felt that despair. But we are finally starting to get it all back. The main reason I'm excited for VR is because it forces down input lag, motion blur, and frame times dramatically. You need very-close-to or better-than CRT performance in all those categories to do VR without making people sick. I doubt the first-generation Rifts/Vives/etc. will quite be a CRT-mourner's dream, but I have high hopes for the next few years/half-decade. There are already HMDs/VR goggles in the works that use microdisplay OLEDs with 2k by 2k resolution.

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lexlazootin
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by lexlazootin » 27 May 2015, 00:11

lol, those goggles.

Would it be possible to have glasses that kinda work like 3d glasses that over both your eyes for a fraction of a second, linked up with gsync? that would be pretty cool.

Blurless
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by Blurless » 28 May 2015, 10:03

I also think people just don't know what they are looking at. Which is actually great for many of them, their holy grail might be standing on a store shelf right now.

And I don't see any websites talking about it either, nobody seems to know about or understand these developments. I've seen it explained (in passing) wrongly at a couple of gaming sites and in one review of the Eizo FG2421 the guy said 'the 240Hz mode is easier on the eyes so it's good if you are sensitive to that' never mentioning what it does for motion clarity.

It's weird to me how much ghosting is mentioned and tested everywhere and never does anyone talk about the inherent terrible motion clarity of lcd's. Also the monitor brands don't really promote or explain it either. They just use the same image comparison they use for comparing response time where one is blurry and the other is sharp, which doesn't tell anybody anything.

People don't know and don't understand, we need to make some noise and many more people will come to love it! :)

SeeNoWeevil
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by SeeNoWeevil » 29 May 2015, 10:14

I think the only way people would take notice, is if LCD panels were labelled with their effective motion resolution alongside their static resolution.

3dfan
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Re: Why aren't gamers worshipping at the altar of strobing?

Post by 3dfan » 29 May 2015, 10:42

also chef blur busters seems to be away from this forum a good while ago, little activity from him after the lightboost and strobe utility boom, i remember him telling his experiences with oculus at the CES and telling he did not noticed motion blur or lag, which seems the way to go, but i suspect our necks will suffer a lot with this technology. also the cost that will carry a hardware being able to run games at constant 90fps / at very high resoutions will be a drawback
Because 60FPS is the target of 100% awesome for 90% of people.
im one of those that believed 60 was enough, i have always gamed on a crt at 60hz and since i am very used to 60hz flickering i was satisfied with it for years (mouse at 60hz, games at 60fps and screen refresh at 60hz).

but man!, i just did a test with my first aproach to 120hz 3d gaming and i was really amazed:
my crt monitor supports 120hz vertical at 800 x 600, so i tested the game "evil within" (which i already finished at 60hz 60fps), at almost full graphics settiings (blur related settings disabled of course) 800 x 600@ 120hz, and a usb mouse120hz at 120fps (fortulanely my hardware was able to handle constant 120fps at these settings on this game to successfully finish the test) and i was really amazing how noticiable better the motion feeling on this game became, i dont know if this is because the flicker rate, but i felt motion even more life like than i used to believe at 60hz 60fps, also the mouse movement was noticiable smoother, faster when reacting and almost stutter free that i felt like if was moving the camera with my mind, the game felt so realistic that the low 800x600 resolution i played with this was never a dramatic drawback, also thanks to the wonderfull crt resolution scaling. i ended replaying the game with those settings and loved it, surviving this game and fighting mad bosses feeling so realistic truly improved this gaming experience for me.
it really felt so virtual reality that i felt as if i was the main character inserted into the game.

and it was just with an horror survival game, which many people, including developers believe "at 30 fps are good enough"

of course there is still the big 120fps gaming drawback: money and hardware availability, who knows when a system will be able to run constant 120fps games at high resolutions higer setttings and at a reasonable price. not even sli or crossfire system are able to, not constantly.

blur free 120hz gaming is not definitely only good for FPS competitive games, but also noticeably improves gaming experience with 3d games were you can control the camera with the mouse. at least i believe so.

i know from now i will hardly see 60hz gaming as i used to, but cost well keep me on this yet.

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