The holy grail of monitors?

[Manimal 5000]

You want high framerates? Gratz - you can get a 200hz monitor now.

Ok it's now clear why people keep asking for these ridiculous monitors. High hz don't mean high frame rates! High hz without a matching frame rate adds NOTHING and can even be detrimental. High hz by themselves don't:

reduce reaction time
reduce input lag
reduce persistence blur
reduce stutter


High frame rates do those things people want. They represent real-time updates. Hz just flash the updates on screen, and btw, flashing the same frame update over and over has NO benefit visually or performance-wise! You just get blurry double vision motion studder on screen (the detrimental part). Everybody's seen that happen. So, a 144 hz monitor paired with a card that only puts out 60 fps gets you less than nothing. Things will look and perform much better if the refresh is more in line with capablities of your card. G-sync does help the stutter thing so, 3840x2160 at a paltry 20fps might look half decent nowadays. It doesn't fix the persistence blur and lag. Dollars to donuts few people know that.

So why buy a monitor with 1ms response time and a ton of low frame rate persistance blur. Defeats the purpose.
Why buy a 144 high hz monitor with a resolution that forces your card to a stuttering 60 fps? Beats me.

[Illegaltaco15]

Truly is the holy grail!

[Edmond]

Ok it's now clear why people keep asking for these ridiculous monitors. High hz don't mean high frame rates! High hz without a matching frame rate adds NOTHING and can even be detrimental. High hz by themselves don't:

reduce reaction time
reduce input lag
reduce persistence blur
reduce stutter

ALL of these are reduced with higher fps/hz.

For a TRUE artifact free display you want to combine OLED with adaptivesync that goes as low as 0hz and turns into vsync @ max refresh. For a mathematically perfect fps=hz display.
That way you`ll get zero artifacts of any kind. Perfect viewing angles, perfect color, perfect black, no flicker, no ghosting, no overdrive crap, no tearing, no stutters.

But input lag and pixel persistence blur will always remain and can only be reduced. The higher the fps/hz the lower both of these. Id say around 200fps/hz both of these will become a non-issue. Some people say that you would need 1000fps/hz on a flicker free display to achieve CRT motion clarity. Those people usually skip the part that CRTs by themselves are a blurry mess + they have trailing artifacts, oh and flicker.

(Ye, i actually believed some of the hype of CRT`s, bought a couple 22" CRT`s 1600x1200@100hz. It was a fucking disappointment, bit more motion clarity for a whole lot of new issues,... not to mention using 4:3 after trying 21:9 made me want to physically hurt myself, cuz that would be less painful.)


But, i dont get your reasoning. Some people will play some games @ 20fps regardless whats the HZ, so it doesnt matter what refresh rate monitors we get? Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing now?
Do you understand that more than 60fps on a 60hz monitor is meaningless?

Or you think that the whole industry will shift to keeping 120fps on all modern games at all price segments and everything while everyone will sit on 60hz monitors. THEN, when you are ready - everyone will switch to never-before-existing 120hz monitors across the board?

You should be FUCKING ECSTATIC that the monitor industry is finally squeezing out monitors that can ALLOW for high fps and highly reduced artifact gaming.

[Glide]

G-sync does help the stutter thing so, 3840x2160 at a paltry 20fps might look half decent nowadays.

20 FPS looks terrible on anything.
G-Sync fixes fluctuating framerates. It doesn't make low framerates look good.
You could always use 1/3 refresh V-Sync at 60Hz on a regular display to see how "smooth" 20 FPS would look on a G-Sync monitor.

Some people say that you would need 1000fps/hz on a flicker free display to achieve CRT motion clarity. Those people usually skip the part that CRTs by themselves are a blurry mess + they have trailing artifacts, oh and flicker.

CRTs can have motion blur on the trailing edge, especially if you don't set the brightness correctly.
However whatever is actually in motion should be very clear compared to a sample & hold display. It's not a small difference at all in my opinion.

Flicker is the only way to lower persistence independently of the framerate.

I'm not sure what you mean by them being "a blurry mess" - it sounds as though the monitor you used was faulty.

[SS4]

Also, lets not forget that besides hardware limitations (CPU, GPU or monitors), there is also software and game engine preventing higher FPS.
60 FPS is the golden standard for consoles and with most games being multiplats nowadays(since xbox and playstation are just PC clones this gen) it plays a huge part in why we run into FPS or HZ problems.
It will still take quite some time before hardware and software both work in tandem to make 100+ FPS/HZ the new golden standard.
I am afraid that until game consoles pushes in that direction (if they dont become extinct soon, thx to crappy mobile gaming . . .) we wont see such a thing happen.

[Manimal 5000]

ALL of these are reduced with higher fps/hz.

For a TRUE artifact free display you want to combine OLED with adaptivesync that goes as low as 0hz and turns into vsync @ max refresh. For a mathematically perfect fps=hz display.
That way you`ll get zero artifacts of any kind. Perfect viewing angles, perfect color, perfect black, no flicker, no ghosting, no overdrive crap, no tearing, no stutters.

But input lag and pixel persistence blur will always remain and can only be reduced. The higher the fps/hz the lower both of these.

Looks like for the most part you do understand what I said so let me clarify my gripe with these monitors...We all want 144 fps/hz but only if they are in sync. Agree? Now how are you going to do that with a card choking on UltraHD at about 50fps. If you think graphic cards are all of a sudden up to this punishment you are sorely mistaken. These resolutions are too impractical for 144hz to work, which means we are left with blur, stutters and lag. That's all I'm saying. We agree G-sync is a compromise.

You should be FUCKING ECSTATIC that the monitor industry is finally squeezing out monitors that can ALLOW for high fps and highly reduced artifact gaming.

I'm so glad 144hz is available. Why they make it unattainable is beyond me.

[Edmond]

Looks like for the most part you do understand what I said so let me clarify my gripe with these monitors...We all want 144 fps/hz but only if they are in sync. Agree? Now how are you going to do that with a card choking on UltraHD at about 50fps. If you think graphic cards are all of a sudden up to this punishment you are sorely mistaken. These resolutions are too impractical for 144hz to work, which means we are left with blur, stutters and lag. That's all I'm saying. We agree G-sync is a compromise.

Forget gsync, it just fixes tearing, doesnt make anything smoother - simply put.
So, what you are saying is you dont want 144hz high res monitors because the current gpu`s arent powerful enough for bla bla bla?

I believe i already answered this in a cynical way.

Or you think that the whole industry will shift to keeping 120fps on all modern games at all price segments and everything while everyone will sit on 60hz monitors. THEN, when you are ready - everyone will switch to never-before-existing 120hz monitors across the board?

Furthermore - you are judging all of this by your graphics requirements. I`ll play CS GO just fine on a 5120x2160@200fps/hz with a single video card... just give me that monitor.

I dont really see your point being valid at all, in any way. We need higher res and higher refresh rates still... nvidia and amd can get off their jerking stools afterwards, they certainly wont before.
I really dont know how many different ways i can say the same thing over and over again. And if i didnt understand you - i dunno, i tried really hard to immerse myself in your posts. Then i cant read apparently.

[Glide]

Forget gsync, it just fixes tearing, doesnt make anything smoother - simply put.

G-Sync is a lot smoother when you are unable to lock your framerate to the refresh rate.
It just doesn't fix low framerates. (anything below about 45-50 FPS depending on your sensitivity)

[masterotaku]

Now how are you going to do that with a card choking on UltraHD at about 50fps. If you think graphic cards are all of a sudden up to this punishment you are sorely mistaken. These resolutions are too impractical for 144hz to work, which means we are left with blur, stutters and lag.

The thing is that it would allow more options. When playing very old games (which I do frequently), I can for example play them at 1920x1080@120Hz (in 3D or 2D, depending on the game), with lots of antialiasing and still the GPU and CPU usage may be low. In that case, the monitor is the bottleneck, and having higher resolutions and refresh rates would make more use of the PC hardware.

And then, even if you have a 5120x2160@200Hz monitor, it isn't mandatory to run games at that resolution. Of course, lower than native resolutions in LCD monitors look worse than just lower native resolutions, but if the native resolution is very high (as in the example), the interpolation won't be bad (unlike 1080p in a 1440p monitor).

Adapting your game configuration to your needs is better when you don't have low limits in either refresh rate or resolution. For example, 4k is nice, but you can't run a current 4k@60Hz monitor at higher refresh rates just by lowering its resolution, while if you have a monitor that has "everything", you can play more freely.

Btw, I'm not directing all of this specifically to you. Just saying my opinions in this thread.

[Edmond]

Forget gsync, it just fixes tearing, doesnt make anything smoother - simply put.

G-Sync is a lot smoother when you are unable to lock your framerate to the refresh rate.
It just doesn't fix low framerates. (anything below about 45-50 FPS depending on your sensitivity)

Yes, yes - i know.
I just said that - so someone who isnt familiar with any of this - doesnt think that gsync will somehow make 30fps like 60fps. Still 30fps, just cleaned up.