All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

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SamanHit
Posts: 10
Joined: 17 Aug 2021, 12:34

Re: All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

Post by SamanHit » 17 Aug 2021, 12:36

Hey mate i think i have the same issue.. Ive changed every part in my pc but its still the same.. Did u manage to fix it?

Yuiiski
Posts: 35
Joined: 28 Oct 2020, 19:10

Re: All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

Post by Yuiiski » 17 Aug 2021, 20:39

SamanHit wrote:
17 Aug 2021, 12:36
Hey mate i think i have the same issue.. Ive changed every part in my pc but its still the same.. Did u manage to fix it?
I'm glad that I am not alone, I have had this issue since 2017 and I am yet to fix it, I started off with a pre built PC back in 2017 and was getting constant stutters in every game, even in basic games like Minecraft, I got stutters every second, it's unplayable. Since then I have owned two completely different PC's with completely different components and the issues remained, I am so close to pulling my hair out I swear. I've tried everything, it makes no sense.

User avatar
ko4
Posts: 126
Joined: 06 Jul 2018, 16:14

Re: All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

Post by ko4 » 22 Aug 2021, 15:14

Yuiiski wrote:
17 Aug 2021, 20:39
SamanHit wrote:
17 Aug 2021, 12:36
Hey mate i think i have the same issue.. Ive changed every part in my pc but its still the same.. Did u manage to fix it?
I'm glad that I am not alone, I have had this issue since 2017 and I am yet to fix it, I started off with a pre built PC back in 2017 and was getting constant stutters in every game, even in basic games like Minecraft, I got stutters every second, it's unplayable. Since then I have owned two completely different PC's with completely different components and the issues remained, I am so close to pulling my hair out I swear. I've tried everything, it makes no sense.
Minecraft java has always been a stuttery mess..
Try the bedrock edition

Z3CrosS
Posts: 3
Joined: 20 Jan 2024, 04:30

Re: All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

Post by Z3CrosS » 20 Jan 2024, 07:37

I have the same Juddering issue. It will be huge post with alot of informatation. (i7 2600k, Asrock Z68 Extreme7, 1350w Thermaltate, Samsung SSD (have 3 different and alot of hdd), 1080ti Palit Jet, Windows10 Licens.

Dis happened after my stick of Ram was half pulled out of Ram slot. I booted pc 3 times and PSU 3 times hard reset PC. Psu prevented short. After i pulled Ram properly back and booted PC, all went normal, Windows ran, but after then windows desktop appeared, 3-5 sec and big black horizontal lines appeared on monitor screen. I shuted pc down from PSU switch. After i booted and all is good, desktop, programs and all is good without any black thick lines. But i started to notice juddering in games(kinda stuttering but not - its juddering - worse possible pc issue), and its minor effect in movies while pan camera.

Around 4 months i've tried to solve problem.

1. What i did at Soft level -
PC passes all benches, even exotics non-pop bench. Aida, OCCT, Various Memtests, Prime, Cinebench, Superposition, 3d Mark, Furmark and etc. All passes, no blue screen, no reboots, system is stable. Installed Win7, Win8, Win10. Have License Win7 with free upgrade to Win10(present from microsoft you know). Installed from DVD disk, even tried "free" versions to test. All the same. Tried to give permission access to Warnings in Event Viewer (DCOM) through Regedit and Components. Msi Afterburner does little help, but overall not. Problem - if your fps drops from native Monitor Herts even at 2-5 fps lower (60hertz monitor) you have Juddering even with VSYNC. Without Vsync much worse + huge tearing. Tried Tripple Buff and other NVidia inspector configs. Tried update bios, tried to play with bios settings, disabled Hpet and etc. Disabled all unnessery things in Windows 10. Nothing Helps

2.What i did at Hardware level -
Changed all one by one. Around 4 different CPU, 2 psus, different Ram one by one and together, Sandy/Ivy cpus, tried alot of cables and interfaces, 2 Monitores (1 with freesync 75 herts) and 1 TV Plasma Panasonic, tried different power inputs. Booted minimalistic PC. Short to say i did all you can imagine. 2 motherboards. And i endend up with Asus Z77 Maximus V Extreme. All motherboards holes are working, internal sound/video outputs works, sata and etc. So nothing helps. I even went to RMA services, to test my GPU, and i ended up with testing their GPUS and few thier systems with my own hands. All the same, same symptoms. They tested my GPUs pcie key with hardware, and say that all is good.

Now, i would like to explain what's caused dis the worst PC problem. Dont know from where to start, how to structurize.

------
1. Internal information what i digged up, in case, maybe will help someone. PC Structure:
Then you buy new PC. At very first boot Intel Management Engine write all compotents (mostly chipset) information in NVRM. Called Intel ME region. Dis region never deletes or updating. You cant rewrite it even you are flashing Bios. You can clear "dirty" ME Region only with programmator and good hands.
1.1: CPU write something in Bios. Cpu has System Agent aka North Bridge. it contains Pcie express controller, Ram controller and DMI. Dmi - physical interface, created to help communicate with South Bridge. So North Bridge (System Agent) speaks with South Bridge all the time. Like two politics :).
1.2: Windows writes something in Bios too, dont know what, but we have Secure Boot Keys and TPM. You can delete Secure Boot keys but NEVER TRY DO THAT, because after that your motherboard can be bricket and you have to manually create new one keys.
1.3: As i said Intel ME something writes in Bios too.
1.4: New (modern) GPUS have Uefie bios. Dont know how it works actually, something like gop somekind.

So i'm trying to say that modern Bios/Uefi is like horny courtesan girl, each component can write something in it. And you as user, can do almost nothing with that. Secure Boot and TPM is nice security, but dis security can work against you if something going wrong.

2. So my thoughts what's causing dis issue, dis issue kinda "virus" like. As some people say, that the greater PC virus is sitting near it :).I think that the problem is within Windows, but not windows pure issue. All people who have dis issue at 95% of time not speak about windows. I mean Windows installs a corrupted windows each time, with Faulty Registery. Why its happenening i dunno, maybe you have hardware issue (where? i dunnu? maybe bios, maybe Cpus North Bridge) dis information is locked, i mean its hard to say or see what windows installs in bios, or how it works with Secure boot and other ****.
People who have dis issue i think have also the same DCOM warning:

B54 - last letters
and APPID
402 - last letters

its related to PerApptimebroker component. With dis DCOM people have some issues with PC, or its just a coincidence.

Now back to my black thick lines. I have 12 years judder free system, system worked flawlessly, i have 4k videos on youtube, game walkthrough recorded flawlessly on i7 2600k. Each time after i restarted PC or booted it, after Windows desktop appeared, after 3 or 5 second my monitor one time fast flickered, alwats like clock. This was always the same stable at all my 12 years expereince. So black lines came in that moment that my monitor had to flicker, but instead of flicker, i got Black thick horizontal lines at 50% of monitor screen.
So i think, that Ram finished something in CPU. I think CPUs North Bridge was damaged, Pcie Controlller or Ram controller or Dmi i dont know. But after that i got juddering then fps going down from native monitor Herts even with vsync.
But then i bought 2120 CPU, and installed windows from DVD disk, my monitor starts to do one stable flicker again, stable each time. After i upgraded Win7 to Win10 via USB flash, monitor continues stable flick 1 time. And i decide to boot SSD with old Windows10 installed via i7 2600k, i booted, monitor flickered 1 time, but short after Intel started to install something and CPU was at 90% load. It something installed and i rebooted, to see if monitor will continue that one stable flick at startup. Sooo...monitor not flicked anymore, even if i installed again fresh windows from dvd, monitor not "flick" ever again.

So what is it - "the one time monitor flicker" in my case, why im pointing on it. That flickering i had all my 12 years stable. It's related to chipset drivers. I think it booted the main CPUs North Bridge Driveron Z68 Extreme7 MB each time on Windows startup. Other Motherboards have black CMD windows fast poping and closing up after you restarts your pc(similar thing to my "flick").
On my new Asus Z77 MVE, after i placed all my components in it, after i installed windows from Dvd and chipset drivers from dvd, i had each time black CMD closing windows at startup. But at end of a day, they are dissapeared. I think its happened after i upgraded my Win7 from Win10 usb drive. AND HERE i think the main issue. Windows flash drive was created via Media Creation Tool on old motherboard (Z68 Extreme7). Maybe Windows remembers config - that i had Z68 Chipset, and istalled itself as Z68 Chipset on Z77 Chipset. I dont know could it be, i just dont know. But after dis update, CMD black windows never poped up again even if i change a cpu...

So final my final thoughts how to get rid of dis issue and how to test system if you want to buy it from Second market or to avoid dis issue while buying new PC:

1. How to test your system and used system before buying:
The main fastest test: If you have 1440p monitor or 4k, your bios must be in that native resolutionafter you install video driver(not in 1080p). In my case, if i reseting bios, or installs new OS, my bios is at Native 1440p resolution. But after i installs video drivers on descrete GPU, or Intel HD internal CPU graphics, after, my Bios resolution dropping from 1440p to 1080p. Secondly if you unninstall drivers, if you something move on your desktop, for example any desktop window (my pc or something), that window moves will be not smooth kinda stuttering like, dont know hot to explain it. Other symptoms - in Open World games (Witchers 3 or GTA5) for example, your distance scaling will be low/blurry, even if you max out all setting, and in other games too(depends of engine ofc), for example in Resident Evil 2, 4, will be blurry too even without taa. Addition symptom and very good test - for example Starcraft 2 in coop will be very juddering and stuttering. And the last one but Major test too and fast - have to install Adobe After Effects (i know not many people have it), and after you open it, you have to resize main AE window with your mouse, and you will see that Media Cloud Window in AE window will start to judder + leaving its place till you stop resize AE main window. So if you want to buy Healthy system on a Second Market, used one, you have to test system with my motheds and ideal you have to buy system with installed licensed Windows. I know it will be exensive but if you want 100% healthy system you have to do that

[Updated]. The fastest Way to check is: you have to go in Device Manager -> System Devices, and you have to find LPC pci express controller or Pci express controller(names depends of generations) and Pci express Root Port 1. Right click on it -> Properties -> Events. Events has installation logs of chipset drivers status. If system is Healthy, will be status as Device Configured (Oem(X).inf), Device is Started. In my case status is Device not Started with code 0x15 or 000E5. But overall windows tells me that "This device is working properly". Why this happens? I think that motherboard/windows can't isntall chipset drivers for CPU Pci express controller and short after windows rolls back to his default Microsoft Windows global compatibility drivers for any systems - system losses perfomance and unique features/keys, but can still be able to work.

2.How to avoid dis issue with new PC:
You have to put your Ram before installing CPU, after you can install cpu. Avoid as much as possible changing Ram, ram can easily damage whole system, at physical/logic level. You have to buy the most expensive Ram, not the top fastest Ram but something near 5000-6000mhz XMP for DDR5, plug it and never change it again. Because Bios requires some adress in Ram' cell, and dis cell never changes, each time pc boots. Secondly, you have to buy new Windows License for new PC. Never install "free" or attached Windows to another motherboard, because things can be messy. I know its madness to think that corrupted windows can damage MB, but, if you want 100% healthy system you have to enable safe mod and use fresh licensed Windows (people with juddering pc symptoms know that im talking about). Even if you change CPU, windows licence can be voided and you have a risk using that windows on new CPU, because of Windows Component Registers. You can safely change SSD/GPUs. So to avoid dis issue you have to check MB before buying at shop, not suggest to ordering with delivery, MB must be checked your own eyes in shop + make some video / and photos in shop. After install ram and never change. New windows and only dis windows you have to install each time.

3. How to fix dis issue:
I'm affraid dis issue cannot be fixed, maybe can, but its risky, i think it's faulty NVRAM, intel ME region or something with bios, or CPUs North bridge. You have to pay money to clear NVRAM chip to test it, and its risky anyway.
But i will try, i will by new CPU i7 3770k only if system from which i will take it will 100% healthy. After that i will buy another Windows 10 license. Will take CMOS battery from MB for around 5-7 hours. And after i will place new CPU on new system with minimalistic setup and install new windows lincense. If dis will not help, so yeah, system is bugged at bios level.
What's damaging? Overall PC have two main Buses: North Bridge Bus and South Bridge Bus. Video Juddering - its pcie controller bus (north bridge). South bridge bus - sata/sound and pcie x4 slot. But anyway motherboard controlls all system, so its not easy as it sound.

P.s My final thoughts: Video juddering causing via North Bridge/System Agent issue (pcie controller or dmi) and windows installs corrupted windows all the time. I think CPU is damaged, and the main question is - can CPUs faulty north bridge damage bios / chipset(Intel ME). And the second question is: can corrupted windows damage bios. My experience shows that yes, faulty Windows can damage compontents, permanently or not i dont know. But Windows something installs on motherboard + secure boot + tpm, and windows works only/mainly with component registers, so if cpu or windows faulty, they can write wrong codes. So if you want juddering free(pc juddering is always an Incomptable issue on hardware or/and software level) you have to get new license for new pc's components and try to avoid switching Ram and Cpu.

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![Updated]! [Half Solved] I think, i found the culprit:
Short to say - it's faulty/corrupted micro code inside Chipset Engine(Intel ME or Bios) related to CPU. Cpu has micro code too and north bridge. Intel ME writes micro code in bios for each configuration. So if you put first time CPU in MB, Intel ME updates micro code for CPU/MB CONFIGURATION(Composition). It writes it for all exact CPUs models (for example i3 models). What i mean by that is - each CPUs lineup has a number, for example: Core i3-2120 (3.3G,L3:3M,iGPU, 2C ,rev.Q0) and Core i5-2500S (2.7G,L3:6M,iGPU, 4C ,rev.D2). i3 models has 2C number, and i5 / i7 has 4C number. I know it is number of cores, its just rough example. If you install your i7 for first time, intel ME will write configuration for 4C lineup processors and it will never changes. So if you put lower CPU with another lineup number, Intel Me will write an additional configuration for your configuration (not rewrite it, but just add to an existed). So if you somehow managed to broke dis micro code (dunno mb faulty ram or faulty windows, or overvoltage), your chipset drivers will stop to properly work permanently on this configuration/composition, because of incompatibility issue. Intel ME/Chipset/Bios will start to not properly recognize CPU or properly control it only windows will be all in trying to handle your config at is best at logic level with its default drivers, and your Perfomance will drops in half permanently + you will have some issues with video signal (Juddering and Blurry like ingame graphic effects and kinda blurry motion).

How i managed to figure it out? it was 4 mouths, i did all you can imagine, it's one very huge Puzzle. All dis happend on Asrock Z68 Extreme7(beautiful mb btw) after stick of ram was slightly pulled out, after that juddering appeared and my monitor not flick at startup (MB chipset drivers not starting, but windows tells that all is oki-doki in system devices aka device is work properly). After i bought i3 2120(for the first time i3 CPU in 12 years for my MB) to test. Installed Windows7 licensed from dvd, and chipsets from dvd, and miracle my monitor start to flick each time at startup. Updated to Win10, flick remains and i was happy, i though "YES soft cant damage". And i decided to switch SSDs with an old Windows10 installed by i7 2600k. So i ran it on 2120, monitor flick at startup, but short after Intel starts to install something with 90% of load. Installed, i rebooted, and after that, monitor not flickered anymore at startup. Never, 4 times tried to install different windows from dvd or flash. I went further and bought 3 another CPUs 2100, 2120, 3220. Monitor not want to flick at startup never again. 3 other CPUs cant be bad in a raw, and it was not a luck that first i3 2120 in Asrock MB life was just 100% healty, no its not, it could be that, if it was 2nd or 3rd 2120 CPU, but not, it was the first - and this is a major key. So i think its a corrupted intel ME region, corrupted micro code update for whole system configuration (CPU + Motherboard), and maaaaaybe in the same time CPU could have a corrupted microcode too(it's very less likely but can be) and you cant Reset or Restore it. Mb you caaaan do it, have to use programmator, but its very very risky and i'm not suggest you to do that. So that's why i wrote that dis Juddering problem cant be solved because of broken system logic. All you can do is to buy new PC and do all things right from beginning with NEW Windows License. If you want to buy a used one system, you can use my advices how to figuere is system full healthy or not, but you have to by used PC only with installed Windows licenced drive with it. But any way, i think i will try to find i7 3770k from 100% healty system and test it on my own MB, if will be no changes, so its 100% damaged MB logic. I will update if i find it. Cheers!

Z3CrosS
Posts: 3
Joined: 20 Jan 2024, 04:30

Re: All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

Post by Z3CrosS » 10 Feb 2024, 03:21

I've made a video, which shows various symptoms of juddering and overall incorrect / low PC perfomance(in games and desktop tasks). To help people calculate issues and not to make a mistake in buying new / used PC with these symptoms(to avoid scammers).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNjYleJCsR8

It's not an advertisement, my channel is not monitized.

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