EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Everything about displays and monitors. 120Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz, 4K, 1440p, input lag, display shopping, monitor purchase decisions, compare, versus, debate, and more. Questions? Just ask!
dhaine
Posts: 49
Joined: 22 Nov 2014, 00:25

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by dhaine » 13 Aug 2017, 03:46

amazing, is this the work of Zis ? :) Q83Ia7ta is going to drool over this

cirthix
Posts: 27
Joined: 20 Dec 2013, 15:59

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by cirthix » 14 Aug 2017, 05:32

Haste wrote:So this is from cirthix, right?

In Linus video, he says it's from zis.

http://www.zisworks.com/
cirthix = zis

Haste
Posts: 326
Joined: 22 Dec 2013, 09:03

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Haste » 14 Aug 2017, 10:54

I know ;)

btw do we really need to go to 540p for sweet 480Hz or is it just because Linus only used one cable?

edit: btw someone made another thread on overclock.net.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1636345/blur ... ur-busters

Already we can read gems like "480hz is so far past the point of diminishing returns" and "that sounds like the definition of the placebo effect if I've ever heard one"

:evil:

edit: more coverage:

https://hothardware.com/news/refresh-ra ... -prototype

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/480hz- ... ted,2.html

https://hardforum.com/threads/blur-bust ... y.1941733/

https://www.techpowerup.com/236131/480- ... splay-tech

http://www.thinkcomputers.org/a-true-48 ... r-spotted/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/82 ... d-monitor/

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_di ... _spotted/1

http://www.mac4ever.com/actu/123994_apr ... ur-a-480hz
Monitor: Gigabyte M27Q X

User avatar
masterotaku
Posts: 436
Joined: 20 Dec 2013, 04:01

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by masterotaku » 14 Aug 2017, 11:50

Haste wrote: Already we can read gems like "480hz is so far past the point of diminishing returns" and "that sounds like the definition of the placebo effect if I've ever heard one"

:evil:
Hahaha, we are far from that. Nothing will be perfect until the fastest movement in any game moves at 1 pixel per frame at most so we get natural motion blur instead of the stroboscopic effect (when not tracking something with our eyes). Getting games to play at fps=Hz will be extremely hard or impossible...

About the monitor, this is how things should be ideally. Lower than native resolution = extra Hz, like in the CRT era. 4K at 120Hz is a nice base resolution and refresh rate.
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws Z 3866MHz CL19
Motherboard: Gigabyte Gaming M5 Z270
Monitor: Asus PG278QR

Haste
Posts: 326
Joined: 22 Dec 2013, 09:03

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Haste » 14 Aug 2017, 12:13

[rant]

I don't have the courage to correct all these people.

Sometimes I make a post like this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1635783/the- ... t_26273885

but it takes me a long time to type (I'm a slow typer and english isn't my first language)

We should make some ready to post answers for all the common misconceptions.

And also what's up with the jet fighter pilots thing in every damn conversations about refresh rates. I usually don't even know what to answer to that since it is completely irrelevant.

[/rant]
Monitor: Gigabyte M27Q X

User avatar
masterotaku
Posts: 436
Joined: 20 Dec 2013, 04:01

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by masterotaku » 14 Aug 2017, 12:41

You said this in that post:
3) Backlight Strobing is currently incompatible with variable refresh rate technologies such as Gsync and Freesync.

And it will be a challenge to make the the two technologies work together while guaranteeing a decent experience.
You will get variance in flicker visibility as the refresh rate changes with frame time spike being especially nasty. You could combat that by modulating the strobe length but that requires also dynamically modulating the brightness. All that in real time and with great precision. Quite an engineering challenge.
Dude, I'm sure you know that's not true! G-Sync+ULMB has static strobe length and a 40-120Hz (up to 125Hz in my recent tests with custom refresh rates) single strobe range, but it's still great if the game in question doesn't stutter or doesn't have too many loading screens. In The Witcher 3 I'm usually at 85-100fps at 1440p, and not noticing frame drops and not having any vsync input lag, tearing or motion blur is great (but I play games in 3D 99% of the time so I don't use G-Sync much :p).
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws Z 3866MHz CL19
Motherboard: Gigabyte Gaming M5 Z270
Monitor: Asus PG278QR

Haste
Posts: 326
Joined: 22 Dec 2013, 09:03

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Haste » 14 Aug 2017, 12:47

Doesn't it look weird whenever the frame rate drop though? (fluctuation in flicker/brightness)
Monitor: Gigabyte M27Q X

User avatar
masterotaku
Posts: 436
Joined: 20 Dec 2013, 04:01

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by masterotaku » 14 Aug 2017, 14:02

Haste wrote:Doesn't it look weird whenever the frame rate drop though? (fluctuation in flicker/brightness)
Not really. For example, I played part of the new DOOM in 2D, using G-Sync+ULMB. Some cutscenes are capped at 60fps and just there I noticed a bit that brightness changed. The rest of the time I was mostly at 120fps with some drops, but I didn't notice those drops at all. I didn't start really looking at the fps counter until after I started playing in 3D. I thought: "why am I not getting the equivalent of 120fps in 2D here?.... Wait, I'm not getting them either in 2D!". That kind of stuff. I would say that in the 90-120fps range, it's hard to notice a difference in brightness, fps and flickering unless you try hard. It's just perfection in all respects.

But I have to say that I'm very tolerant to flickering, and that I prefer that instead of frame doubling or tearing.
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws Z 3866MHz CL19
Motherboard: Gigabyte Gaming M5 Z270
Monitor: Asus PG278QR

User avatar
RealNC
Site Admin
Posts: 3741
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32
Contact:

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by RealNC » 14 Aug 2017, 15:29

Haste wrote:Already we can read gems like "480hz is so far past the point of diminishing returns" and "that sounds like the definition of the placebo effect if I've ever heard one"
Well, they're not completely wrong.

If I fire up any of my favorite games, I get about 40-180FPS in them, depending on whether I use "Ultra" or "Lowest" graphics settings. The only modern exceptions are the esport games like CS and Quake.

A 480Hz monitor is really not useful to the "general public." It is a niche product that is only useful to people who are only interested in very high-frame rate esport-like games. Counter-Strike (1.6 to CS:GO) and classic Quake are the only high-profile use-cases.

And this is why I maintain the position that well implemented strobing is the best solution to motion blur. High refresh rates are not very practical and only benefit a very, very small percentage of users. Strobing on the other hand can benefit everyone, especially if we at last get a g-sync/freesync compatible version of it.
SteamGitHubStack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11647
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 14 Aug 2017, 17:09

Be careful with generalizations --

It's important to know that gaming 25 years ago is different from gaming today, and will be very different in 25 years.

New inventions are always occuring. Strobing is wonderful, and a great technology to have today. But it isn't necessarily the final frontier -- there are also new technologies that adds near-lagless frame interpolation/reprojection/translation/timewarping/etc -- this is done by Oculus to convert 45fps to 90fps. It looks odd, but once we're at 240fps, it might be the best way to interpolate to 960fps -- at such short persistences, timewarping/reprojection/translation/interpolation artifacts may become more subtle than low-persistence artifacts -- who knows? There's ideas being constantly brainstormed by really smart people in the industry. There were games used to run only 15fps just 15 years ago on an "average" computer, and 60fps is the standard now for many platforms. In theory, 240fps is technically doable as a standard frame rate in a decade (or two) from now -- and using lagless translation/reprojection/interpolation/timewarping tricks (built into GPU) to convert that to 1000fps@1000Hz with no performance penalty and far less artifacts than today's "120hz HDTVs" thanks to modern geometry-aware frame interpolators put into transistor logic -- for the type of $2000-league desktop gaming. There's amazing solutions currently being developed, things I've heard, many of which Joe Q. Public does not know yet. TL;DR There's ongoing research in framerate amplifiers that don't reduce detail level.

Few people thought smartphone/iPad gaming would become more popular than dedicated gaming handhelds, and many didn't foresee how detailed 3D graphics would become in just 25 years, with literal supercomputers-on-a-card (Titans and RX Vegas).

And we might be buying $50 chic Apple-Oakley VR shades from Apple Store in the 2040s. With a self-contained supercomputer GPU in the glasses frames. Who knows? Maybe that's the mainstream gaming then. Who dares to dictate mainstream gaming of tomorrow? None of us can. And, you know -- high end non-VR gaming might use a desktop monitor where each pixel group essentially a small low-power on-glass GPU [mostly doing framerate amplifier duty] behind them. Or other wondrous inventions of mankind that I've heard the early rumblings about. Not even us can predict exactly what will happen -- but we know it can't be predicted by anyone.

New thread: Frame Rate Amplification Technologies (1000fps on cheap GPUs)

Regardless -- whatever happens to future gaming and displays -- who knows?
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

Post Reply