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EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Nov 2017, 09:59

Glerox wrote:Chief, I guess at this point you've abandoned part 2 of the ziswork's monitor?
Input lag and strobing capacity review would have been nice though!
I'm looking every day lol. Will stop if it's never gonna happen!

I haven't abandoned it but postponed it -- I am holding off Part 2 until after the monitor begins shipping (soon). Take a look at http://www.zisworks.com/shop for the current shipping plan (currently, they are end of November estimated).

I talked to Zisworks and it's the best way for me to proceed with Part 2. Also, another factor is he has made so many improvements to the firmware and it's kind of a moving target -- so instead of repeating work over and over I'd like to wait till the final firmware is tamped down. The firmware has apparently also gained some new features (e.g. 1440p 180Hz, with black boxes at top/bottom) where previously it did not support 1440p. I also had to order some new equipment which is now finally here.

Apologies for the delay. In 2018 we'll finally have a brand new monitor testing workflow and can really ramp up testing a bigger number of monitors more quickly, so some of my delays is inventing/refining new display tests that will be used towards this. Hundreds of hours have been spent in the "BlurBusters Lab" -- whether programming the code for new TestUFO tests or refining a new camera for a pursuit camera rail. Then we can keep up better like our peers (TFTCentral, RTings, PCMonitors, HardwareCanucks, etc) but with our unique flavour of monitor testing that we apply equally to all "Better Than 60Hz Monitors" in the future. I had hoped to launch our brand new series of monitor tests by now, but we aren't copycatting an existing monitor reviews website -- it has to be true "Blur Busters" unique. We will be ramping up monitor reviews within months with a refined testing process. Keep tuned!
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Nov 2017, 10:13

mello wrote:Chief, if possible i would be interested in tests that would show how much of a advantage 480Hz has over lower refresh rates at exactly the same fps (and VSYNC OFF) in terms of:

- total input lag
- lag randomness

Excellent suggestions. Although we cannot promise to do this all for Part 2, keep tuned.

We're definitely going to expand more on the "lag-jitter" topic coming 2018, it is indeed part of the Blur Busters flavour of testing. It's more related to how refresh rate quantitizes the input lag somewhat. Randomizes lag by a refresh cycle span, even for low framerates, like 50fps@240Hz will lag-jitter less than 50fps@120Hz. And a display is a lag gradient due to scanout (and by corollary, each VSYNC OFF frame slice are individual lag graidents (given asymmetry of all-at-once frames versus the sequential scanline-by-scaline display on a panel).

Different input lag measuring methodologies affects it all differently, like point-measurements (Leo Bodnar style) versus first-screen-reaction-anywhere measurements (high speed camera style) -- they return totally different lag numbers & lag randomness factors -- which applies very differently to tiny enemies at crosshairs versus big full-screen-height enemies suddenly appearing around a corner. Most reviewers don't understand this stuff like Blur Busters does, that's the sort of "crazy nuances" we actually dive into.

mello wrote:Also, do you think that monitor manufacturers will start offering something similar to what zis has done ?
I mean main feature and selling point 4k@120Hz or 1080p@240Hz, but with bonus modes like 720p@300Hz, and 540p@480Hz.

I currently expect a 3-year lag similar to 240Hz. Zis succeeded in 240Hz in year 2013, and it did not take till late 2016 before the manufacturers started selling 240Hz monitors.

I expect commercial 480Hz gaming monitors in ~2020 and commercial 1000Hz gaming monitors in ~2025 (with the help of frame rate amplification technologies to achieve 1000fps on cheap GPUs for "blurless sample-and-hold" or "strobeless ULMB"). 1ms full persistence FTW! (no blackness between frames needed, true 1ms MPRT sample-and-hold flickerfree). Not anytime soon, but definitely within this human generation now.

Just like time and time again (240Hz, 480Hz...) small-time panel tinkerers, hobbyists and DIY monitor hackers will succeed on gaming CS:GO on homebrew'd 1000Hz long before the manufacturers have released the same crazy Hertz.

So your Zisworks purchase won't be outdated soon.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby steeze » 09 Nov 2017, 22:03

So is the word on the street still that cirthix won't be doing a 2nd round of production? I'm really interested but would like to hear what Blur Busters has to say about the production model!
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Glerox » 16 Nov 2017, 13:16

Aight, thanks chief! I'm looking foward to see all the improvements in testing methodology!

steeze wrote:So is the word on the street still that cirthix won't be doing a 2nd round of production? I'm really interested but would like to hear what Blur Busters has to say about the production model!


Zis ordered 80 kits and sold around 40 so there is still some left!
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby steeze » 16 Nov 2017, 19:36

Glerox wrote:Zis ordered 80 kits and sold around 40 so there is still some left!


That's great news, thanks for letting me know!
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby WestCoastWelker » 03 Dec 2017, 13:51

Why has nothing conclusive been written about this monitor in 4K 120HZ mode for months?


Zisworks sent you this and i can't help but feel as if you're slacking off with the kit he sent you in good faith.

The LTT video was largely a disappointment which taught enthusiasts nothing. We're pretty much relying on you to run every test for us and I feel like you're going to wait until everyone has these things in hand before we even hear a word from you.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Dec 2017, 15:55

Delay is because of a few major things.

1. I am waiting until I receive the new sample - we want to test that one instead because it is the same as everyone who will receive it. It has improvements that I really want to test, so I hate to throw away now-useless test results not representative.

2. Budget and time limitations, with hundreds of BlurBusters TODOs, including preparing a brand new review format for multiple monitors (taken months) after this one. Finally receiving test equipment for 2 testers, to allow us to finally ramp up testing with multiple monitors in early 2018. (Murphy's Law bumped it beyond my original Christmas deadline, alas!).

That said, I realize things have taken much longer than anticipated. Hang on there!

I can full confirm working 120Hz for 4K. No frameskipping. Lag is lowest I have seen for 4K. Looks just like the Windows (window dragging, scrollng) and game fluidity I already get with 1080p120Hz on mainstream monitors, except it is all 4K. But I also want to test properly with the improved strobe backlight / shipping version. And give Zis breathing space to work quickly to ship ASAP before a Part 2 surge of orders for him (since he is a small business that makes these monitors by dozens, not by 5e thousands). Also, we don't get paid for advertisin Zis' monitor, it has no Amazon affiliate - we had to focus on other BlurBusters stuff to save up for some new testing equipment (finally here).

I do apologize for the delays anyway - details nonwithstanding - all of you are waiting!
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