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EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby darzo » 17 Aug 2017, 03:16

So what would be the effects of lower transitions? Ghosting, trails? Would this monitor be suitable for first person shooter games? And let me get this straight, the picture at 1080 would actually be better? No scanline effects and artifacts, or is that the stuff that pertains to the lack of overdrive? By the way, why have companies not put out monitors like this, with higher refresh rates at lower resolutions? Curiously on their monitors the lower resolutions seem to look worse than you'd see on native monitors.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby masterotaku » 17 Aug 2017, 03:18

cirthix wrote:so you could use 3840*540@480Hz which would be very stretched, but interesting.


Waiiiiit. Vertical resolution is the only limitation for refresh rate in this monitor then? So 3840x1080@240Hz would be a possibility, right?

Is the monitor also capable of overclocking (using custom timings in CRU or the Nvidia CP)? Let's say that you want to reach 250Hz at 1080p, for example (a small overclock in %).

What I mean is, what's the limitation about having to decrease resolution to 1/4 to achieve 2x the refresh rate? Linearly, 1080p should be capable of 480Hz and 540p should do 1920Hz (lol). I know there is a perfect explanation for this, but I want to hear it anyway :p .
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 17 Aug 2017, 03:19

masterotaku wrote:
cirthix wrote:so you could use 3840*540@480Hz which would be very stretched, but interesting.


Waiiiiit. Vertical resolution is the only limitation for refresh rate in this monitor then? So 3840x1080@240Hz would be a possibility, right?

Yes.

3840x540p @ 480Hz
3840x1080p @ 240Hz

...It's a very odd resolution, but, it's capable of that. Windows does not like rectangular pixels, so it looks very distorted. I'm not sure how to change horizontal DPI independently from vertical DPI, but that could help greatly.

masterotaku wrote:
cirthix wrote:What I mean is, what's the limitation about having to decrease resolution to 1/4 to achieve 2x the refresh rate? Linearly, 1080p should be capable of 480Hz and 540p should do 1920Hz (lol). I know there is a perfect explanation for this, but I want to hear it anyway :p .

No.
Doesn't quite work that way. Other limits are being hit. cirthix should be able to explain.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby masterotaku » 17 Aug 2017, 03:25

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Windows does not like rectangular pixels, so it looks very distorted.


What I meant is having black bars at the top and bottom (Nvidia CP scaling option). It shouldn't be distorted. Is that not possible (because of how this specific monitor works, I guess)?
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby cirthix » 17 Aug 2017, 03:50

Every line must be driven every frame, so no black bars along the top or bottom. The game render engine should be aware of this, at the very least through FOV manipulation.

The limitation on refresh rate is three-fold
1) Line clock. Above a certain line clock, lines may fail to register and the entire image glitches out. 276KHz, that's the main limiter here.
2) Data clock to the DACs. Above a certain datarate, the DACs will glitch out.
3) Charge transfer from DAC to line to pixel. RC delays here set fixed time limitations. If sufficient time is not given, pixels will never reach their final voltage levels and the image will appear to have a really skewed gamma curve.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 17 Aug 2017, 05:37

Hopefully it's sooner than 2020.

That is the three years between cirthix's 240Hz in 2013, and mainstream 240Hz finally arriving 2016.

Personally, I had doubts how quick 1000 Hz might come, but display research progress has accelerated thanks to VR, and that Hertz insanity may filter down to desktop displays.

I think there is now a Moore's law in consumer Hertz doubling every few years till end of 2020s. So I'll deem it the Blur Busters "Moore's Law": Hertz in the highest-Hz consumer gaming/VR display to double every 5 years since true 120Hz first came out. Check back in 2030 to see if I was right.

2009: 120Hz
2013: Experimental 240Hz
2016: 240Hz
2017: Experimental 480Hz
2019: My prediction for mainstream manufacturer 1080p 480Hz
2024: My prediction for 1000fps at 1000Hz via a Frame Rate Amplification Technology
2029: My prediction for 2000fps at 2000Hz via a Frame Rate Amplification Technology

GPU progess will be a bottleneck, but upcoming frame rate amplification technologies (lagless geometry-aware reprojection/interpolation/etc) should help reduce GPU requirements of ultra high frame rates. Oculus is already doing it for 45->90fps, and this tech is under rapid research. Various engineers are probably running random brainstorm/breakthrough ideas such as stacked zbuffers and using a game engine's collision boxes as low-resolution geometry to reproject an an already-rendered high-detail frame with fewer and fewer interpolation artifacts. Presumably, a major goal is artifacts of reprojection need to be less than the artifacts forced by a too-low Hz or forced by strobing. In future, putting this direcly in silicon like a dedicated silicon "Frame Rate Processor Unit" (dedicated reprojectors, etc) -- will eventually solve the GPU wall problem for escalating Hz needed for "CRT clarity without strobing" -- and achieving stratospheric frame rates 1000fps+ using only a mid range GPU sometime next decade. Virtual Reality innovaging has lit some serious dynamite behind this kind of research, due to needing to look like reality. Some of this tech will likely filter down to gaming monitors.

Longshot preduction looking less longshot than I thought. I could be wrong, but check back in this thread by 2030.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby Xx123456xX » 17 Aug 2017, 07:29

What input(s) does the monitor use? What are its bit depth, color space, and color sampling?
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby lexlazootin » 17 Aug 2017, 08:23

Dude, this insane compared to the 240hz 1080p. So many nice features it's intense. FreeSync, Neighbor Filtering, Nice buttons, Vesa mount, Cable mount and all. Ahh, i need to get some money.

The resolutions and the refreshrates are so spot on i love how you do it, every monitor should do that. Would it be possible to toggle the filtering? I know it's probably really hard to say but would it be possible to swap out the TCON in the future for a OD version?

Also Mark, could you possibly take a photo of the screen at every resolution to see the image quality differences in terms of fadeout and scanlines? The 240hz would get really bad at 200+ and i think it would be neat to see the colour depth differences.

This isn't something i need, but it's something i want badly :) I might need to get a AMD card aswell haha

Wait, there wasn't any mention of FreeSync, was this removed or didn't work?

Damn, this is a good product.

2019: My prediction for mainstream manufacturer 1080p 480Hz


Haha, calm down. AUO just got done with 240hz.
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby masterotaku » 17 Aug 2017, 09:32

lexlazootin wrote:Haha, calm down. AUO just got done with 240hz.


I think that last year there were news about 2560x1440@240Hz monitors coming in 2017. But the 3840x2160@144Hz monitors are delayed until next year... Everything gets delayed! :lol:

About shipping: from where does it come? I'm in Europe, so if it comes from the USA, customs may intercept it, IIRC.
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws Z 3866MHz CL19
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Postby mello » 17 Aug 2017, 11:53

Mark, Part 2 (Input Lag Tests) will be available early next week or maybe by the end of the next week ?
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