EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

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Vega
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Vega » 16 Aug 2017, 10:38

Mark I may have missed it, is your review sample the 39" VA panel or the 28" TN panel?

As for 480 Hz, IMO not that relevant unless it comes along with a relevant resolution (IE: not 540p) and with a panel that could practically utilize that high of refresh rate/overdrive settings.

4K at 120 Hz is where the real deal is at, especially if it can scan/pulse the backlight without being ridiculously dim.

I would agree though with RealNC, 120 Hz 4K OLED with VRR which I am expecting with LG 2019 sets and associated HDMI 2.1 will be the next big breakthrough.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Aug 2017, 10:44

28" TN 4K 120Hz with strobing/scanning 4-segment backlight (switchable strobe vs scan)

Haste, I've got a better image coming in the "PART1" I'm publishing today.

Yes, correct -- the kits are available for preorder this week.

I'm juggling 3 things today -- training, job, AND this test. I think my average sleep hours has been ~3-4h/day for the last few days, so after I publish Part 1, I'm going to have to sleep in! We're the little ones, compared to parties line Linus Tech Tips, and we really focus on motion blur tests (PART1) & lag tests (PART2). PART1 is coming out before midnight (Eastern Standard Time).
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Aug 2017, 11:04

Vega wrote:As for 480 Hz, IMO not that relevant unless it comes along with a relevant resolution (IE: not 540p) and with a panel that could practically utilize that high of refresh rate/overdrive settings.
You're a believer in 480Hz at higher resolutions (and 480fps-capable GPUs), and you know that, don't you, Vega! ;)

LightBoost/CRT clarity on sample-and-hold without strobing. (dangles carrot)

However, many commentators and posters on the Net say 480Hz is worthless.

But both you and me know it isn't true, and while resolution is limited in this mode (reducing 480Hz benefits), this is still a 4K120 strobed panel -- massively useful in so many ways. That's fantastic into itself alone, too as well, for any 4K display on the market.

The 480Hz feature is just a bonus, despite lack of overdrive and not being an OLED panel. When you post about 480Hz, make sure you tell other readers on the Internet you're a believer (in the general principle of more Hz to reduce blur/persistence without strobing), since it's the only way to reduce persistence without strobing/impulsing/black frames.

..."The only way to have strobe-free sample-and-hold displays with CRT-sharpness motion clarity, is insanity in Hertz."...

It's both in our interests (you & me & motion blur reduction enthusiasts) avoid trying to discourage manufacturers from chasing 480 Hz OLEDs because they read customers saying 480Hz was useless. It's not in principle, as you've already said. ;)
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Vega
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Vega » 16 Aug 2017, 11:07

We definitely appreciate your hard work. I am definitely expecting more valuable information from your testing versus whatever LTT is going to put out. I don't think LTT has the "take your monitor apart and add these electronics" kind of audience.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Aug 2017, 11:09

Vega wrote:We definitely appreciate your hard work. I am definitely expecting more valuable information from your testing versus whatever LTT is going to put out. I don't think LTT has the "take your monitor apart and add these electronics" kind of audience.
Bingo.

Part 1 is being accelerated to end of today. Our agreement with cirthix/zis is that we're first in these kinds of breaking "Better Than 60Hz" technologies.

Blur Busters earn zero money from this monitor as it has no Amazon Affiliate links, so our current main gain from this is to gain more readers/audience by being first in 480Hz. Linus has millions of mainstream followers, while we focus on our niche, so we're very dependent on being the 1st in the world to advocate these types of issues (LightBoost, Blur Reduction, 240Hz, 480Hz, etc, etc) to gain an audience despite our advanced nature.

We were one of the first in the world to break the news of cirthix's 240Hz developments. Year 2013. It was the real thing, even though it did not have overdrive.

phpBB [video]


240Hz LCD in year 2013.

And some forum members here, including Q83Ia7ta, played with these too.

Yes, our camera tests show 480 refresh cycles per second. It isn't fake 480 Hz that some skeptics are saying. Benefits may be argued due to the lack of overdrive and the technology chosen (LCD), but differences are still human-visible in TestUFO tests.

So you already know cirthix is the real deal -- he does refresh-rate wizardry ahead of monitor manufacturers.
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Vega
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Vega » 16 Aug 2017, 11:13

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
Vega wrote:As for 480 Hz, IMO not that relevant unless it comes along with a relevant resolution (IE: not 540p) and with a panel that could practically utilize that high of refresh rate/overdrive settings.
You're a believer in 480Hz at higher resolutions (and 480fps-capable GPUs), and you know that, don't you, Vega! ;)

LightBoost/CRT clarity on sample-and-hold without strobing. (dangles carrot)

However, many commentators and posters on the Net say 480Hz is worthless.

But both you and me know it isn't true, and while resolution is limited in this mode (reducing 480Hz benefits), this is still a 4K120 strobed panel -- massively useful in so many ways. That's fantastic into itself alone, too as well, for any 4K display on the market.

The 480Hz feature is just a bonus, despite lack of overdrive and not being an OLED panel. When you post about 480Hz, make sure you tell other readers on the Internet you're a believer (in the general principle of more Hz to reduce blur/persistence without strobing), since it's the only way to reduce persistence without strobing/impulsing/black frames.

It's both in our interests (you & me & motion blur reduction enthusiasts) avoid trying to discourage manufacturers from chasing 480 Hz OLEDs because they read customers saying 480Hz was useless. It's not in principle, as you've already said. ;)
Oh yes I am definitely a firm believer in high refresh rates and motion clarity. Saying 480 Hz is silly is nonsense. Heck, we both know 960 Hz is more of the "holy grail". I am also a very practical person. I've been around displays long enough to know it always comes down to the darn TCon. Getting that signal from your video output to the display at high bandwidth rates will always be the Achilles heel. With 48 Gbps, HDMI 2.1 could make huge strides in the regard but I feel it will be a troubled/delayed rollout due to the technical challenges of getting that amount of bandwidth certifiable distances over copper.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Aug 2017, 11:20

Yep!

But many readers reads your post, and can misinterpret.

(So, all you Hertz believers who are prominent in other discussion forums elsewhere -- think about that when you reply to others in other forums. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink. You're doing good, but I'm reading a lot of FUD lately after 480Hz went viral in Google News.

Many people don't realize that the only way to get "Blur Reduction without strobing/pulsing/flicker/CRT" is stupendous amounts of Hertz in a sample-and-hold display, even with 0ms GtG. instant pixel response.

Few people in year 1995 thought LCD could reliably do 240Hz, and nobody (outside an expensive government laboratory) back then understood how to separate persistence (MPRT) from response (GtG) nor understood the simple scientific principles behind things like http://www.testufo.com/displaymotionblur animations. Now websites such as TFTCentral, sweclockers, RTings, etc use our sub-$100 pursuit camera invention which is free for anyone to use to capture motion blur pictures better than $30,000 laboratory equipment -- I worked with researchers at NIST.gov / NOKIA / KELTEK to co-author a peer reviewed conference paper on my pursuit camera invention.

So, we're not charlatans at all when it comes to "We need 1000fps@1000Hz for CRT clarity on sample-and-hold displays" topic matters. (1ms strobe length on a blur-reducing display such as ULMB -- requires 1000fps@1000Hz on a sample-and-hold display -- to gain the exact same motion clarity without needing strobing, even with 0ms GtG instant pixel response)

Bear with me.... I'm replying bigger than necessary, but this thread is getting lots of incoming hits lately, so I have to quantify my replies a little more than usual with buttressed credentials... Many have never heard of Blur Busters before today, despite how much we've influenced the display industry in the past.
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masterotaku
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by masterotaku » 16 Aug 2017, 11:30

Chief Blur Buster wrote: The 480Hz feature is just a bonus, despite lack of overdrive and not being an OLED panel.
Mmmmm, no overdrive? I wonder how it will look. I've had three >120Hz monitors for now (all TN), and they don't look good in movement without overdrive (overdrive is very good in the PG278QR compared to the other monitors I had).

Can't wait to see the review :) .
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
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darzo
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by darzo » 16 Aug 2017, 11:53

So the 480hz isn't at 1920x1080 and there is no overdrive? How big of a deal is the lack of overdrive? And this person (we're talking about one person here?) had a 240hz monitor in 2013 but we didn't start using 240hz monitors until 2016-2017, professional players included? I'm starting to get the impression that for us plebs who are willing and able to buy a good 1920x1080 480hz monitor with Nvidia Volta but don't care to just discuss the technology this is a non-story.

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Re: EXCLUSIVE: We have a 480 Hz monitor!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Aug 2017, 13:04

It will still have the reduced input lag of 480Hz regardless of lack of overdrive.

I've got pursuit camera images. You'll see them tonight!
Lag tests are coming after this stage of tests.

For overdrive, depends. Good overdrive is extremely important to max-out the potential of an LCD panel. It's why the best 240Hz is much clearer than the worst 240Hz. Fortunately, 240Hz+bad overdrive is still clearer and better looking than an average 120Hz monitor with imperfect overdrive anyway -- so it simply means refresh rate needs to be higher to compensate for the lack of overdrive. I can see higher-resolution good-overdrive 480Hz monitors happening by the 2020s now. :D
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