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Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me pick

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Re: Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me p

Postby Glide » 04 Oct 2017, 20:04

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
frunction wrote:I don't think banding is the fault of the monitor manufacturer necessarily.

Correct. Banding is greatly influenced by a lot of the weakest links.

Many factors can reduce the precision of the colors (whether monitor, firmware drivers, GPU, game, source art, etc). All that 10-bit or 12-bit beauty can be for naught with a poorly compressed 8-bit JPG -- or a graphics driver -- or a monitor's poor processing.

Unfortunately, these TN panels often have bad factory calibrations, and lack the necessary controls to calibrate them in hardware.
My IPS PG348Q lacks these controls as well, but at least has an acceptable factory calibration.

So a lot of the people with these TN panels download an ICC profile, use a color calibrator, or play around with the picture settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel to fix the bad calibration.

Big mistake.

NVIDIA do not use dithering with LUT adjustments unless the active application outputs a >8-bit signal. So that ICC profile you installed to fix the calibration is going to make the banding much worse.
Even on a native 10-bit panel (with a ≥10-bit input), using an ICC profile increases the amount of banding - though its impact is greatly reduced.
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Re: Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me p

Postby lexebidar » 05 Oct 2017, 00:35

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
lexebidar wrote:One thing I've noticed is the very weirdly looking black screen when monitor is starting. It looks like crumbled paper. Maybe it's clouding. I am not sure

You might be seeing power-up behavior such as a panel in its natural unpowered state or latent static charge (if backlight turns on before electricity hits the LCD panel). This is likely what is happening if you never see it again after powering up. For this sort of thing, if you bring up a black screen -- do you see the same issue? Also, check dark gray fields too. TN vs VA vs IPS have different black characteristics and artifacts (e.g. IPS glow, VA gamma behaviors, etc)

here are both photos.
Both overexposed. One less and one more.

On black screen with something on it, the black depth and uniformity looks great. I am surprised. Better than bit overexposed picture with wallapaper (looks more uniform in reality).
https://imgur.com/a/ELnSe
The second image of black screen is overexposed and those horizontal cloudy patches through the middle can be seen very slightly in dark room when looking at whole black screen. It does not look that bad in reality. Can be easily seen with black screen when looking from extreme top angle. Not sure if other panels have this too and if it would be worth replacing. Probably not worth it because it looks good in real use
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Re: Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me p

Postby jorimt » 05 Oct 2017, 08:17

My XB252Q has the exact same thing, only it's mostly one horizontal patch/streak of brightness smack dab in the middle of the screen, and slightly more noticeable than yours.

Since yours and mine have the same panel, but are entirely different brands, I doubt you'd find one featuring this panel without some form of it. It's simply a minor edge-lit/diffusion layer issue.
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Re: Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me p

Postby lexebidar » 05 Oct 2017, 08:40

That's good to hear... I mean I would hope Your asus would not have the issue but at the same time it's good to hear there is no point in replacing. It is mostly only possible to see this patches when I turn off computer and stand from desk(until screen turns off). From above it's easy to see... but not bad in normal use.
Anyway - The only reason I didnt got pg258q or xb252q over AOC is price and design. AOC is simply a bit cheaper here and I like the stand.

It's less visible with lower brightness so you can try that with Your panel if You haven't already.
Any way to reasonably measure gamma and raise it in windows reliably besides monitor settings ?

Also... If a game is 60fps only, ULMB seems to have no effect, so gsync is ok to use. If I want to run ULMB, then it's best to borderless vsync right? So far I've only tried doom3 bfg in 120fps/hz mode with strobing and it's great. not sure what pulse width I like it with yet.

Some experimenting is required but it's a good fun. Not sure if I want to run old games in gsync 238fps or 144hz ulmb with vsync hehe.
Thanks for help guys! I know I've chnaged my mind in this topic like 5 times but it's all in a name of research!
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Re: Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me p

Postby RealNC » 05 Oct 2017, 08:56

lexebidar wrote:If I want to run ULMB, then it's best to borderless vsync right?

Nope. ULMB or not, if you use vsync, the best method (if you have a fast enough PC) is to use the "low latency vsync" method:

https://www.blurbusters.com/howto-low-lag-vsync-on

Even though not mentioned in the article, you need fullscreen for that to work well.
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Re: Do all TN G-sync monitors have banding issues? Help me p

Postby jorimt » 05 Oct 2017, 10:03

lexebidar wrote:It's less visible with lower brightness so you can try that with Your panel if You haven't already.

I calibrated mine with an i1Display Pro colorimeter and DisplayCal software to 2.2 gamma, 6500k color temp, 120 nits (7 out of 100 on the brightness slider).

lexebidar wrote:Any way to reasonably measure gamma and raise it in windows reliably besides monitor settings ?

Not really. You'd need a colorimeter, and even then, you have to use an ICC profile to apply the gamma adjustment, which can actually introduce more banding. ICC profile support is also hit or miss in many games (it doesn't apply in a lot of them), so you're just better off using the monitor's built-in settings and leaving the Windows calibration/Nvidia control panel's color settings at defaults.
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