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Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

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Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby puzaq » 19 Sep 2017, 11:02

Hi everyone!
Are there low motion blur monitors for use with ps4?
Many games are only 30 or 60 fps max. When there is a choice, I prefer to set 60fps instead of 30fps 4k, so I think 1080p monitor would be enough. Maybe 24 or 27 inches. Right now I have it hooked up to old sony bravia 1080p tv (like 2007 old) and it's so slow I cannot get used to it.
I have this older pc with gtx770, so I want to move ps4 to the desk (for other reasons too) and use Pc and ps4 under one monitor. Gaming mostly only on ps4. pc for youtube, browsing and some indie games for most part. Now I have 16:10 screen with washed out colors(samsung from around 2008)... so totally a no go for ps4.

Edit: sorry I forgot to tell - I hope to keep it below 400$. Is HDR even anything to keep in mind?
Sometimes we play coop or I am showing something to my fiancee on pc. TN angles on my samsung are a bit wonky but we never look at it from below so it's no bad.
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby lexlazootin » 19 Sep 2017, 13:37

You can get a Dell, they typically have very low input latency and good colour, you can get a TN/IPS depending on what you're willing to handle.

But if you want a monitor with back light blur reduction i'm not sure.
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby jorimt » 19 Sep 2017, 13:41

I'm certain the Chief will eventually chime in with more details, but I'm pretty sure that there are a few BenQ TN models that allow strobing on consoles with our utility:
http://www.blurbusters.com/benq/strobe-utility/
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby puzaq » 19 Sep 2017, 14:06

What dell Lexlazootin? I am open to good 24 or 27" ips monitor ideas. It will probably have a bit worse contrast but colors should be better and more even right? I went to the dell site and there are plenty of monitors

Jorimt - how would that tool work with ps4? and wouldn't 60hz cause eyestrain? I only had LG crt in about 2003 and I remember my eyes were tired and that was gone when lcd was introduced. I was expecting the strobing could be done at 120hz and game at 30 or 60 so it divides evenly and magically works. Sorry I don't have any idea how this works :oops:
anyway - images of that super clear ufo look very promising !
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 19 Sep 2017, 15:10

Low-motion-blur LCDs for 60Hz content (Playstation 4) is currently very limited in options. The only PS4-easily accessible options would be TN panel based.

The ULMB 60Hz hack also works with certain IPS panels (especially 165 Hz IPS) but only works with an NVIDIA GPU which the PlayStation 4 does not have.

Depending on your priorities, you may have to ditch the "low motion blur" portion of the equation, or choose a 60Hz-single-strobe-capable HDTV (some of which RTINGS.com reviews). With computer monitors, reduced motion blur is much easier to achieve with higher frame rate PC-based content at this time, than with console content.

This limitation is partially because of monitor manufacturer decisions not to provide single-strobe 60Hz support.
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 19 Sep 2017, 15:34

puzaq wrote:Jorimt - how would that tool work with ps4? and wouldn't 60hz cause eyestrain? I only had LG crt in about 2003 and I remember my eyes were tired and that was gone when lcd was introduced. I was expecting the strobing could be done at 120hz and game at 30 or 60 so it divides evenly and magically works. Sorry I don't have any idea how this works :oops:
anyway - images of that super clear ufo look very promising !

The monitor is reprogrammed via the Utility. Once it's configured, you can swap cables and it will keep strobing at 60Hz with PS4.

But if your eyes hurt with 60Hz flicker, do not try this, that's not what you want. There are other options, however.

For strobe-based blur reduction, you need one strobe per frame for perfect butter-smooth CRT motion clarity (no stutter, no double images). Doing a frame rate lower than flicker rate will create multi-image effects. Remember when 30fps created double images (CRT 30fps@60Hz). Same problem occurs at 60fps@120Hz, too!

To fix that and get stutterless single-image CRT motion clarity, you require the triple match: stroberate = refreshrate = framerate
See: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3555

If you dislike flicker or double image effects, you must use high frame rate (e.g. 120 frames per second) to achieve high flicker rate. To do that, may require require moving from console gaming to PC gaming, and using a high-Hz monitor to gain blur-free flicker-free CRT motion clarity. Or putting up with the big input lag of traditional frame rate interpolation (e.g. Sony MotionFlow, etc).

The only way to get blur-free, without flicker and without double-images, is really high Hz either way. Whether it's fake frames (TV interpolation) or genuine frames (high-Hz gaming monitors). And if you want to avoid strobing at any Hz, the Hz necessary to eliminate motion blur, becomes really super-high (we've recently tested 480Hz, by the way! Though this is a display for computers, not consoles)

Currently, if you hate motion blur and hate 60Hz CRTs, your best bet is to get a high-end PC gaming system, and a good high-Hz monitor (I'd recommend 240Hz G-SYNC). That way, you can get low motion blur either way, strobed or nonstrobed. Either completely flicker-free strobe-free 4.1ms persistence (via GSYNC, 1/240sec persistence) or high-144Hz-strobed <1ms (via ULMB, 1ms strobe flash).

Persistence is frame visibility length either way, whether it's strobed or the refresh cycle length (of non-strobed):

Image

Assumes framerate = refreshrate (And = stroberate, when strobed).

So your options really, are:

  1. Get a 60Hz CRT
    Flickers a lot, but zero-blur with consoles.
    -
  2. Get a 60Hz single-strobe-capable monitor like early BenQ-branded XL2720Z.
    Flickers a lot, but zero-blur with consoles.
    -
  3. Get a 60Hz-strobe-capable HDTV. RTINGS.com tells you which HDTVs provide a single-strobe mode.
    Flickers a lot, but zero-blur with consoles.
    -
  4. Get a 120Hz strobe-capable display that can strobe on a 60Hz console input (BenQ/Zowie displays can do it).
    Much less flicker, no blur, but double-images with 60fps, and quadruple-images with 30fps
    -
  5. Switch to PC gaming, high-end GPU, high-Hz monitor
    Much better flicker-free blur-reduced experience. Using either:
    -- Strobe modes above your flicker sensitivity threshold (85fps@85Hz, 100fps@100Hz, 120fps@120Hz)
    -- Nonstrobed blur reduction via brute Hertz (240fps@240Hz nonstrobed)

Remember there's a lot of brands of Motion Blur Reduction strobe backlights, such as ULMB, LightBoost, DyAc, Turbo240, etc. Some of these brands only work with PCs, some are locked to a minimum Hz (e.g. 85Hz), while a very few also work with consoles. The inability to do 60Hz strobe flicker with consoles comes from two reasons:
(A) from vendor-locking (e.g. NVIDIA GPU needed for ULMB, preventing use of ULMB on consoles)
(B) from liability concerns (e.g. epilepsy from 60Hz flicker, preventing use with consoles)

So bringing back the CRT-motion-clarity days while saying goodbye to CRT flicker, requires pretty much defacto option (5) above.
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby puzaq » 19 Sep 2017, 18:12

Now my head hurts. That is a whole article of an answer. Hope You are somehow getting good money out of this because this seems like a lot of work !!! :D
Now things are much more clear. Had no idea this is so involved. I read this forums from time to time but this is the most point by point explanation I've seen in one place.

I do remember a flicker from CRT era. 120hz was much better back then (My crt only went up to 75 but friend had 120).
But I don't remember any double images when my framerate dropped. How does that look? Are the images slightly overlayed? Is it like crosstalk? I don't have a history of epilepsy but I remember 60hz crt felt kinds sickening compared to better refresh rates and lcd tech. I do loved them anyway... shame I never got around to buying 120hz one.
I do plan on upgrading my pc at some point so points 4 and 5 are not out of the question. Which Benq is recommended more for general use? Xl2411? Even if I upgrade it will not be gtx 1080ti or most high end card at the moment on the market... so I doubt I will be able to crank 144hz in every new game and I am not the most competitive player. I just wanted visual clarity and input lag don't matter much for 30/60fps games on console or pc(unless its like 30ms).

As far as PS4 usage goes, it seems there will be some flicker or other problems that way or another... So maybe it would be a good idea to buy a general usage 60hz monitor of higher quality. Any recommendations in that area? Maybe at least something that have pixel response times better than average? Or I might end up buying 2. One now just for ps4 and one probably next year when I upgrade gpu.
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby lexlazootin » 20 Sep 2017, 09:38

Which Benq is recommended more for general use? Xl2411?


The colour accuracy on the Benq XL2411 is trash and the last few 60hz Benq that were for gaming also looked like trash that's why i don't recommend them. The non-gaming Benq's look fine if not great but have a bunch of latency which might not be quite ideal for gaming. also running backlight flickering on a LCD at 60hz is pretty painful in my opinion.

Dell actually tries to have accurate looking monitors. It sounds like the Dell SE2717H IPS 27" would be a good choice, it's 27" 1080p IPS which means it will look good at any angle and it won't have extreme lag.You can get it for around $180 on amazon.
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby puzaq » 20 Sep 2017, 13:15

lexlazootin wrote:
Which Benq is recommended more for general use? Xl2411?


The colour accuracy on the Benq XL2411 is trash and the last few 60hz Benq that were for gaming also looked like trash that's why i don't recommend them. The non-gaming Benq's look fine if not great but have a bunch of latency which might not be quite ideal for gaming. also running backlight flickering on a LCD at 60hz is pretty painful in my opinion.

Dell actually tries to have accurate looking monitors. It sounds like the Dell SE2717H IPS 27" would be a good choice, it's 27" 1080p IPS which means it will look good at any angle and it won't have extreme lag.You can get it for around $180 on amazon.


This one looks rally neat. Is it worth looking at their other models? I don't mind the price of ultrasharp ones if they are better.
Overall I am browsing Dell website and they have a lot of models... If I were to drop the 144hz game, then maybe it's worth getting 4k? How would 1080p games look on 4k monitor?
Those models look kinda interesting besides the one you posted: U2417H/J/A(?!), S2418NX(seems to have hdr?!), P2417H, SE2417HG and 27 " monitors: S2718NX (also apparently with hdr), P2717H.

They don't really state what is the difference between U,P,S other than only U seems to have factory calibration and height adjustable stand which could be useful. They do also have 4K monitors and G-sync monitors. One alienware with TN panel and 1440p models. All rather expensive.

I had no idea 4K and HDR monitors are so easily available. I thought they are still not out :oops:
Dell have U2718Q which is both HDR and 4k. Price is a bit high but maybe it's worth it? Depends how it does 1080p scaling
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Re: Low motion blur monitor for PS4 ?

Postby jorimt » 20 Sep 2017, 13:53

puzaq wrote:I had no idea 4K and HDR monitors are so easily available. I thought they are still not out :oops:

4k, yes. 4k 120Hz+ and/or HDR, no. Those are coming next year.

The "HDR" available on some current models (sans the extremely expensive, non-gaming Dell UP2718Q that you mentioned; link is to the TFT Central review) is an approximation; the best these monitors can output is 400-600 nits, which isn't near the brightness needed to reproduce true HDR10 content, which requires a full array local dimming backlight, a 10-bit panel, wide color gamut, and 1000 nits peak brightness.

puzaq wrote:Dell have U2718Q which is both HDR and 4k. Price is a bit high but maybe it's worth it? Depends how it does 1080p scaling

While it true the Dell supports actual HDR, again, it is expensive, only 60Hz, and not intended for gaming, but for professional use. There are also a lot of HDR teething issues on PC at this point (read the review I linked above), so you're better off waiting for the platform to mature a bit, especially if you are going to spend so much money on a display that will become obsolete in a year or less with the true high refresh HDR gaming monitors releasing by then (and probably near the same price).
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