Blur Busters Forums

Who you gonna call? The Blur Busters! For Everything Better Than 60Hz™ Skip to content

240Hz Frameskipping Thread (UPDATE: fixed except XF270HA)

Everything about displays and monitors. 120Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz, 4K, 1440p, input lag, display shopping, monitor purchase decisions, compare, versus, debate, and more. Questions? Just ask!

240Hz Frameskipping Thread (UPDATE: fixed except XF270HA)

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 09 Nov 2017, 10:21

Notty_PT wrote:I understand what you say and no doubts, objectively speaking they are the fastest monitors money can buy. But in my situation, I use to connect a console to the monitor aswell. Those 240hz screens at 60hz HDMI are slow compared to 100€ monitors get my point? If I was to spend 500€ on a monitor, I wanted it to be fast in every situation. Altho it still wins against 144hz on PC gaming, I know it can do better when the 60hz input lag is on par with other models. It will be even faster.

Fair enough.
Current 240Hz monitors aren't optimized for console-gaming. They can do it (and lower lag than most TVs) but indeed, 5ms more lag for PS4 or XB1 is a good consideration for console eSports players. While moot for PC eSports, and those not planning to use 60Hz, it is a indeed a consideration for the most competitive of console players.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
To support Blur Busters: Official List of Best Gaming Monitors | G-SYNC | FreeSync | Ultrawide
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44

Re: AOC AG251FZ 240Hz frameskipping fix

Postby HalfwayDead » 28 Nov 2017, 10:07

Hi again,
I'm very sorry for letting you wait so long. I was kinda busy, sent the monitor back and then was gone for that weekend and then I forgot :D

I did test a bit more though and it only got more and more confusing as I did. https://1drv.ms/x/s!Av9du64LKhjw8iZaHgZS4riXnJx9 I didn't write down everything but just when I found an improvement (orange at the right) because that saved me a lot of time. My strategy was to start out with a low line count (front porch, back porch and sync width) and then go up until I get a good result for the 2nd time. Since the results all seemed to be cyclical good results came back every now and then.
And at first I was excited. I was getting better and better results. Required me to even go up exposure time of 1.3 seconds to capture 2 frameskips. Then I hit a setting with 0 frameskipping. Waited 5 mins and still no frameskipping so I was super happy. But resetting the monitor again with the same settings and all of the sudden there was a frameskip every 95 frames again... So I searched a little further and found myself in an area where the amount of frameskips seems completely random. So I went back to my best setting and tried resetting it like 5 times until I had no frameskips again. That time it didn't last forever though.

So TL;DR:
With some settings there is a different amount of frameskipping every reset. I even found a setting that had a frameskip every 42 frames on one reset and 150 on the next one. So there was basically no way to tell whether some of the settings were good or not.

As for the below 240Hz testing you suggested. I tested some of the best settings as well as the factory setting at down to as low as 220Hz and it was frameskipping at exactly the same rate. No frameskipping at default 200Hz but that's so much lower you might aswell get a 165Hz monitor if you're fine with missing out on 40 frames.
HalfwayDead
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Jul 2017, 07:27

Re: AOC AG251FZ 240Hz frameskipping fix

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 28 Nov 2017, 13:57

HalfwayDead wrote:And at first I was excited. I was getting better and better results. Required me to even go up exposure time of 1.3 seconds to capture 2 frameskips. Then I hit a setting with 0 frameskipping. Waited 5 mins and still no frameskipping so I was super happy.

You tried the same timings again (ToastyX) and you couldn't reproduce this again?

Can you verify that every single number was exactly the same (exact dotclock, exact Horizontal numbers, exact Vertical numbers)? Is it possible one number was off (e.g. refresh off by 0.001? Horizontal Total off by a few, 2040 versus 2080? Wrong Sync numbers even if Total same?)

Is it possible for you to load the same numbers again that you thought was not frameskipping, and experiment with adjacent numbers? Also, make sure monitor overlays are turned off (no menus, no crosshairs, etc).

To help incentivize keeping going further, I'll give a $30 Amazon gift certificate (Dec 15) to the first person to find ToastyX settings that stops an XF270HA from frameskipping.

So far:
AF251FZ -- frameskipping solved
XG2530 -- frameskipping solved
XF270HA -- the one we're trailblazing
XG258Q -- untested
GSYNC 240Hz -- no frameskipping issue
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
To support Blur Busters: Official List of Best Gaming Monitors | G-SYNC | FreeSync | Ultrawide
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44

240Hz frameskipping fix

Postby HalfwayDead » 01 Dec 2017, 19:51

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Can you verify that every single number was exactly the same (exact dotclock, exact Horizontal numbers, exact Vertical numbers)? Is it possible one number was off (e.g. refresh off by 0.001? Horizontal Total off by a few, 2040 versus 2080? Wrong Sync numbers even if Total same?)


[Tests on XF270HA]
Yes, the first thing I did when it wasn't skipping for 5 mins was take a screenshot and write it down in the spreadsheet. Image Then I tried setting it to 241Hz to see if it would work on an OC. And it didn't so I set it back to 240 and it was frameskipping again. And I didn't even need to open the resolution panel and change anything to get different frameskipping results. I was just running restart64.exe over and over again and getting a different result every time.
This randomness didn't happen at every setting. The intial test in the spreadsheet are the same every time. But every setting that got better results than 1 every 88 frames, did so randomly.

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Is it possible for you to load the same numbers again that you thought was not frameskipping, and experiment with adjacent numbers? Also, make sure monitor overlays are turned off (no menus, no crosshairs, etc).


No, I sent it back 2 weeks ago. But I did some adjacent numbers testing and monitor overlays were all off but as I said I only wrote down the good results and since most of them seemed to be random anyway I felt like I was gaining no information anymore and stopped. Image
HalfwayDead
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 Jul 2017, 07:27

Re: AOC AG251FZ 240Hz frameskipping fix

Postby spectral » 16 Feb 2018, 20:16

Did some edit with new #FIX nr. 2 hoping that this might help people that fix nr.1 wasnt working for them
spectral
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2017, 12:26

Re: AOC AG251FZ 240Hz frameskipping fix

Postby A Solid lad » 03 Mar 2018, 09:02

HalfwayDead wrote:Hi there,
so I just got my Acer XF270HA which has the 27" 240Hz panel in it and it has some major frame skipping as well. I've tried everything from the monitor default 56-66 lines and sadly it did not prevent the frame skipping although it seems to happen a lot less than at default.
Does anyone who actually knows what these settings mean have any more ideas that I could try? Should I just send the monitor back within 14 days since I doubt the Acer could fix it that fast and I don't want to be stuck with this major frame skipping issue.

I've bought the same monitor...and I'm in the same boat. I still have a couple of days, before the 14 days end... and I don't want to be stuck with this garbage.

*EDIT: OK, read through the whole thread... seems like you went thru the same aggrevating guessing game with timings as I did... only thing is, you did it for way more time than I.
Sending this garbage back... I regret not finding this thread before I even ordered it.
Youtube channel: youtube.com/TheSolidlad
Steam profile with PC Specs: steamcommunity.com/id/TheSolidlad
Monitors I've owned/tried: Benq XL2411Z, Alienware AW2518Hf, Acer XF270HA, LG 27GK750F-B
Monitors I currently own: Alienware AW2518H, IBM p275
User avatar
A Solid lad
 
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 08:07
Location: Slovakia

240Hz Frameskipping Thread (UPDATE: fixed except XF270HA)

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Mar 2018, 09:22

Oh!

Damn -- You got the one 240Hz monitor (out of the 13 models now shipping) we haven't solved frameskipping in, yet. :(

Can you try HalfwayDead's numbers and post some smartphone photographs here? If you want to ship it back today -- I understand!

If you get a different 240Hz, then here is the whitelist:

AF251FZ -- frameskipping solved user-side
XG2530 -- frameskipping solved user-side (but they were also wonderfully fast to fix it in their firmware, too!)
XF270HA -- the one we're trailblazing
XG258Q -- untested
GSYNC 240Hz -- no frameskipping issue

I'll bump the Amazon gift certificate to $50 now. There is no expiration date -- this bounty remains good until someone finds ToastyX settings that fixes the frameskipping on an XF270HA.

XF270HA doesn't exist in our monitor lists because of frameskipping. We removed XF270HA from the monitor lists below a while back until the manufacturer has fixed it -- but I haven't heard back from Acer yet.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter!
To support Blur Busters: Official List of Best Gaming Monitors | G-SYNC | FreeSync | Ultrawide
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44

Re: 240Hz Frameskipping Thread (UPDATE: fixed except XF270HA

Postby A Solid lad » 03 Mar 2018, 10:51

I'd most definitely recommend adding it to that list, (as it IS a 240hz display) while also noting that it skips frames, and there's no known fix for that yet.
I'm saying this because, if this would have been the case, I wouldn't have ordered it...

I saw the monitor listed on "*************.com" while knowing that it is not listed here... I thought I found a hidden gem. (since it is 27" and goes for only 350~ eur)

So... yeah. Please add it, while noting the frame skipping, so that future buyers could avoid this trap.

On a sidenote:
I've bought another 240hz monitor, that is the Alienware 25 (AW2518Hf) and was really impressed by it.
Not only do the colors and blacks look way better than any TN I've ever seen (minus maybe this acer...since the colors are actually even better on it out of the box, compared to the Alienware...which already has good ones), it also has a nice and responsive OSD, a sturdy stand and good looks... but most importantly, feels really snappy (more snappy than both my benq xl2411z and the acer) and has as good motion blur (result of overdrive implementation) as it's G-sync enabled version (AW2518H) does.

Can wholly recommend it to anyone looking for a 240hz monitor. (and even more so for the low price of 300 eur that I got it for)

The only gripe I have with it is, that it is too small for me.
After using this acer, my idea that I'd see people/objects more easily (and as a result perform better) on a bigger screen with the same relatively low 1080p resolution (as on my xl2411z) got reinforced. All of it turned out to be true, at least for me.


...SO, right now I'm looking for a 27" 240hz monitor.
My candidates are as follows:

Acer Predator XB272
Benq XL2740
LG 27GK750F

I'm trying to gather information on those.
k2viper is my source when it comes to the LG, but I'm pretty much in the dark regarding the other two...
There's a surprisingly low amount of content on the web about the xl2740...even though it is made by Benq and those are usually hyped...
I haven't started researching the Predator just yet...but that one's stupidly expensive, and I don't see it going down in price anytime soon.
Not that the others aren't... it's just that they don't have the predator badge, which makes it more likely that a price drop will occur.

Anyway, I have my doubts about all of them... the LG's suspect for poor quality, and higher input lag than the Alienware or the Benq.
The acer is...acer... never really had much trust for that brand... I'd lump it in with AOC. They aren't maximalists or anything...
The Benq is suspect for having way worse colors than any of the others mentioned... and I don't want to go back to having really trashy colors, after trying the Alienware 25 and XF270HA, which showed me how good a TN can look, despite having a high refresh rate and no real focus on colors.

So..yeah.
The brand I'd trust having both good colors and low input lag would be ASUS and Dell, but neither have put out a 27" 240hz panel yet...
I mean, I have nothing against other brands if they actually deliver a good product, I'm not gonna dismiss it just because of the brand, but none of the mentioned monitors have been extensively tested and compared to good 240hz monitors, like the Alieanware 25 or the ASUS PG258Q in regards to colors, motion blur (@non strobed) and input lag.
Last edited by A Solid lad on 03 Mar 2018, 17:48, edited 3 times in total.
Youtube channel: youtube.com/TheSolidlad
Steam profile with PC Specs: steamcommunity.com/id/TheSolidlad
Monitors I've owned/tried: Benq XL2411Z, Alienware AW2518Hf, Acer XF270HA, LG 27GK750F-B
Monitors I currently own: Alienware AW2518H, IBM p275
User avatar
A Solid lad
 
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 08:07
Location: Slovakia

Re: 240Hz Frameskipping Thread (UPDATE: fixed except XF270HA

Postby k2viper » 03 Mar 2018, 11:08

A Solid lad wrote:There's a surprisingly low amount of content on the web about the xl2740...even though it is made by Benq and those are usually hyped...


XL2740 is just released, a bit later then LG released their, 2740 isnt available in Russia while LG is available more then a month. Also it can be seen that XL2740 costs 100-150eur more. There was an owner in this forum (he posted some info, no pics but he mention that his display is having coil whine noise. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3803
XB272 is reviewed by its owner lexlazootin viewtopic.php?t=3490
User avatar
k2viper
 
Posts: 162
Joined: 23 Jan 2018, 06:30

Re: 240Hz Frameskipping Thread (UPDATE: fixed except XF270HA

Postby A Solid lad » 03 Mar 2018, 11:36

k2viper wrote:
A Solid lad wrote:There's a surprisingly low amount of content on the web about the xl2740...even though it is made by Benq and those are usually hyped...


XL2740 is just released, a bit later then LG released their, 2740 isnt available in Russia while LG is available more then a month. Also it can be seen that XL2740 costs 100-150eur more. There was an owner in this forum (he posted some info, no pics but he mention that his display is having coil whine noise. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3803
XB272 is reviewed by its owner lexlazootin viewtopic.php?t=3490

Yeah, I know about that thread. (the xf270ha also has coil whine btw, the alienware doesn't)
But I'd like more info before even seriously considering it...:

Pics or a video about overdrive overshoot,
color and contrast quality compared to other high refresh rate monitors,
input lag felt compared to known lowest lag displays, like the pg258q, xl2540(6) and Alienware 25...
Youtube channel: youtube.com/TheSolidlad
Steam profile with PC Specs: steamcommunity.com/id/TheSolidlad
Monitors I've owned/tried: Benq XL2411Z, Alienware AW2518Hf, Acer XF270HA, LG 27GK750F-B
Monitors I currently own: Alienware AW2518H, IBM p275
User avatar
A Solid lad
 
Posts: 118
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 08:07
Location: Slovakia

PreviousNext

Return to General — Displays, Graphics & More

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests