link wrote:Okay thanks guys. So, what do you think about the two articles that I linked above, do you think that they are just BS?
They're accurate but those do not help with "which monitor should I get" shopping.
Not bullshit, but it's apples versus oranges. It's like trying to diagnose a broken bone using a thermometer. Or educating me about baseball by telling me hockey rules. Or trying to fix a car using a cake icing bowl. Wrong tool for the wrong job.
Ask yourself: Are you bothered by flicker? Are you seeing banding/line artifacts? Is a flicker artifact annoying you?
That said, the Nature "possible to perceive up to 500Hz" is quite correct.
And it is possible to perceive up to 10,000Hz indirectly via phantom array effects.
(From
lighting industry research but also applicable to display PWM-dimming too)
Also, great demos of seeing artifacts caused by Hertz limitations:
http://www.testufo.com/mousearrow
http://www.testufo.com/persistence
These problems don't even disappear at 500Hz. Yet. It's still human-beneficial to keep raising monitor Hz, even despite the "diminishing points of returns".
We tested
a prototype 480Hz LCD, and we were still able to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz vs 480Hz.
One of the 4 different ways we were able to tell them apart:
Today, there's no jack-of-all-trades screen that passes everybody 100% perfectly. There will always (at this moment) be screens that some humans are happier than others, and a different screen that the other humans are happier with. What I'm trying to say, there's currently no single-screen that satisfies everyone.
Example1: The most completely flicker-free screens with best colors, will often have more motion blur for example.
Example2: The fastest screens with least motion blur often have worse colors, so you have to trade-off or pick-your-poison or compromise.
Example3: Stutter sensitivity versus color sensitivity versus brightness sensitivity versus flicker sensitivity versus motion blur sensitivity. No monitor can solve all the above, all simultaneously, all at the same time, perfectly. So a different model might solve 3 out of 5 of the above.
Therefore, I cannot recommend anyone a single "perfect" screen that will satisfy their eyes. That perfect screen, just, simply does not exist. In fact, 8% of human population is color blind, and a bigger than 8% of population while not color blind are "less picky than usual about colors" -- being more, for example, bothered by flicker. Other humans, however, are not bothered by flicker at all, and totally prefer seeing less motion blur (closer to plasma or CRT quality).
That said, unsynchronized PWM for dimming is quite evil and is unnecessary. (That's to avoid dissing properly synchronized one-pulse-per-refresh PWM that's used for motion blur reduction, ala plasmas & CRTs). That said, synchronized strobing is currently a workaround (fairly good, if strobing at sufficiently high refresh rate, just like a high-Hz CRT or plasma) since simultaneously "blurless+flickerfree" requires currently unobtainium Hertz to have perfectly sharp blurfree motion clarity without the use of properly synchronized strobe as a means of motion-blur-reduction.
The workaround of doing the (usually) beneficial blur-reducing flicker is how NVIDIA ULMB / LightBoost, as well as BenQ/Zowie DyAc and ASUS ELMB works. So there's bad unsynchronized PWM-dimming and good blur-reduction PWM (but some people still get eye strain from the latter). It really depends. The good news is you can turn on/off ULMB (or whatever mode) as a user preference. When you turn off ULMB, you're in a completely flicker-free mode on modern newer gaming monitors but you have the problem of lots of motion blur. When you turn on ULMB, you have flicker (like a 120Hz CRT, so it's not bad) but the motion blur is gone. Sometimes one or the other is the lesser of evil for a specific individual.
Anyway:
So the important question is to ask yourself: What current problems are you having with current monitor technology? Are you seeing a specific artifact that is currently bothering your eyes? I'd be happy to help out here; just need more information in the correct apples-versus-apples ballpark --
tell me problems you're seeing these days, today, that you see in SCREENs (nothing else, please) and I can help diagnose a possible solution of a screen that might help your problem you see with a specific screen. What currently bothers you today about displays? I'll try my best to help find you the most ideal display that pleases your eyes the most.
There are many sources of flicker artifacts and other display motion artifacts.
- Inversion flicker artifacts (Fine texture artifacts flickering in solid colors; lines, plaid, crosshatch, etc)
http://www.testufo.com/inversion
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion
This is a bigger problem with TN panels than IPS panels
-
- FRC flicker artifacts (noise similar to an analog TV channel with no signal).
Usually fainter flicker than inversion artifacts. Using higher Hz will make this harder to notice than plasma/DLP dithering. Solution is 120Hz+
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- PWM-dimming flicker artifacts (serrated-edge artifacts during motion), http://www.testufo.com/ghosting and has a PWM-dimming pursuit camera photograph at LCD Motion Blur 101
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- Stutter artifacts (low-frame-rate motion can look very edge-flickery), http://www.testufo.com/stutter (try out all of them)
Stutter sensitive people should consider G-SYNC and FreeSync
-
- Blur artifacts tied to frame rate limitations on flicker-free displays (common sample-and-hold LCDs), http://www.testufo.com
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- Color artifacts, viewing angle artifacts, etc.
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- Solid-screen inconsistency artifacts (IPS glow, VA gamma nonuniformities, etc)
-
- Other artifacts you see
You're welcome!
Apologies I have to ask for more information (from the correct ballpark) to try and help solve the problems you have with today's screens.
Generic Desktop Monitor Recommendation for flicker-sensitive people who's also bothered by stutter
Generic advice is to get a 144Hz or 240Hz LCD monitor with VRR capability and a powerful GPU, if you want to have the smoothest flickerfree images with the least motion blur without resorting to strobing. However, this makes some grave assumptions (e.g. that you weren't sensitive to minor LCD inversion artifacts common to TN panels)
-- Modern LCDs have a PWM-free dimming mode, so no flicker worry
-- Variable refresh rate capability will further minimize stutter (and the erratic edge-flicker effects that stutters can produce).
-- Higher framerates will eliminate edge-flicker-effects of stutter
-- Higher framerates will minimize motion blur
However, this means TN, which has somewhat poorer colors and viewing angles, and the potential appearance of possible inversion artifacts (a slight fainter flicker that appears sometimes on certain TN panels). The problem is, I'm not sure what kind of flicker artifact you're currently sensitive to, as FRC is not the only source of flicker. If you're also sensitive to inversion artifacts and you can tolerate other IPS quirks such as IPS glow, then the next generic recommendations fall through to getting a 165Hz IPS monitor. You will get more motion blurring, but still far less motion blurring and stutter visibility (less edge-flicker effects) than 60Hz.
Options:
Available Desktop Monitors: 240Hz TN and 165Hz IPS
However, if you can express your problems with today's screens, I'd love to hear them out, and can try to give a recommendation. And if you're getting a screen for desktop use or television use, etc.