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Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 10 Oct 2017, 15:36
by link
Chief Blur Buster wrote:

Not bullshit, but it's apples versus oranges. It's like trying to diagnose a broken bone using a thermometer. Or educating me about baseball by telling me hockey rules. Or trying to fix a car using a cake icing bowl. Wrong tool for the wrong job. Ask yourself: Are you bothered by flicker? Are you seeing banding/line artifacts? Is a flicker artifact annoying you? :)
Anyway:

So the important question is to ask yourself: What current problems are you having with current monitor technology? Are you seeing a specific artifact that is currently bothering your eyes? I'd be happy to help out here; just need more information in the correct apples-versus-apples ballpark -- tell me problems you're seeing these days, today, that you see in SCREENs (nothing else, please) and I can help diagnose a possible solution of a screen that might help your problem you see with a specific screen. What currently bothers you today about displays? I'll try my best to help find you the most ideal display that pleases your eyes the most.




Unfortunately, I cannot pinpoint anything. I guess I am just looking for a display that covers as many bases as possible. At this time, my main goal is to eliminate any source of flicker and see if that is better suited for me.

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 10 Oct 2017, 15:49
by link
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
Unless, of course, he's looking for a television (HDTV) instead of a desktop monitor.
(I'll wait for link to answer that question)

The Samsung C24FG70 is a pretty good desktop monitor that meets "Better Than 60Hz" requirements.


I don't mind either. I'm prioritizing health.

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 10 Oct 2017, 15:51
by link
Also guys I came across this website that claims, if I understand correctly, that's even with no PWM there still is a PWM frequency at 60hz? Can someone please verify if this is true? https://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edg ... e-t3517739

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 10 Oct 2017, 17:39
by RealNC
link wrote:Also guys I came across this website that claims, if I understand correctly, that's even with no PWM there still is a PWM frequency at 60hz? Can someone please verify if this is true? https://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edg ... e-t3517739

That's a display that uses a PWM backlight. I'm not seeing anything there about "even with no PWM there still is a PWM frequency at 60hz."

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 11 Oct 2017, 16:05
by link
Guys so I'm hearing from a source that amd cards by default force dithering to be on. Is this true? Also I hear nvidia does not have dithering enabled. I'm also hearing from this source that since ps4 and Xbox one use amd chipsets that they also gave dithering enabled. Any validity to this? Even if this is the case having a true 8 bit panel would negate dithering anyway right?

I also hear Intel integrated graphics force dithering and there are some threads on Intel forums of people getting eye strain from it supposedly. Again I guess using a true 8 bit would override a hardware or software forcing dithering?

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 00:34
by link
Btw guys do oled screens use temporal dithering like 6 bit lcd would by flashing/alternating between 2 colors to create a different shade of color?

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 02:42
by link
Also guys another interesting thing. I tested on a samsung cfg70 which is supposed to have a true 8 bit panel for dithering. I ran some tests that test for dithering http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php and https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/Dithering/

Now here's the interesting part. I ran those patterns on the Playstation 4, Playstation 3, Nintendo switch and Xbox one. All consoles except for Xbox one showed a smooth image. Only the Xbox one showed banding. I opened these tests in the consoles respective browsers. My monitor was set in the sRGB mode with default settings. The consoles were also set with proper setting such as color space and color depth. Interesting thing is Xbox one specifically let's me pick 8 bit color depth and it still is showing banding. I don't know if the cfg70 is not a true 8 bit panel or the Xbox one is at fault or the other consoles are using dithering. Thoughts?

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 05:59
by lexlazootin
It's a lot more complicated then just looking for banding. the Xbox could have a shitty image rendering or adding saturation or some BS. Dithering can be so fast and well done you can't notice it. Honestly i think you're thinking too much into it. Get a true 8-bit display with no PWM and just enable 8-bit on your graphics card.

The dithering built into graphics drivers are probably for specific use cases were they 'downscale' 10bit images to 8bit using dithering. i doubt you will ever use it much unless watching a 10bit movie or something.

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2017, 13:46
by RealNC
lexlazootin wrote:and just enable 8-bit on your graphics card.

The graphics card always outputs 8-bit, AFAIK. 6-bit displays present themselves as 8-bit displays, otherwise they would have some rather annoying compatibility issues. (I don't even know if a display can even present itself as 6-bit, even if it wanted to.)

Re: Ensuring a flicker free gaming experience

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2017, 21:50
by link
So guys let's say you have true 8 bit panel and you feed it a source that's say it's 6 bit... Does that cause dithering i.e temporal dithering or thee flashing of colors back and forth that may cause flicker?

The reason I ask is because I hear the Nintendo switch is weak and may display colors in lower than 8 bits.

Also does color depth vary from game to game? For example can one game be encoded at 8 bit and some other at a lower or higher bit? I know HDR ready games would be higher right? But does that mean the console itself handles the color output or is it the game?