Dual Monitor Upgrade (from 1080p 60Hz)

[venomousdesigns]

To begin, I'm sure you've had a million of these posts before and I trawled through them all - was hoping to get some 'up to date' and 1:1 feedback. I've had my 2600k setup for over 6yrs and recently bought (on its way now) for a 8700k setup (yay!) but colour me surprised when I went to assess Monitor progression over the last 6yrs!

I've currently got 2xSamsung 2443BW (24" 1920x1200 60hz) which work perfectly fine with my Nvidia 970 currently, but with the purchase of my new 1080ti I'm now concerned that I'll have a fantastic 'engine' powering everything and a terrible 'body kit' (sorry for the car reference) to view it all on (not to mention my monitors do not have any modern day inputs!).

I've spent the last day (holy hell!) researching and stressing about what to do, all these terms I never knew existed and then the classic "should I wait for x and y" (4k 144hz etc). Compiling all this together it looks like I have the following options (keeping my desire for dual vs this new curved/ultrawide shenanigans):

• 1080p 24" 240hz
• 1440p 24" 144hz
• 1440p 27" 144hz
• 4k

As I mentioned above, I think I'd like to stay on dual monitors (from reading reviews of a single curved/ultrawide) from a purely productivity (1 Gaming and 1 Movie/Youtube/Twitch etc). I think the common rule of thumb here is a 'high' refresh rate monitor and then an IPS/lower refresh rate for the second - this brought me to the idea of going 1440p with a Dell S2417DG and pair with an IPS Dell P2418D.

I've heard good things about Acer/Asus as well - also I've considered looking at 27" 1440p instead of 24" 1440p but I'm concerned about my viewing distance (I sit about a 60cm away from my Monitors) - what are your thoughts?

I've heard there's a current (and not 'fixable') problem of having your primary 240hz/144hz monitor brought down to the lower 60hz of the secondary monitor when something GPU heavy is going on - that terrifies me as its such a waste to pay extra for 144hz just to have it stuck at 60hz! Apparently its due to W10, solutions (not always working) include one monitor into iGPU, bringing your refresh rate into a divisible of 60hz etc.

I'd love to try and keep the monitors looking the same, hence my idea of the Dells as I believe (correct me if I am wrong) they look almost identical - short of having to buy the 'higher' spec'd one twice for the perfect combination (I think it'll be a waste to have GSync/144hz+) on a monitor solely for Browsing/Videos...

Options so far...

1. ASUS PG248Q 24" (Gaming - 1080p 144hz TN) and pair one of my old Samsung 2443BW (Secondary - 1080p (1200p) 60hz) = $650
2. Acer XB241H 24" (Gaming - 1080p 144hz TN) and pair one of my old Samsung 2443BW (Secondary - 1080p (1200p) 60hz) = $529
3. Asus PG258Q 24" (Gaming - 1080p 240hz TN) and pair one of my old Samsung 2443BW (Secondary - 1080p (1200p) 60hz) = $800
4. Acer XB252Q 24" (Gaming - 1080p 240hz TN) and pair one of my old Samsung 2443BW (Secondary - 1080p (1200p) 60hz) = $800
5. Dell S2417DG 24" (Gaming - 1440p 165hz TN) and Dell P2418D 24" (Secondary - 1440p 60hz IPS) = $518 ($859 direct) + $360 ($459 Direct) = $878 (Direct: $1318 - Dell has offered me a discount to $1181)
6. Dell S2716DG 27" (Gaming - 1440p 144hz TN) and Dell U2717D 27" (Secondary - 1440p 60hz IPS) = $779 (Direct) + $595 ($849 Direct)[NOTE: I can get the UP2716D which seems to be slightly better than the U2717D on sale for $672 Direct] = $1374 (Direct: $1451 with UP2716D)
7. <Insert Brand> 27" (Gaming) and <Insert Brand> 27" IPS 60hz (having difficulty trying to match any cosmetically)

With regards to Option 7:

Viewsonic XG2703-GS - $900
Asus PG279Q - $1100~
Asus PG278Q - Doesn't exist anymore (phased for IPS above?)
Acer XB271HU (TN 165hz) - $900
Acer XB271HU (IPS 144hz) - $1000

Would love to hear feedback, open to any and all ideas/brands!

-VD

EDIT: Updated options above and added prices. Also I assume its best practice to go Dell directly for there apparently fantastic RMA? With regards to the Asus/Acer/Viewsonic approach, I still need to find a Secondary Monitor (or stick to my Samsung BW2443).

[Chief Blur Buster]

Yes, gaming monitor technology has boomed in the last six years!

Be careful about mixing refresh rates on multimonitor setups -- they can interfere with a game's functionality.

When it is necessary to mix refresh rates, the primary monitor should be the highest refresh rate, or an exact multiple of 60Hz. This solves games stuck at 60Hz (well....95%+ of time). But, then if you use the other for video.... some video game players will stutter if you play on the 60Hz monitor when the 144Hz is the primary, because the player is trying to synchronize to 144Hz but playing back at 60Hz. So best to have 60 vs 120 vs 240 if you plan to make one monitor the gaming monitor, and the other monitor the video playing monitor. That said, software such as DisplayFusion could help you greatly.

Because of this, I steer you to IPS 165 Hz displays for "Best Of Both Worlds", single monitor that is superior in practically every single aspect to old Samsung 2443BW's.

High-refresh-rate IPS 1440p displays
- Acer Predator XB271HU
- AOC AG271QG
- ASUS ROG PG279Q
- Viewsonic XG2703-GS

With any of these 4 monitors on the market, you get:
--> Great IPS color that you're already used to on your existing old IPS 60 Hz monitor:
--> High refresh rates
--> Ability to do 1440p, which is better than 1200p
--> Ability to play movie files more smoothly at custom frame rates
(24fps, 48fps, 60fps 120fps HFR, etc -- some players like SMPlayer support GSYNC to let you play movies at any supported frame rate)
--> Ability to turn on GSYNC when you need it
--> Ability to turn on ULMB when you need it, see 60Hz vs 120Hz vs ULMB

If you're used to IPS, then TN might feel like a downgrade for you (colors, viewing angles). You've been using 60 Hz IPS tech for years, so 165 Hz IPS + lots of goodies (GSYNC, ULMB) will already be a major upgrade. The difference between IPS and TN is subtle compared to the Hz/GSYNC/ULMB ability. (In fact IPS with ULMB turned on, has far less motion blur than the world's clearest non-strobed TN). If you really want TN, then you'd need to jump to 240Hz TN to make the switch from IPS-to-TN (For one of your monitors) really worthwhile. My assessment is you'll be happier with a single 165Hz IPS monitor that is a "best-of-both-worlds" display.

These are my recommendations for one-size-indeed-fits-all for movies and games, unless you want to wait for the $2000+ 4K 144Hz scanning-backlight displays in 2018. And with your 1080Ti is a perfect fit for a 1440p GSYNC monitor.

[venomousdesigns]

I honestly can't thank you enough for taking time time to reply Command and Chief (I secretly hoped you poked your head in to reply)!

I've spent another long day going through Monitors reviews, resolution comparisons and checking with the 'Banker' (my wife haha) what I'm allowed to spend (after upgrading my entire PC to boot). I've checked in with local retailers and I've been able to get an updated pricing structure on my options.

Funnily enough the new 240Hz 1080p 24" (Asus PG258Q) comes in at a considerably good price (~$200 shy of the 240Hz Acer and ~$300 of the Dell 24" 1440p | $300/$400/$500 shy of the Acer XB271HU/ASUS PG279Q/Viewsonic XG2703-GS) - I'm now very torn if those you suggested above are worth the $300-500 premium off the 240Hz Asus if you were faced with the same scenario?

My thinking is I'd like to keep one Samsung BW2443 as a Secondary Monitor for Videos/Browsing - there's no way I can afford two upgrades right now. So that will mean I'll be pairing whatever I buy with a 24" 1920x1200 60Hz - I've read alot about mice clipping/invisible walls with mixed resolutions like you said but am I correct in my logic; If I line up the BW2443 I should be able to live with small annoyance vs spending $1500+ on two screen replacements.

Also with regards to recent (ongoing?) reports of GSync Multi-Monitors (aka Primary is brought down to Secondary's refresh rate if there's anything GPU intense on it) and there's mixed reports of the latest Windows 10 Fall Update/Nvidia drivers fixing things (or as you eluded to, dropping the Primary down to 240/120 divisible or plugging the Secondary into your iGPU - unsure if these 'solutions' are snakeoil). My absolute fear is spending all this money on a 240Hz/144Hz Monitor and it being brought down to 60Hz due to the BW2443.

Sorry, I've dribbled on again... The short a sweet question is, as a non-professional (I don't do tournaments though I do play games every night haha) would a heavily discounted Asus PG258Q (see rough price differences above) be worth the $ (TN to TN, drop from 1920x1200 60hz to 1920x1080 240Hz). Or is it worth spending the extra $300-500 on a 27" 1440p? Keeping in mind I will be using one of my existing Samsung BW2443's with whatever is decided.

Thanks again so much!
-VD

[open]

Whoa are you sure that the PG258Q is cheaper? I remember it being $600-$550 when I bought it. If its cheaper then that is a DAMN STEAL and you should snatch it up.

In all seriousness I own the monitor and love it. Compared to other TN's it does everything equal or better. I'm really happy with the high refresh rate, gsync, brightness (if you want it bright), flicker free, and color.

As for advice I would say figure out what is absolutely the most important thing to you. For me it was 240hz, pixel response time, input lag, gsync, and brightness in that order and that's why I bought the PG258Q. If something in particular is the most important to you then you should research what monitor does that best and you will always be happy with what you get. For example if you wanted strobing support up to 240hz you might look at some benq monitors. If you want freesync support you might look at other monitors (I'm not sure if there are 240hz freesync monitors yet). Just figure out what is most important to you. It should be a simple and easy question to answer.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Understood. Personally, I'd go just 1 monitor, I feel the cost premium is worth it to play movies & games on the same display. (And you can still keep your 2443BW monitor for things like displaying web pages, cheat sheets and walkthroughs -- while you're playing a game).

Fears of being stuck at 60Hz
Don't worry too much about being stuck at 60Hz as long as you follow these guidelines, and have your expectations set in advance:
Plan A: Configure the important display to primary (e.g. switch primary monitors whenever switching monitors for smooth playback)
Plan B: Temporarily switch your 144Hz monitor to 120Hz or 60Hz for playing videos/etc, so it's an even multiple of 60Hz, if you don't want to switch primary. This, also can be made automatic/hotkeyable via third party software and profiles.
Plan C: Use third party software such as DisplayFusion. It can allow you to switch monitors on a hotkey (whether swapping primary monitors and turning the other one to a secondary -- or switching monitors as a sole monitor, turning the other monitor off automatically).
The stuck at 60Hz is by people who's encountered it unexpectedly and don't know how to solve it, or want to solve it without fiddling with configuring which becomes the primary monitor (primary monitor often becomes the refresh rate sync). "Use the primary, Luke" is pretty much the prevailing advice that solves 95% of the stuck-at-60Hz, and if it doesn't, just disable the other monitor temporarily in Control Panel for those few problem applications (or use DisplayFusion to automate it with a single hotkey). Also, TestUFO stuck-at-60Hz can also be caused by browser incompatibilities with TestUFO, unrelated to the Control Panel refresh rate (that can confuse things, monitor perfetly running 144Hz but TestUFO stuck at 60fps due to a web browser), so be careful about confusing monitor-stuck-at-60Hz problems versus TestUFO-stuck-at-60Hz problems.

In all likelihood, you might not even need third party software, once you're familiar with it, but it can be convenient to launch software and see a movie playback automatically switch refresh rates. Or even use a GSYNC compatible player such as SMPlayer to play at any future-proof movie frame rate (even 48fps movies and 120fps HFR movies)

Also, you're right, the 2443BW is a TN monitor (An older 5ms TN).
You have just the right amount of GPU heft to run 1080p 240Hz VRR or 1440p 144Hz VRR, so those two are likely your goals.
One constant is that with a 1080Ti, you'll almost definitely want GSYNC with those to keep your framerate fluctuations stutterfree. It's a nice upgrade, especially with a mondoo huge range (30-144Hz or 30-240Hz) accomodating lots of games.

I didn't see which country you hail from,
However both of them are almost the same price North America ($90 difference)
A -- 1080p 240Hz TN GSYNC ASUS ROG PG258Q currently at USD $559
B -- 1440p 144Hz IPS GSYNC Viewsonic XG2703-GS currently at USD $649

With option A, you'll likely keep a 2445BW. With option B, you have the option of keeping using 2445BW or not using it anymore because the option B doubles as a really good game & movie display. Depending on what image attributes you are most sensitive to (colors, viewing angles, etc), even 1440p scaled on IPS can look better than 1080p unscaled on TN, but it depends on a variety of factors -- your 2445BW is supposed to be a much-better-than-average TN panel, so it's probably midway in movie quality between a 240Hz TN and 144Hz IPS.

But a poorly calibrated IPS can look worse in color than a well-calibrated TN, so you'll want to do at least some quick basic adjustments. Some monitors, such as ViewSonic are really, really excellent out-of-box -- they are very well pre-calibrated. While BenQ color are often calibrated for eSports (brighter shadows, etc) so looks great in CS:GO competitions but looks terrible for movies without a big re-calibration. So if you're not a calibration guy, a brand with good Out-of-box calibration is often an asset. A ViewSonic IPS is quite a sight to behold, and practically guaranteed to be a movie-color upgrade.

However, you have more single-display flexibility with option B and you gain more space for 1440p for much, much nicer web browsing -- 2560-pixel-wide gives you two very tall browser windows side by side with room left over. While option A gives you the deliciousness of 240Hz. As you already know, 120Hz vs 240Hz may not be as dramatic as 60Hz vs 120Hz, but every forum member here have reported seeing the 240Hz difference, even those who aren't big-time on Hz. A good 240Hz TN almost looks like strobeless LightBoost when running at full 240fps with ~75% of LCD motion blur without needing a strobe backlight if your game is running near 240fps -- it looks almost as good as ULMB/LightBoost but without the strobing. However, you're starting at 60Hz, so anything 144Hz GSYNC will be like 'wow' in your video games, probably looking as big (again) as your 1080Ti upgrade (depending on how sensitive you are to stutter, etc).

On relative terms: GSYNC is much bigger improvement than things like movie "3:2 pulldown" versus "24p" (if you're a movie-watching guy and is picky about those things, immediately seeing movie stutter from 3:2 pulldown versus true 24Hz playback -- if you can see that, then in video games you definitely will see the GSYNC improvements which is much bigger de-stutter improvement.

Some of us swear by IPS, and others swear by 240Hz, faster response and better ULMB of TN technology. Some prefer IPS over 240Hz. While for others, it's miraculously like jumping from a 1980s CRT TV all the way to an OLED 4K HDTV.

[venomousdesigns]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply - I KNOW I was in shock too, had to triple check (it is a staff 'discount' mind you) as it's so knew.

As you said, anything is basically an upgrade for me now haha - even if I just print a static picture out ! What I was trying to do is keep everything 'on budget' and upgrade one screen for now (while keeping one of my BW2443s) - I thought the best way to do this was stay at 24", and then I asked myself really no point doing 1440p as I may aswell get a 27" - thus leading me to think go for the PG258Q...

The issue is, if I'm being honest, and also plays into what Chief said in the original reply - I have NO IDEA what I want, its ALL new to me and with no 'real' way to test (we don't have return policies like in the US, we can't try and return free) I'm really working on advice/reviews online.

If you were to say the 300/400/500 premium is worth it for a 27" Acer/Asus/Viewsonic (listed above) I will listen - all I can say is what I really do on my BW2443s now is:

Primary Screen: Gaming (Rainbow Six: Siege, soon to be Destiny 2, WoW, Fortnite, PUBG etc) - I am not a professional by any means though (thus is the Asus PG258Q wasted on me, although it is the cheapest of the bunch by a long shot...). I don't watch Movies or anything on my Primary - I've got a TV and a wife for that haha
Primary Screen: Youtube (Guides/reviews for the Games I'm playing haha), Web Browsing, Twitch (and I may take up streaming now I have a new PC).

That's really it - sad I know haha. With that all said, would love to hear your advice considering all models listed in OP and price/performance - I think if I had the budget to do BOTH I would go to 27"; One for Gaming (TN/IPS 144hz) and an IPS 60hz for Secondary viewing.

[venomousdesigns]

Literally replied at the same time Chief! Thank you again for replying - I'll address you in this post (if I'm allowed).

You've put my mind at ease (slightly, I'm still an old worry wart haha) about 60Hz issues with higher refresh primary.

I come from down-under and with those two monitors mentioned, this is what it looks like for me :

A -- 1080p 240Hz TN GSYNC ASUS ROG PG258Q currently at A$660
B -- 1440p 144Hz IPS GSYNC Viewsonic XG2703-GS currently at A$870 (the Asus PG279Q is $1060 and Acer XB271HU is $960 if that helps)

With those figures above what are your thoughts my options (apart from my country being utterly silly haha!)? As I said above, if you (with your vast knowledge compared to someone who doesn't even know what some of these words mean) say the $200 premium for the Viewsonic XG2703-GS, I'll do it. I'll use my Samsung BW2443 in the meantime and replace that later in the year with an IPS 60hz to match the 27".

The other option being the Asus PG258Q paired with the BW2443 - but if you think 240hz is wasted on a non-gamer and I'd see much more improvements from a 27" 1440p then so be it .

Oh and while we're on that topic, I just wanted to give you these measurements of my desk/viewing distance if that plays into anything. Currently my BW2443 sits ~30cm away from the base (spacebar) of my Keyboard and I am approximately ~60cm away from them - obviously with these narrower bases etc that may increase slightly.

Also I saw mention of Movies a few times above - I don't watch movies (Youtube videos yes) on my monitors, I have a TV for that. Refer to the above post for what my (sad) usage pattern is haha.

Thanks again so much to both of you and can't wait to hear what you suggest as I'd like to buy sometime this week.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Oh yes!

Experiencing pricing differences more painful than the US, the decision matrix certainly changes.

While sometimes cheaper brands can be hit-and-miss, remember that NVIDIA often "designs" the motherboard and firmware for them. At least partially. So as long as you see GSYNC, then it'll often have better overdrive & less motion blur. The AOC GSYNC monitors are practically as clear-motion as the ASUS monitors using the same panel, as a result. You might need to do a little more color calibration (I have no experience with AOC's default calibration, but they don't seem to be as storied as ViewSonic out-of-box calibration). Use this to your advantage: If it has GSYNC, then NVIDIA usually helped them make their monitor better in other ways (e.g. ULMB, better overdrive calibration, etc). So the existence of GSYNC is sorta like a stamp-of-quality-approval (not always, but a generic monitor brand's GSYNC monitor is usually superior to their non-GSYNC monitor at the moment). There are exceptions to the rule, but this is based on our experience.

If budget is a tough issue a TN 144Hz monitor will still feel like an upgrade (except for the drop from 1200p->1080p) and the likely slightly poorer color quality compared to a good Samsung TN though that's not always true, it depends on which 1080p TN monitor. But you may regret not going IPS, 1440p or at least TN 240Hz. Those are currently the two "creme de la creme" corners of the gaming monitor universe: Highest Hertz TN (best overall motion clarity/smoothness upgrade) versus Highest Hertz IPS (best good-color motion clarity/smoothness upgrade and avoid the downgrade feel of 1080p). Dell is also another option, if cheaper & for the better return in your country.

As you're on a 1080Ti, what's the cheapest 1080p and 1440p GSYNC options in your country?

[venomousdesigns]

Dell is also another option, if cheaper & for the better return in your country.

As you're on a 1080Ti, what's the cheapest 1080p and 1440p GSYNC options in your country?

Not sure if you saw my latest response - sorry for all the posts, I probably should of edited! I outlined the current pricing on the options you mentioned - does that help you help me (I think that's how you say it haha)? You know what, for the sake of it let me re-type into a nice layout:

1. 24" 1080p 240Hz TN GSYNC ASUS ROG PG258Q - A$660
2. 24" 1440p 165Hz TN GSYNC Dell S2417DG - A$859 (Direct)
2. 27" 1440p 144Hz IPS GSYNC Viewsonic XG2703-GS - A$870
3. 27" 1440p 144Hz IPS GSYNC Asus PG279Q - A$1060
4. 27" 1440p 144Hz IPS GSYNC Acer XB271HU - A$960
5. 27" 1440p 144Hz TN GSYNC Dell S2716DG - A$779 (Direct)

Dell unfortunately is not as 'generous' with their deals as I see again in the US - I keep an eye everyday though, currently they have the Dell S2716DG for A$779 and the Dell S2417DG for $859 (horrid without deals!).

[Chief Blur Buster]

Doesn't make the decision easier. The numbers do say that the 240Hz 1080p TN is obviously significantly cheaper in your country. -- AUD$400 difference between ASUS 240Hz TN versus ASUS 1440p IPS. Ouch. Even jumping to ViewSonic 1440p only saves you AUD$190.

Obviously, if 1440p, then get the XG2703-G instead of the S2417DG. No brainer for your situation. BTW, it's 144Hz but actually 'overclockable' to 165Hz.

But with 240Hz being significantly cheaper an option. How much cheaper does 1080p 144Hz GSYNC get you?