Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

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frunction
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by frunction » 18 Apr 2018, 16:10

I am currently using an XB252Q as main and XL2540 as side monitor. Previously I was on a PG278QR/S2716DG and before that two VG248Qe's. I've tried some IPS/VA monitors in between, but I can't stand them due to the blur.

When I play games that can sit around 240fps or more it's magically smooth, but I do feel like in lower FPS games it looks worse than it would on the 144hz monitors. There is something I don't like when in games like 80-144fps. For instance, in Far Cry 5 I could only play for so long before getting strain. It's almost like motion blur in the lower FPS games like what this guy is describing. I never noticed this on previous monitors I was using, even in lower FPS games.

KindOldRaven
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by KindOldRaven » 23 Apr 2018, 06:14

frunction wrote:I am currently using an XB252Q as main and XL2540 as side monitor. Previously I was on a PG278QR/S2716DG and before that two VG248Qe's. I've tried some IPS/VA monitors in between, but I can't stand them due to the blur.

When I play games that can sit around 240fps or more it's magically smooth, but I do feel like in lower FPS games it looks worse than it would on the 144hz monitors. There is something I don't like when in games like 80-144fps. For instance, in Far Cry 5 I could only play for so long before getting strain. It's almost like motion blur in the lower FPS games like what this guy is describing. I never noticed this on previous monitors I was using, even in lower FPS games.
My main, and basically only, issue with the XB252Q remains that on any Overdrive setting besides off I get corona's @ 244hz (yes, even on normal but not in the UFO tests: when browsing or doing 2D gaming with certain transitions) and small black objects will turn blue when in motion, while in its 144hz mode it's all perfectly stable without any corona's or overdrive artifacts (it does 144hz better than most 144hz monitors I've had in terms of that). On every other aspect I'm very impressed, including the panel and colors itself. It just looks best at 144hz in motion if I'm in nitpicky mode :lol:

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Apr 2018, 14:07

Variable refresh rate overdrive algorithms are really tough.

This can, potentially, be a factor in certain 240Hz monitors not always overdriving very well at 100fps@240Hz compared to a more mature 144Hz monitor doing VRR overdrive at 100fps@144Hz. So low framerates on certain 240Hz monitors may always not look as good as low framerates on the world's best 144Hz monitors, although they should (ideally) look identical.

As framerate fluctuates, the amount of overdrive actually needs to dynamically change in real time, and GSYNC already does this predictively and automatically as does some (not all) FreeSync monitors -- it also guesses when the next refresh cycle might occur, and adjust the current refresh cycle's overdrive with that expectation. It can potentially be a complex 2D/3D matrix math calculation instead of figuratively slidering a (one-dimensional) Overdrive Adjustment back and fourth. All this stuff is massive processing power, every single subpixel getting complex math, every single refresh cycle, and required an FPGA in the first GSYNC displays.

This will all gradually sort itself out, but at the moment, it is extremely tough. GSYNC 240Hz monitors generally does a better job of overdrive, but several newer FreeSync monitors are getting much better VRR overdrive though!

That said, I've seen 100fps@240Hz that looks better than 100fps@144Hz for some common garden-variety monitors that often doesn't implement VRR-optimized overdrive. So well-optimized 240Hz VRR overdrive can blow away poorly or unoverdriven 144Hz VRR. The quality venn diagram seems to overlap.

I hope that 240Hz VRR overdrive improves further, so it can blow away even the better 144Hz VRR monitors at lower framerates (e.g. 80fps-100fps).
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yehaw
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by yehaw » 05 Jun 2018, 16:22

frunction wrote:I am currently using an XB252Q as main and XL2540 as side monitor. Previously I was on a PG278QR/S2716DG and before that two VG248Qe's. I've tried some IPS/VA monitors in between, but I can't stand them due to the blur.

When I play games that can sit around 240fps or more it's magically smooth, but I do feel like in lower FPS games it looks worse than it would on the 144hz monitors. There is something I don't like when in games like 80-144fps. For instance, in Far Cry 5 I could only play for so long before getting strain. It's almost like motion blur in the lower FPS games like what this guy is describing. I never noticed this on previous monitors I was using, even in lower FPS games.
Reason why I returned it. There are like 1-2 newer gen games (overwatch/csgo) on the market where you can hold 240fps. It's not worth it when you're playing at <144fps for 99% of your games. Then if you play older arcade games, emu, etc - all locked 30/60 hz/fps. Even watching a sports stream online I could see the blurring issue. $500 for a worse experience and eye strain? No thanks. They also all use the same panel, so likely all suffer same limitation with blurring at lower fps. I tried the Alienware and the AOC, both had the issue.

And I had a G-Sync version that are apparently the better ones. And people thought I was crazy saying these 240hz have an issue, I'm wrong, etc - but same exact complaint keeps showing up exactly as I and others described. Mods/Admins even renamed my thread title to put "opinion" in front of my claim that 240hz are blurry :lol: It's not an opinion when multiple people are complaining of the exact same issue word for word.

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lexlazootin
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by lexlazootin » 05 Jun 2018, 19:40

Antadotal evidence is pretty much useless if you’re trying to prove something. Blanket statements always insures you that you are wrong.

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lexlazootin
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by lexlazootin » 06 Jun 2018, 04:29

I'll happly debunk this again because i think it's almost funny.

Lets look at some of these GREAT testimony you brought up!

Acer Predator XB252Q is really blurry and sh***y

But if you actually take time to READ the thread you can see that he didn't have a problem with motion blur but some sort of strange black spot on his monitor

"but there are some black squares on black images"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The BenQ Zowie XL2540 was met with decent reviews but worries about motion trails (overshooting pixels that create a blurry visual) made us look at different monitors.

And what do they recommend instead?! ANOTHER 240hz monitor!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Lot of Benq's 144hz are TERRIBLE with overdrive as well. It's not surprising. I

Also compared to the xl2450, everything is a lot more visible to my eyes when moving, it doesn't seem to have the extreme fuzziness/blurriness I was experiencing on the zowie.

And what does he recommend you get?! ANOTHER 240hz monitor!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I thought these 240hz panels were terrible? why are they still recommending them?!?

Lets have a look the "Pixel inversion flaw + more complaints" flaw

You bring up a MASSIVE flaw with 240hz panels at i mentioned once where they display pixel inversion artifact at low refreshrate on a G-Sync monitor in very select situations, sounds awful! :o But being you, you mistook it as motion blur somehow because you CLEARLY have no idea what you're talking about.

Well guess what? 144hz panels have that issue as well! :lol: Some of the threads you posted HAD pictures them with non-240hz panels with this issue. :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4127&start=20

Here's a thread with a BenQ XL2411P with scrolling horizontal lines where he replaced it with another 144hz monitor only to get the same issue! :lol:

240hz panels are so bad!! :lol:

How about "Breakdown of how 240hz can look blurrier than 144hz"

This whole thing is just pure ignorance. The whole thing makes no sense and you try and connect things together that don't fit

"I never once said 240hz is more blurry than 144hz"

Title of thread: 240hz displays are blurry

:lol: :lol:

Photo evidence of 165hz vs 240hz @ 165fps

Please stop this is even worse. You even tried to use my joke photo as evidence that 240hz are blurry, and when i took the same photo with a shorter shutter speed you called me out for cheating :lol: :lol: :lol: You clearly don't have any understanding in how any of it works yet you're willing to tell us that we're wrong and your terrible youtube and photo evidence is proof.

please read

http://story.fund/post/114093854037/dun ... ger-effect

mello
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by mello » 06 Jun 2018, 07:41

Great find, truly. Wasn't aware of these studies but it makes perfect sense. And a quick contemplation on some of my past experiences and interactions with people, both in personal life & business, shows exactly that. And even when you look outside of the things we discuss here and look at politics, internet related things, entertainment, business related things, some crazy teories that people believe in, and basically everything in our daily lives... it all revolves around The Dunning-Kruger Effect.

yehaw
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by yehaw » 06 Jun 2018, 08:16

Waste of time even reading your comments Lex. Go read the last reply by the BlurBusters admin where he says he hopes overdrive can be as good as current gen 144hz monitors in the future. Keep pretending there is no issue.
I hope that 240Hz VRR overdrive improves further, so it can blow away even the better 144Hz VRR monitors at lower framerates (e.g. 80fps-100fps).
And yeah, you're right, the eye strain from being blurry is definitely THE DUNNING-KRUGER EFFECT. That's a side effect, right? Is that a symptom of kruger effect? :lol: Keep defending as more and more people post same issue. lol.

And lastly, go back to your old post where you admit the overdrive has issues about a 240hz monitor, but you're here attacking my argument that there isn't any issue with these 240hz monitors. Read the quotes and your reply:
Akaranir wrote:Hello,

I just bought the PG258Q (my first monitor 144hz and above) and i really struggle with the blur that creates itself in motion because of the highlighting of the pixels i suppose to be "pixel inversion".
lexlazootin wrote:Yep, i have the Acer and G-Sync and i'm pretty sure it's just how the panel works. I don't have a solution but i see it too, especially at lower hz.
Admits to seeing the exact issue I've been complaining about as well as others, then comes to my thread to tell me these 240hz have no problem. And if you go back and read my comments, I said the issue is worse at lower HZ too just like you, how ironic. I love that I dug that old comment up you forgot about, makes you look pretty hypocritical.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 06 Jun 2018, 10:06

Everyone, stop nitpicking on each other.

Nitpick the monitor, not at each other, please.

Different people are sensitive to different things anyway.

So, for those 240Hz nitpickers, please see this better 240Hz thread. The new AUO 0.5ms panels may be the charm for y'all! ;)
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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lexlazootin
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Re: Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by lexlazootin » 06 Jun 2018, 18:04

yehaw wrote:Admits to seeing the exact issue I've been complaining about as well as others, then comes to my thread to tell me these 240hz have no problem. And if you go back and read my comments, I said the issue is worse at lower HZ too just like you, how ironic. I love that I dug that old comment up you forgot about, makes you look pretty hypocritical.
What? This has to be a troll at this point, Someone EXPLAINED to you what pixel inversion is and you forgot? The next post after you posted the pixel inversion bs is...

"Pixel inversion is something quite different from what you were claiming. I've noticed vertical lines in the past as well in certain conditions (moving horizontally in front of a wall) but I wouldn't categorize that as blur and at this point I either not notice them or they aren't there."

And then in my latest post i brought this up saying you have no idea what pixel inversion is and yet now you thought using pixel inversion as evidence?

Someone could explain in depth how you're wrong but you would just not listen.

Edit: now that i think of it, that's exactly what you've done this entire thread :lol:
Everyone, stop nitpicking on each other.

Nitpick the monitor, not at each other, please.
The problem is that his problem with the 240hz monitors is him not understanding how they work.

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