Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

[Chief Blur Buster]

Correct.

100fps on any >100Hz G-SYNC monitor just looks as blurry as 100fps @ 100Hz.

Even if it's 240Hz, 480Hz, 1000Hz, you will still get 10ms persistence with 100fps without strobing.

10ms persistence = 10 pixels of motion blurring during 1000 pixels/second.

No way to fix without strobing or using higher frame rates.

If you hate blur and also hate stutters -- Then try ULMB with the triple lock for framerate = stroberate = refreshrate if you don't mind a little lag, at 100fps @ 100Hz ULMB VSYNC ON -- with a powerful GPU and some judicious detail-reducing -- in order to get ULMB motion-fluidity nirvana (the Sega arcade effect, the Super Nintendo butter smooth panning effect, the 8-bit smooth scroller effect, of blurfree+stutterfree). Certainly, for now, you gotta pick your poison (tolerating strobing + tolerating lag) to get simultaneously blurfree+stutterfree at 100fps.

[yehaw]

Of course there is going to be blur at 60hz. There's going to be blur at every refresh rate. I think you people fail to realize I'm talking about the overshoot blur at 60hz, which I demonstrated with the pink line in the photo above.

And motion on these 240hz monitors just looks blurrier compared to my traditional 144/165hz monitor when matched frame for frame and refresh rate for refresh rate. Again, go back to my long post. If you can't see how blurry the alien looks in the 240hz compared to 200hz, then I don't know what to tell you. The overdrive is just really bad on these monitors. You can dismiss it all you want, but it's there in plain sight for anyone to see in my post. And I can confirm the same blurry issues in the review on my 240hz panel. Pair that really bad overdrive with 24.5" at 1080p and the low ppi just adds more blurry to the blurry overdrive. No thanks.

For me, it's not worth it yet. Once they sort out the overdrive issues and come with maybe a standard 24", I'm back in for one. Right now I feel they aren't ready yet for market. I already got my return label ready to send it back, as I don't think a replacement will fix it when I even see the issue in reviews.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Have you tried the ASUS Factory/Service menu for precision overdrive adjustments? Some (not all) ASUS monitors have them.

Granted, this mainly affects fixed-Hz modes, but it's worth trying. This can produce better looking motion at 144fps @ 144Hz, as well as 200fps @ 200Hz fixed-Hz. However, this will not necessarily help variable-refresh-rate overdrive.

[yehaw]

Have you tried the ASUS Factory/Service menu for precision overdrive adjustments? Some (not all) ASUS monitors have them.

Granted, this mainly affects fixed-Hz modes, but it's worth trying. This can produce better looking motion at 144fps @ 144Hz, as well as 200fps @ 200Hz fixed-Hz. However, this will not necessarily help variable-refresh-rate overdrive.

I have an Alienware 240hz, which kind of confirms to me all these panels suffer from the same issu. I see the same thing from the ASUS blurry overdrive on the Alienware. Same lighter ghosting trail at 200hz than 240hz. And same overshoot blur at 60hz. And there are a few threads around the web of people complaining 240hz is blurry.

[darzo]

You should go back to your long post yourself and rather than the differently sized images you provide compare the images in the TFT review. Now the alien is looking to have a particular blur at 240hz that it has less so at 200hz? Weren't you initially complaining about blur on a 240hz monitor at lower fps, having deemed the monitor great at 240 fps? And how does the 144hz image look to you in comparison to the 240hz one? What strange hairs are you trying to split? The only thing in plain sight is you having a bad monitor and being in denial about it, although at this point I'm starting to wonder if the monitor is what's bad here.

Unfortunately when I take a screenshot of my motion test everything comes out statically clean (how do I capture the motion blur and whatever else?) but what I see on my Acer at 240hz is an image with little blur and zero perceptible ghosting or artifacts at normal overdrive. Also, maybe you should try reading the review rather than trying to confirm something few others see? Have you read what the review states along with those images? Now that's in plain sight too.

Gotta love how assertive this guy is. Enjoy being under the delusion that 240hz monitors are blurry. Whatever you see in the review you linked to is something the reviewers explicitly don't see. What they see is less blur and there is no mention of your ghost artifacts.

And there are a few threads around the web of people complaining 240hz is blurry.

And how many more mentions of 240hz being smoother and less blurry? You alluded to this when referring to customer reviews.

[darzo]

Conclusion

The ROG Swift PG258Q was a very impressive gaming screen and one of the best we've tested to date. The response times were very low and the overdrive impulse was controlled nicely across a wide refresh rate range, with only low levels of overshoot being apparent. That's quite rare for a fast TN Film screen and we were impressed. The high 144Hz range refresh rates made an obvious improvement to motion clarity over 60Hz panels as we've become accustomed to with gaming displays for several years now. But the improvements offered by 200 and 240Hz modes become apparent on this display and offered again a decent improvement in motion clarity we felt.

Overdrive Setting = Normal


As you can see, there are then noticeable improvements in perceived motion blur as you increase up to 200Hz and 240Hz refresh rate, as the frame rate increases dramatically again. The moving image becomes clearer and easier to track and it's a decent improvement over 144Hz. It was harder to see this difference when we tested the AOC AGON AG251FZ since the overdrive control was not as consistent, but here on the Asus we felt the difference was more noticeable. You can tell from the pursuit camera tests above as well that there's an improvement in motion clarity as you go from 144 > 200 > 240Hz. From a motion clarity point of view, this makes it the fastest display we've tested to date. In practice it might be harder to notice this in gaming, as you're starting to get into the realms of diminishing returns as you get in to the 144Hz range we felt, and perhaps it isn't needed for many users. But the pursuit camera tests and our motion clarity tests showed some improvement that maybe a very keen eye will spot in their gaming.

We can also compare the pursuit camera tests at 60Hz and 144Hz compared with a couple of very fast and very popular gaming screens above, including the recently tested AOC equivalent to this model, their AGON AG251FZ with 240Hz. The performance is very comparable in actual perceived motion blur between all three in practice, with very little to separate them. The PG258Q has a slight edge at 144Hz as the image looks a little clearer and we also know that there are lower levels of overshoot present. As we've shown a little earlier, there are then the added benefits when increasing the refresh rate to 200 and 240Hz.

Clearly the only thing you've confirmed from this review you linked to is that you see something very, very different to the point of getting headaches. If I saw something as different I might be having headaches too, but alas, I agree with the review. Maybe that's because I have a quality Acer monitor while you might have the double whammy of a defective and generally inferior Alienware monitor? So come again, how is this a general problem?

[yehaw]

Maybe that's because I have a quality Acer monitor while you might have the double whammy of a defective and generally inferior Alienware monitor? So come again, how is this a general problem?

And here is proof your Acer has same flaw as every other 240hz panel:

https://i.imgur.com/JKXYz2p.jpg

Source: https://youtu.be/aVo-qQCGKeU?t=5m14s



Keep telling me I'm wrong, your panel doesn't have it, my panel is cheap, etc. Look at the double image, look at the overshoot, look how blurry all the aliens are.The funny part? The Acer's overdrive looks a lot worse than my Alienware, yet you keep bragging about it's quality. Who can look at this and truthfully say it's not a blurry mess?

[Chief Blur Buster]

Unfortunately when I take a screenshot of my motion test everything comes out statically clean (how do I capture the motion blur and whatever else?)

Pursuit camera.

A camera accurately following motion. A tracking camera like a tracking eye.

Capturing multiple refresh cycles over human vision integration timescales (1/30sec camera exposure) to capture the averaged resulting motion blur that the human eye is seeing.

Look at http://www.testufo.com/ghosting and see the temporal test pattern (sync track).

This is a peer reviewed technique that I invented, confirmed by other researchers who are co-authors of this same paper - NOKIA, NIST.gov, and Keltek. - http://www.blurbusters.com/motion-tests ... mera-paper

The instructions are at http://www.blurbusters.com/motion-tests/pursuit-camera

Although a camera rail is recommended, you can pan a smartphone horizontally while taking photo (use a manual camera app to fix exposure to 1/30sec). Keep taking pictures until the sync track looks the same on photo as the eye sees. The sync track only gets photographed correctly if you pan your camera at the esact same speed as the motion. At that point, the motion blur is WYSIWYG.

That is how the review sites do it. You see our familiar UFO on any review sites, then they're using my motion tests that I developed.

They are using my invention of cheap pursuit camera. Formerly, this used to be the domain of expensive laboratory equipment and automated tracking cameras. However, now it is done with just simple blogger equipment as an off-the-shelf camera sitting on a $100 camera rail. But with practice, can be done with hand-waved smartphones, or even a framegrab from video (get the freezeframe of the clearest-captured sync track).

The name of the "pursuit camera" game is to track so accurately, that 100 percent of the blur is the display-induced motion blur, and not additional camera blur. That is the magic of the "sync track" temporal test pattern - it tells you if you did.

For videogame panning, pan the camera at the same speed as the panning scenery during a smooth turn. It works better if you assign a keyboard key to turn left/right to get constant-speed turning, then jam it down while you focus on camera-panning manoevers to try to do pursuit-camera captures of game scenery. Not easy without a sync track like the one at http://www.testufo.com/ghosting

[darzo]

Kid, you do realize by simply going to this url https://www.testufo.com/ I can see the result for my monitor myself? The image has little blur and no double image or overshoot. It's actually cleaner than the Asus image that the TFT review complimented, remarkably clean. You read that review yet? Just to set the record straight. At this point I think our conversation has run its course. Enjoy your 165hz AOC. I use my 165hz Asus for games where I don't mind more blur, less smoothness, and less responsiveness.

By the way, what happened to 144hz and 200hz on that test?

[yehaw]

Kid, you do realize by simply going to this url https://www.testufo.com/ I can see the result for my monitor myself? The image has little blur and no double image or overshoot. It's actually cleaner than the Asus image that the TFT review complimented, remarkably clean. You read that review yet? Just to set the record straight. At this point I think our conversation has run its course. Enjoy your 165hz AOC. I use my 165hz Asus for games where I don't mind more blur, less smoothness, and less responsiveness.

By the way, what happened to 144hz and 200hz on that test?

I think the photos speak for themselves. Nobody will take your word over review photos.

If your display doesn't have the issues, upload your own photos from the same test. If you don't show proof, save your fingers the typing.