Experience & Opinion: 240hz displays are blurry

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darzo
Posts: 211
Joined: 12 Aug 2017, 12:26

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by darzo » 24 Dec 2017, 18:58

Chief Blur Buster has told you essentially the same thing. You just have a bad monitor, for whatever reason. Stop looking at isolated claims for a general problem. You're actually the first person I've encountered who has gotten headaches due to blur on a 240hz monitor, lol. I have hundreds of hours of play on mine. You've been at it for what, a week? Get that replacement if you want to stick with Alienware or get yourself an Asus or Acer. The BenQ might be good as well. Then make silly claims like 240hz monitors are not ready for market or 240hz displays are blurry.

yehaw
Posts: 71
Joined: 21 Dec 2017, 21:41

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by yehaw » 24 Dec 2017, 19:02

darzo wrote:Chief Blur Buster has told you essentially the same thing. You just have a bad monitor, for whatever reason. Stop looking at isolated claims for a general problem. You're actually the first person I've encountered who has gotten headaches due to blur on a 240hz monitor, lol. I have hundreds of hours of play on mine. You've been at it for what, a week? Get that replacement if you want to stick with Alienware or get yourself an Asus or Acer. The BenQ might be good as well. Then make silly claims like 240hz monitors are not ready for market or 240hz displays are blurry.
They're all the same panel and I can see the blurry flaw in the reviews that matches perfectly what I see on my monitor. If you can read this post and not see the issues I point out, then I don't know what else to tell you. Asus, Acer, Aoc, etc - it doesn't matter. I guarntee they all suffer from the same issue because it looks like a panel limitation.

Do me a favor, go to testufo and take a photo of alien invasion at 60hz. Lets see how good your 240hz panel is. I guarntee you will see double image, and that carries over to all other refresh rates.

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Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Dec 2017, 19:07

darzo wrote:Chief Blur Buster has told you essentially the same thing. You just have a bad monitor, for whatever reason. Stop looking at isolated claims for a general problem. You're actually the first person I've encountered who has gotten headaches due to blur on a 240hz monitor, lol. I have hundreds of hours of play on mine. You've been at it for what, a week? Get that replacement if you want to stick with Alienware or get yourself an Asus or Acer. The BenQ might be good as well. Then make silly claims like 240hz monitors are not ready for market or 240hz displays are blurry.
Easy. I also included this disclaimer:
Chief Blur Buster wrote: To be fair, different people are MUCH more sensitive to something specific
-- Tearing sensitivity
-- Stutter sensitivity
-- Motion blur sensitivity
-- Ghosting/Overdrive/Coronas sensitivity (can be different from motion blur)
-- Flicker sensitivity
-- Etc.

Some people are super-sensitive to multiple factors, but I've also met people who were much more flicker-sensitive than blur-sensitive, and vice-versa. Others are much more stutter sensitive than blur sensitive. It hugely varies between people (like hearing abilities and seeing-vision abilities. Even focus 20/20 vision can still be undiagnosed slightly color blind, like only 10% or 25% worse color vision than average person, etc, etc).... Many scientific tests have shown that no 2 persons see the same thing perfectly exactly the same.... they see things at least extremely slightly differently in at least one way or another. Whether focussing, colors, motion, flicker sensitivity, etc.

While there is also apparently a monitor inconsistency issue too (brand? panel lottery?) it bears worth mentioning that the human factor also makes it difficult to compare notes sometimes. Pursuit-camera tests helps quite a lot (which many websites do now, like TFTCentral, etc).
What I am saying is that while there is "pursuit camera" evidence of blur inconsistency between 240 Hz monitors, there is also an additional human factor.

We cannot rule out the human factor. A 240 Hz monitor looks massively less motion-blurred to one person's eyes, but may have more visible ghosting-artifacts to another set of eyes (e.g. reduced motion blur making overdrive limitations more visible). Oftentimes, motion blur and overdrive just blends together, but some humans seem to have the uncanny ability to pick out one-or-the-other. And sometimes, those readers mix up the terminology (e.g. calling ghosting artifacts as motion blur).

To help such readers identify the motion blur problem, see LCD Motion Artifacts 101 and LCD Overdrive Artifacts. Any asymmetry between trailing/leading edge (left edge and right edge) of horizontal motion, is a GtG artifact (overdrive, coronas, ghosting, etc) and considered (in Blur Busters terminology) a blur "artifact" -- a distortion to mathematically simple motion blur. While the remaining leftover perfect linear symmetry between trailing/leading edge is usually simple motion blur.

So let's not rule out the possibility of the human factor.

That said, I do recommend a monitor exchange if your 240Hz monitor has an unusual amount of motion blur or ghosting artifacts, since it may solve your problem. But then again (if your issue is more human-factor based) it might not.
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darzo
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Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by darzo » 24 Dec 2017, 20:21

So objectively less motion blur is making him see the general flaws of overdrive i.e. ghosting artifacts more distinctly, which he is mistaking for blur? Look at his post. Those images are of a dramatically different size but the TFT review he links to ironically has a better comparison between monitors. The 240hz Asus has less artifacts and blur than the 1440 144/165hz Asus at 60hz and at 144hz, which is of the same type as the AOC monitor he claims is much better than his 240hz monitor in this respect. Although even the TFT images are not quite the same size. It's also clear there that AOC indeed lacks some quality.

I don't buy him being more sensitive to something rendering what we would see as fine headache inducing. There doesn't seem to be anything worse about 240hz monitors with respect to motion, be it blur or ghosting, let alone to such a degree.

yehaw
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Joined: 21 Dec 2017, 21:41

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by yehaw » 24 Dec 2017, 21:29

darzo wrote:So objectively less motion blur is making him see the general flaws of overdrive i.e. ghosting artifacts more distinctly, which he is mistaking for blur? Look at his post. Those images are of a dramatically different size but the TFT review he links to ironically has a better comparison between monitors. The 240hz Asus has less artifacts and blur than the 1440 144/165hz Asus at 60hz and at 144hz, which is of the same type as the AOC monitor he claims is much better than his 240hz monitor in this respect. Although even the TFT images are not quite the same size. It's also clear there that AOC indeed lacks some quality.

I don't buy him being more sensitive to something rendering what we would see as fine headache inducing. There doesn't seem to be anything worse about 240hz monitors with respect to motion, be it blur or ghosting, let alone to such a degree.
What happen? Post a photo of 60hz for us, show us these 240hz panels don't have any blur issues! I'll put $500 that says you have double image.

darzo
Posts: 211
Joined: 12 Aug 2017, 12:26

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by darzo » 24 Dec 2017, 22:11

Image

Image

Image

yehaw
Posts: 71
Joined: 21 Dec 2017, 21:41

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by yehaw » 24 Dec 2017, 22:18

Why are you posting images of other monitors? And the funny thing is, every 240hz monitor in the picture running at 60hz has double image blur.

Take a photo of your screen at 60hz on the alien invasion test and post. Lets see your 240hz that has no blur!

darzo
Posts: 211
Joined: 12 Aug 2017, 12:26

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by darzo » 24 Dec 2017, 22:21

The middle monitor is of the same type as the AOC monitor you have and claim has less blur/artifacts, except likely better. Which has the least blur and artifacts? You won't find perfection on any of these monitors in recent years. The 240hz monitors, however, appear somewhat better even at 60hz and 144hz. The "Chief" has also claimed there are other benefits to using 240hz monitors at lower refresh rates versus 144hz monitors, I think with respect to input lag.

https://www.amazon.com/27-inch-Monitor- ... B00MSOND8C

The monitor I have, by the way, is the pg278qr, which is the most recent version.

yehaw
Posts: 71
Joined: 21 Dec 2017, 21:41

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by yehaw » 24 Dec 2017, 23:20

darzo wrote:
The monitor I have, by the way, is the pg278qr, which is the most recent version.
Wait, you don't even have a 240hz display? And you're here arguing with me for 4 pages that 240hz doesn't have a blur issue? :lol: :lol:

darzo
Posts: 211
Joined: 12 Aug 2017, 12:26

Re: 240hz displays are blurry

Post by darzo » 25 Dec 2017, 00:01

*facepalm*

I have an Acer 240hz as well as an Asus 1440 165hz. The 240hz is smoother without any sort of extra blur or artifacts (granted I use gsync, if not I run into remarkable choppiness and blur) and is what I use for competitive fps. You have a similar pair of monitors except they are both worse than mine. The TFT test images above show that the tested Asus 240hz monitor is less blurry with less trail/artifacts at 60hz and 144hz than both the AOC 240hz monitor, which is the brand of your 1440 monitor, and the Asus 1440 144hz monitor, which is similar to your AOC 1440 monitor. You are not following basic logic. Among recent-year non CRT monitors there are no perfectly clear motion images at 60 or 144hz. Not at 240hz either, but 240hz monitors tend to produce somewhat clearer images even at lower fps. ULMB then comes into it, but although it will give you a clearer test image at 144hz in my experience and that of another customer on Amazon practically in games the motion at 240hz without ULMB is smoother than 144hz with ULMB.

Your pair of monitors prove little more than the 240hz one is even worse than the AOC 1440 you have. That's why the "Chief" has recommended that you replace it and has contradicted your claim with respect to the quality of 240hz monitors in general. Give it a break. Replace or get yourself a proper brand 240hz monitor.

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