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Monitor recommendation

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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby darzo » 04 Jan 2018, 13:51

EmojilessPsykopat wrote:Yeah, I'm still wondering whether to go for 1080ti or wait for Volta, but the general consensus seems that 2080 most likely will not be faster than 1080ti, and a 2080ti is due for 2019.


This is horribly wrong. If anything a 2080 or whatever it ends up being is likely to be better than a 1080ti by a bigger margin than a 1080ti over a 1080. If you can wait I'd wait, and do not trust anyone who'd tell you such nonsense.

The ultrawides of 2018 will be VA at 200hz and will come sooner rather than later. You can google them, advanced features. I find it hard to believe they'll be poor due to VA, but will be very expensive ($1500 floor I'd imagine).
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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby open » 04 Jan 2018, 15:58

The thing about volta is they are pushing for bigger chips so more transistors even without a process iteration. So no matter what they will get a performance gain and given architecture and process improvements even more than that.

I would still expect less of a price to perfromance gain than pervious generations but this is true for every high end chip maker on average. The expense of making transistors smaller is increasing with each step. The iterations that make the most performance gains now are the ones that feature major architecture improvements. Performance gains from smaller transistors are mitigated by increased costs. Though they are still there. Also chip makers are realizing that they can jack up the prices a bit and still sell chips. Digital currency mining jacked up prices and the industry got a free chance to see how much extra gamers were willing to pay.

Maxwell was the last big architecture improvement. Pascal added faster clocks by using significantly smaller transistors (maxwell was 28nm vs pascal at 16nm). But 16nm brings nvidia close to where further transistor shrinking will cost alot. The only thing I can say is do not trust the early benchmarks and such. If you want something to go on go on the fact that nvidia has a history of not slowing down even when they are ahead. Volta will be faster. And AMD may be competitive again in 2019 with a big architecture update and also some tech to make production cheaper.
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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 04 Jan 2018, 21:34

EmojilessPsykopat wrote:Actually I have an idea, later today Ill try to run this and other testUFO tests on my oled tv from my pc. It takes only 60hz input over hdmi, but I'll interpolate it to 120hz on the tv just for the test.

Don't bother.

120Hz ULMB is 4x to 8x sharper than 120Hz non-ULMB.
60Hz vs 120Hz vs ULMB.

Image

EmojilessPsykopat wrote:Of course that is unrealistic for gaming by any means, but just to see with my eyes that would be close to 120hz ULMB since OLED has no motion blur, correct?

Wrong. OLED does have motion blur. See Why Does OLEDs Have Motion Blur? ... This is due to the effect of persistence. However, some OLEDs have black frame insertion (BFI) which is similar to ULMB.

To achieve 120Hz ULMB motion clarity without using ULMB, you would need 500Hz or 1000Hz to get similarly a blurless experience using normal sample-and-hold (flickerless LCDs and OLEDs).

Image

EmojilessPsykopat wrote:2. When playing FPS on my PC and old 60hz monitor I am more annoyed when doing fast camera movements to look around or trying to change targets/target an enemy in the head quickly due to how unclear the image is on movement, so Im not sure if thats more motion blur or just 60fps being too slow for fast actions like these.

It's not just the frame rate, but the high persistence of displays. Which looks like stutter at low frame rates and looks like motion blur at high frame rates.

On full persistence displays (flickerfree displays), doubling the framerate only halves motion blur. But only up to a display's maximum refresh rate ability.

240Hz non-strobed is more motion-blurry than 120Hz strobed (ULMB, LightBoost, or other strobe technology).

For major further improvements in motion blur without unobtainium Hz, you need to instead add flicker (Strobing) such as black frame insertion, LightBoost, ULMB, CRT, or other impulsing tech to bypass that limitation (getting less motion blur than a refresh cycle time's worth). Strobe backlights work by stroboscopically flashing each refresh cycle for something like 1/500sec or 1/1000sec. This avoids motion blur caused by eye tracking -- the effect you see at http://www.testufo.com/eyetracking

You cannot see it for yourself with just a 120Hz OLED without BFI -- you need to actually purchase one of the strobe-backlight technologies such as ULMB to eliminate display motion blur.
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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby EmojilessPsykopat » 05 Jan 2018, 04:08

Chief Blur Buster wrote:You cannot see it for yourself with just a 120Hz OLED without BFI -- you need to actually purchase one of the strobe-backlight technologies such as ULMB to eliminate display motion blur.


Alright, it seems like ULMB is what I should aim for. Also it will be more realistic to target 120fps with medium to high graphics for the games I play than 200-240fps with 200-240hz monitor.

Since I'm targeting an ultrawide it seems a bit of a problem what I've gathered from TFTCentral reviews is that Asus ELMB and LGs implementation of ULMB both seem worse than Nvidia's ULMB tech. Could you comment on that?

Also what do you think of VA panels with ULMB in general? I've read some complaints of Z35 having a lot of smearing for dark colors. Is that generally reduced by ULMB or does that depend more on how well the monitor is made instead of VA drawacks in general?

What would you consider the best implementation of ULMB for an ultrawide?
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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby darzo » 05 Jan 2018, 04:15

https://www.geforce.com/whats-new/artic ... ed-monitor

If money and patience are no issue you wait for Volta and this, which I think is coming within the next three months.
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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby knypol » 05 Jan 2018, 14:55

As a user of ASUS PG258Q I have to say that 120Hz in ULMB in long term is very annoying due to flickering. 144Hz is bit better but stil after 5 hrs of playing I can feel that my eyes are irritated. More over if U can't maintain perfectly 120 fps (for 120 Hz) or 144 (for 144Hz) the smoothness of motion becomes really bad (stuttering etc). Input lag - even after doing everything to reduce input lag it still there...for fast shooters its really noticable...U can feel that smth is wrong with aiming. For slower games it's definitely ok. Brightness in ULMB for PG258Q is good enough - this shouldn't be any of Your concerns. For pure synthetic test like Blurbusters's "moving photo" difference in motion blurr ULMB vs non-strobed 240Hz is noticable...in games not so much. If U can maintain 240Hz just go for it. Difference between non-strobed 240Hz and 144Hz is really noticable.
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Re: Monitor recommendation

Postby EmojilessPsykopat » 19 Jan 2018, 06:11

Alright, so this is what I'm thinking right now.

Since I don't have an option to demo any monitors, I think I should just buy something cheap and flexible to test things out. I would for now go for the cheapest available TN monitor that is 1080p 144hz G-Sync ULMB. I currently have 8700k with 1060 (yes I know and god damn the miner craze), so I would play most games at low settings to target 120-144fps.

The plan is to have this for half a year and test for myself if I'm sensitive to ULMB, if I prefer 144hz non ULMB or 120hz with ULMB. After that I would have a better idea what kind of ultrawide monitor I should upgrade to, so I'd probably sell this cheap one. Also in the meantime possibly Volta cards and the dream 200hz ultrawides will have come out, for more options.

The cheapest I could find is Acer XB240H for 230EUR. Would you guys recommend this? Are there any other options I should go for in a similar price range? Don't wanna pay too much cause this is just temporary.
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