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Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 30 Dec 2018, 19:42
by Chief Blur Buster
ericl wrote:In the previous example, there are no guide lines (hell, the images aren't even flat, they are taken at an angle) AND it looks like they were taken with a cell phone. In addition, they are also using fine tuning adjustments from another user monitor which might not be the best for his specific monitor.

Generally true, though I have found strobe crosstalk photography is much more forgiving for cellphones. Guide lines and pursuiting are not necessary when analyzing strobe crosstalk, with one major caveat: For static photography of strobe crosstalk, it is indeed important that the camera exposure is no more than 1 strobe backlight flash for accurate crosstalk photos, or we get additional duplicate images above and beyond. (Pursuit camera requires several refresh cycles to be exact)

Sometimes you can find evidence that single-exposure of strobe flash happened:
(1) The 144Hz one is definitively single-flash-exposure
(2) The 240Hz has indirect evidence of single-flash-exposure: Part of the 240Hz photo is dark (camera sensor rolling scan artifact) which is excellent evidence of single-exposure photo because if it was multi-exposure, there would not be a dark section. Indeed, the dark section and rolling scan behaviour of a camera sensor does provide some moderate distortion, the amount of strobe crosstalk that I see when zooming in, looks reasonably accurate representaton of blur reduction on 240Hz -- strobe crosstalk is worse at 240Hz than for 144Hz. Also, it is possible the LG monitor overdrive is not adjusted in an optimal way for its blur reduction.

There's a possible error margin in these photos, but the artifacts I see, deem them reasonably accurate-enough photographs for comparative purposes, at least from my own educated analysis due to my familiarity with photography artifacts confirming how the photographs were taken. Albiet subject to sensor rolling-scan distortions and minor deviations from WYSIWYG, it's a roughly accurate approximation of the rough amount of strobe crosstalk found at default settings. I have troubleshooted user setups this way before, with my photograph-analysis smarts.

Also, cellphones can still easily function with amateur pursuit photography for free (without a rail), see new thread including iPad camera pursuit that I have posted.

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2018, 14:55
by nanashi31
After my 3 month adventure in search for a good 240hz monitor these are my findings and i hope they can help . I started with Asus xg258q and noticed some strange vertical lines that appear when i was doing fast movements in Battlefield. After replacing cable/gfx card and did some research i found out that it was a common problem and it was more pronounced the lower the hz used, witch was true in my case since GTA on PS4 was much worse .It was so bad that i almost felt like i was behind prison bars whenever i moved. So after that i went for the 25 inch 240hz Acer counterpart kg251 with.......same results. Switched to Alienware aw2518h and the same problem , no matter the cable or Amd/Nvidia card. They seem to use a panel from the same manufacturer if i am not mistaken .The only monitor i tested without the issue was LG 27gk750f-b.
I only have one question . Does this problem not bother people that like those 25 inch panels? For me it was a dealbraker for sure and was taking away from my experience.
Also, this issue was present in other recent 144 hz TN monitors . And the only 100% way to avoid it was to go IPS . For me IPS isn't an option since the response time gives me a headache .

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2018, 15:09
by Chief Blur Buster
nanashi31 wrote:After my 3 month adventure in search for a good 240hz monitor these are my findings and i hope they can help . I started with Asus xg258q and noticed some strange vertical lines that appear when i was doing fast movements in Battlefield. After replacing cable/gfx card and did some research i found out that it was a common problem and it was more pronounced the lower the hz used, witch was true in my case since GTA on PS4 was much worse .It was so bad that i almost felt like i was behind prison bars whenever i moved. So after that i went for the 25 inch 240hz Acer counterpart kg251 with.......same results. Switched to Alienware aw2518h and the same problem , no matter the cable or Amd/Nvidia card. They seem to use a panel from the same manufacturer if i am not mistaken .The only monitor i tested without the issue was LG 27gk750f-b.
I only have one question . Does this problem not bother people that like those 25 inch panels? For me it was a dealbraker for sure and was taking away from my experience.
Also, this issue was present in other recent 144 hz TN monitors . And the only 100% way to avoid it was to go IPS . For me IPS isn't an option since the response time gives me a headache .

You're referring to the LCD inversion artifacts that are commonly found in TN panels (single-pixel checkerboard / vertical / horizontal lines artifacts). It is an issue of many fast TN LCDs, it doesn't bother me if I am viewing from far enough away, but I understand that many are sensitive to this.

It does bother many people -- just not all.

This is indeed a pro of the LG monitor, it's a little bit less prone to inversion artifacts. If you prefer less strobe crosstalk with strobed 240Hz, one may prefer the XL2546 but one prefer less inversion artifact in 240Hz, one may prefer the LG 27GK750-B. This is however, by anecdote only, not from official tests.

Some people are sensitive to flicker. Some people are sensitive to motion blur. Some people are sensitive to low-contrast/color quality. Some people are sensitive to brightness. Some people prefer to sit further away from the monitor (which eliminates their ability to see the inversion artifact). Some people are color blind (12% of population). Etc Etc Etc. Not all humans see exactly the same way.

Very hard to have cake and eat it too, when it comes to image quality attributes of 240Hz. Tradeoffs abound.

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:05
by nanashi31
This is why i eventually gave up on trying to find the best gaming monitor with nice colors ,high hz and good response time. I got myself the Samsung u28h750 for nice qled colors on a 4k tn panel. This makes it a nice balance between response time and image vibrancy and i use it for console and browsing/movies. I kept the LG for gaming and with some CRU tweaks with this forum's help i made the stutters go away and i also have nice input lag in original mode .
Plenty thanks for the information . Without it my pretentious eyes would not be satisfied .

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2018, 17:15
by Gregix
Maybe LG issue is just fw issue. Like mine was version 7, while viper has 6 as I reckon.
LCD panels I saw seems to be from one production period only. And it is q3 2017 I think. Do not wanna open box and check it again, is ready to go to seller.
My VT tricks seems too do not do nothing to crosstalk, only stutter(if any) eliminating.

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 31 Dec 2018, 19:31
by Kheri
Gregix wrote:Maybe LG issue is just fw issue. Like mine was version 7, while viper has 6 as I reckon.
LCD panels I saw seems to be from one production period only. And it is q3 2017 I think. Do not wanna open box and check it again, is ready to go to seller.
My VT tricks seems too do not do nothing to crosstalk, only stutter(if any) eliminating.


Yup, I suspect the version may be why there's a difference. There's clearly a large difference in any case, imo. If we knew, maybe we could bother LG about it.

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 07:30
by shekel
My LG is Rev.03, firmware version 3.07, manufactured 2017.09.11, but on the back of the monitor itself it says January 2018. I can't find any information what's the difference between 3.06 and 3.07.

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 13:15
by Chief Blur Buster
nanashi31 wrote:This is why i eventually gave up on trying to find the best gaming monitor with nice colors ,high hz and good response time. I got myself the Samsung u28h750 for nice qled colors on a 4k tn panel. This makes it a nice balance between response time and image vibrancy and i use it for console and browsing/movies. I kept the LG for gaming and with some CRU tweaks with this forum's help i made the stutters go away and i also have nice input lag in original mode .
Plenty thanks for the information . Without it my pretentious eyes would not be satisfied .

Keep an eye on OLED gaming monitors that hopefully finally arrives 2019-2020.
They may be able to finally provide the right mix of compromises.

Cheers,

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 09 Jan 2019, 14:17
by ginko
So guys i red whole tread but could you sum this up and tell me is this LG good for cs go? I have got amd card and i will use it only for cs go? Or is there now better options for 27 inch 240 hz monitor?

thx for information

*sorry for bad english

Re: LG 27GK750F-B - 240Hz, 27" 1ms Blur reduction, Freesync

PostPosted: 11 Jan 2019, 15:19
by A Solid lad
ginko wrote:So guys i red whole tread but could you sum this up and tell me is this LG good for cs go? I have got amd card and i will use it only for cs go? Or is there now better options for 27 inch 240 hz monitor?

thx for information

*sorry for bad english

https://youtu.be/IdtKbq3Omkw