Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

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Sporego
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Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Sporego » 23 Feb 2018, 02:49

These are the three monitors I'm currently looking at ~375$ USD

ViewSonic XG2530: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DTCPP3

Alienware AW2518Hf: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0733YCKM5

AOC AGON AG251FZ: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075RHGNQB

Primary Reason for this purchase is: CSGO

240hz For playing CSGO, I practice 5 times a week with my team. Spend alot of my other free time watching demo's and working on my own gameplay.

I understand I can get 1440p and a more "balanced" monitor if I don't go for 240hz. I want 240hz I am sure of it.

I used this website to compare my options and I noticed they have the same panel.

https://www.displayspecifications.com/e ... /f9ac494c4

Panel: AU Optronicsm M250HTN01.0

However the ViewSonic monitor has a higher Dynamic contrast??? 120M:1 vs 50M:1 (Is higher value better? Does it even matter?)

And I noticed the AOC monitor has the lowest average input lag 5ms compared to ViewSonic while the Alienware doesn't have a value for input lag.

Currently I'm leaning towards the AOC AGON AG251FZ.

Opinions? Suggestions? Perspectives?

I would really appreciate any response.

Rig: i7-7700k + GTX 1080 TI

Sporego
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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Sporego » 23 Feb 2018, 04:13

So I did more research and concluded that I shouldn't buy the AOC AGON AG251FZ because of frameskip. I have a GTX 1080TI.

Now I am comparing the AW2518Hf and the XG2530.

Everything about the ViewSonic XG2530 is awesome except one reviewer said it didn't have as low as an input lag as he wanted???

I'm so confused. So much contradicting information out there and I can't seem to make a decision.

Also I heard that for the CSGO Major Eleague used the AW2518Hf?????

I looked at the other monitors that are 240hz and they seem to be out of my price range T.T

Sporego
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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Sporego » 23 Feb 2018, 04:43

Did more research

I only found 1 website which said the aw2518hf has an average input lag of 5 ms.

I found a bunch of websites saying the ViewSonic XG2530 has an average input lag of 8ms.

I know the ViewSonic might have decent color reproduction compared to the AOC AGON AG251FZ?

I'm having such a hard time getting information on the Alienware Monitor...

ATM I'm really considering the ViewSonic XG2530 seems to have decent colors,but I am worried about the 8ms inputlag?????

Maybe the aw2518hf because of 5ms input lag vs 8???? How are the colors on the aw2518hf??

Like I'm getting people saying 8ms Input lag is like no difference and other people saying 8ms input lag = miss your shot.

Can I get some opinions that have reasonable evidence with explanations. My reaction time as a human being is 120ms. How the hell do you feel the difference between 3ms and 8 ms????????

ericl
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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by ericl » 23 Feb 2018, 13:17

I wouldn't trust anything from that website. Seems they are just pulling what the manufacturer says... and if it's the same panel, then they should both be equal.

AOC has a reputation for making really cheap stuff.

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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2018, 13:33

Different websites use very different lag test methods (simply because the lag measurement of begin/end is different between different sites), so I would only compare lag test results of the same site.
  • Milliseconds are still important even if you don't "feel" them!
  • You do not necessarily feel 8ms but it is important in "cross-the-finish-line" events.
  • Just like Olympics 100 meter sprints, milliseconds can matter.
  • In CS:GO, you go around a corner.
  • You and your enemy see each other at the same time.
  • You both have the same reaction time.
  • Both of you frag each other at the same time.
  • The person with 8ms less display lag is more likely to win because 8ms is subtracted from your reaction time.
If you are playing only casually, just for fun, it's not important below around ~10ms or thereabouts. Don't worry.

BUT....if you're playing to win, in elite leagues, then.....unquestionably, even a single millisecond matters. Just like a 100 meter olympics race, a single millisecond can mean a winner versus loser -- you and your enemy are racing each other to the first frag in simultaneous-draw situations.

Certainly, tick granularity (64 tick and 128 tick) plays a role in trying to equalize the playing field. But there's always rounding-off errors. And servers don't have any knowledge of how low-lag your display is. So servers cannot compensate for different player's different display lag, so you're not getting any automatic handicap for your display lag savings. If you're reacting 4ms earlier (thanks to 4ms less display lag), you still got a 50% better chance of reacting 1 tick earlier in a 128 tick server.

Less display lag tips the statistical scale further into your favour. It's why mere milliseconds matter to professional CS:GO players playing in real-money eSports tournaments. You don't always feel the millisecond, but the millisecond helps statistically increase the chances of winning those simultaneous-draws and such. You definitely want to shave as many milliseconds as possible if you're trying to win real money in CS:GO tournaments -- if you're that type of super-competitive elite player, we understand why you'd want to shave a few milliseconds off your rig lag.

Blur Busters also commissioned a researcher to write an article about human reflex of competitive players, see Input Lag & The Limits Of Human Reflex, a Blur Busters guest article by Marwan Daar (Aka spacediver). It is a 4-page article (read all pages).
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Sporego
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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Sporego » 23 Feb 2018, 14:01

ericl wrote:I wouldn't trust anything from that website. Seems they are just pulling what the manufacturer says... and if it's the same panel, then they should both be equal.

AOC has a reputation for making really cheap stuff.
Thanks for the response ericl. I know I'm not going to go with the AOC monitor because there is a frame skipping issue with nvidia cards.

At this moment I am deciding between the ViewSonic XG2530 and the AW2518Hf
Chief Blur Buster wrote:Different websites use very different lag test methods (simply because the lag measurement of begin/end is different between different sites), so I would only compare lag test results of the same site.
  • Milliseconds Matter
  • You do not necessarily feel 8ms but it is important in "cross-the-finish-line" events.
  • Just like Olympics 100 meter sprints, milliseconds can matter.
  • In CS:GO, you go around a corner.
  • You and your enemy see each other at the same time.
  • You both have the same reaction time.
  • Both of you frag each other at the same time.
  • The person with 8ms less lag will win because 8ms is subtracted from your reaction time.
Certainly, tick granularity (64 tick and 128 tick) plays a role, but there's always rounding-off errors. If you're reacting 4ms earlier, you still got a 50% better chance of reacting 1 tick earlier in a 128 tick server. Less display lag tips the statistical scale further into your favour. It's why mere milliseconds matter to professional CS:GO players playing in real-money eSports tournaments. You don't always feel the millisecond, but the millisecond helps you win. You definitely want to shave as many milliseconds as possible if you're trying to win real money in CS:GO tournaments -- if you're that type of super-competitive elite player, we understand why you'd want to shave a few milliseconds off your rig lag.
Haha I got the Chief to respond. Really appreciate your viewpoint. I agree 2-3 ms could be the difference of a battle won or a battle lost. However I took you recommendation to look at input lag tests from the same website and it seems the ViewSonic and Alienware have the same response time's when done by the same tester.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/alienware ... 117-5.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/viewsonic ... 164-5.html

So right now I am leaning towards buying a ViewSonic XG2530. I remember reading a post you made Chief and you said ViewSonic had a frameskip issue they fixed? I'm ordering one off amazon and I was wondering if the issue affect all ViewSonic XG2530's. You also said it was easy to fix, but in my ignorance I couldn't figure out if you meant this specific ViewSonic monitor is the one that had this problem?

Another thing I'm a little concerned about is I have a GTX 1080ti and the monitor wouldn't support g-sync? However, I'm not going to be using that anyway while playing CSGO right?

Let me know if I'm overlooking something when comparing the aw2518h and the xg2530. Really appreciate your guys willingness to read posts and helping me make the best decision.

I wouldn't be using freesync or gsync for highest level of competitive play in csgo right

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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2018, 15:07

XG2530 is not compatible with GSYNC. It's a FreeSync monitor.

All new XG2530s no longer have frameskipping. Been fixed. Even if it did, there's an easy CRU fix available that I developed -- that is available for both the XG2530 and AF251FZ (But you won't need it for any XG2530 ordered today).

For CS:GO specifically (since that game often likes to play at framerates higher than refresh rate), FreeSync and GSYNC isn't nearly as important as for other games like PUBG. But if you only play CS:GO, this is not nearly as important.

Remember that we're still early in the era of 240Hz monitors and the tech will keep rapidly improving.
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Sporego
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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Sporego » 23 Feb 2018, 15:11

Chief Blur Buster wrote: All new XG2530s no longer have frameskipping. Been fixed. Even if it did, there's an easy CRU fix available that I developed -- that is available for both the XG2530 and AF251FZ (But you won't need it for any XG2530 ordered today).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DTCPP3?ta ... st-20&th=1

You know anyway I can be sure this is the newer model? Yeah I understand I can't use FreeSync if I purchase it. Aside from FreeSync I should be able to use all the other features of the monitor?

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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2018, 15:12

The frameskipping was fixed almost a year ago (thanks to my help) already, so all the old stock got flushed out already. You can verify yourself though, with http://www.testufo.com/frameskipping

Note to test 240Hz frameskipping, you must use Chrome browser, and make sure nothing else is running -- browsers have a hard time staying precise at 240Hz but at least TestUFO automatically self-detects precision with a green "READY".
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Re: Help picking 240hz Monitor for CSGO? ~375$'s

Post by Sporego » 23 Feb 2018, 15:20

Chief Blur Buster wrote:The frameskipping was fixed almost a year ago (thanks to my help) already, so all the old stock got flushed out already. You can verify yourself though, with http://www.testufo.com/frameskipping (you must use Chrome browser).
Haha, Much thanks for your reply. Thanks for helping me clarify my ignorance. I will be purchasing the ViewSonic XG2530 with your link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DTCPP3?tag=blurbust-20

On the final note, Are there any resources or checklists I should go over when I first receive my monitor? Guides to setting up the color for the monitor?

ATM the first thing I will check is the frameskipping issue and then I will configure my monitor using this reviewers settings http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/viewsonic ... 164-2.html

I want to get whatever competitive advantage I can get from this monitor. So I'm doing as much HW/Research as possible. :P

Much Love <3 and Thanks, I really appreciate your help

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